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Roberto
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And the wife takes on the name of the husband, but not like in the U.S.
So, in Paula's example:
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So Jose Sanchez Navarro marries Maria Valdez Llosa |
Maria becomes Maria Valdez Llosa de Sanchez.
Another interesting example (like the preservation of the mother's maiden name through the son) of a "male-dominated and retrograde country" putting
more on women than our "enlightened and modern" one. 
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Roberto
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Maestro
Oso - I have always understood the usage of maestro to be precisely what you describe (e.g. the mason who did my floor in Bahia was commonly referred
to as Maestro Felipe) - until recently. A colleague of mine (Mexicano born in Tijuana) recently told me that calling someone maestro can be an insult.
The specific example he used was referring to cop that way - as if lowering him to a more menial status. Does this sound familiar in any way?
[Edited on 8-17-2006 by Roberto]
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Good primer. But what interests me more is the origin of family names and their relationship to certain ethnic groups, specifically, crypto-Jews.
Latino custom of the inclusion of a mother's maiden name is a tradition born out of Sephardic Jewish practice. |
Jewish practice associated with mothers and their names? You don't say - I'm stunned and surprised.
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Oso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
And the wife takes on the name of the husband, but not like in the U.S.
So, in Paula's example:
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So Jose Sanchez Navarro marries Maria Valdez Llosa |
Maria becomes Maria Valdez Llosa de Sanchez.
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Or Maria Valdez de Sanchez or Maria de Sanchez for short , until Jose croaks, at which time she becomes Maria Valdez Viuda de Sanchez or Ma
Vda. de Sanchez. Example: Tequila "Viuda de Romero".
And if Dolores Huerta marries Juan Cabeza, she becomes Dolores de Cabeza.
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Oso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
Oso - I have always understood the usage of maestro to be precisely what you describe (e.g. the mason who did my floor in Bahia was commonly referred
to as Maestro Felipe) - until recently. A colleague of mine (Mexicano born in Tijuana) recently told me that calling someone maestro can be an insult.
The specific example he used was referring to cop that way - as if lowering him to a more menial status. Does this sound familiar in any way?
[Edited on 8-17-2006 by Roberto] |
Yes. Although in this particular instance I totally disagree with the ranking in terms of usefulness to society. Maestro (a) is only for teachers,
holders of MA or MS degrees, musicians or skilled tradesmen. The correct form of address for most cops you will encounter is "Oficial", unless you
know his rank- Sargento, Teniente, Capitan, Comandante etc. Mexicans sometimes use "Mi Estimado" in an effort to suck up and negotiate a lower
"bite". Calling a cop "maestro" is a bad move, even if the SOB probably deserves the level of kitchen scullion (P-nche), This said, honest,
conscientious policemen do exist in Mexico and deserve respect. They're just hard to find and are rarely the ones who pull you over.
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Roberto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Oso
Yes. Although in this particular instance I totally disagree with the ranking in terms of usefulness to society. Maestro (a) is only for teachers,
holders of MA or MS degrees, musicians or skilled tradesmen. |
Una pregunta mas. So, if I am reading you correctly:
1. Cops are, supposedly at a "higher societal level" than teachers and musicians, etc., and you are lowering their social status by calling them
maestro.
2. "Oficial" - is that an officer or "holder of official appointment"?
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Dave
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As a musician and music educator, I have performed and lectured in Mexico, consistently referred to as 'maestro' and just as consistently, embarrassed
by it. Universally, 'maestro' is reserved, at least in the music world, for major orchestral conductors and (classical) musicians of the highest
order.
Is this an exclusive Mexican/Latin American tradition or typical of Spanish speakers everywhere?
Or perhaps PC fashion-speak gone mad? The colloquial use of 'diva' comes to mind.
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Oso
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Maestro is commonly used in all classrooms as simply "Teacher" as well as the more familiar but still respectful "Profe", short for profesor. It is
also used for orchestra conductors. I'm guessing that the cop interpreted it as the tradesman meaning. It's all a matter of context. In direct
address to a cop, "Oficial" just means Officer and "Maestro" just doesn't fit. In third person, an office holder is usually referred to as a
"Funcionario" or "Funcionario Publico" but not directly addressed by that term or "Oficial". Just plain "Se?or" is ok or if his title is known, he
could be addressed as "Se?or Secretario", "Se?or Director", etc. (Se?ora Directora etc.)
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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bajalera
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Naming systems can cause confusion in the other direction as well. I've got a strange little book--a bibliography of Baja California publications
compiled by a guy in TJ [can't provide its name since I'm not at home]--in which the authors of material in English are alphabetized under their FIRST
names.
One well-known Mexican historian, who was apparently aware of the confusion early-on in his career, solved it neatly with a hyphen: Dr. Miguel
Leon-Portilla has no problem.
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Here in Mexico, nicknames are more common than names and it's always great to use them in a friendly way...maestro is very common for someone who is
good at what he does whatever it is...and guys love it when you cll them jefe( pronounced hefay), everybody likes to be a jefe...but our favorite that
goes a long way with any kind of official or professional type like the guys in the land office etc....is MI ESTIMADO...which of course means my
esteemed friend...it is not very common but always gets a good reaction. And do remember that nicknames are NOT insults, mexicans just call it like it
is (it's easier than remembering everyones name) so don't get uptight if you get called gordo-fatty, pelon-baldy, flacca-skinny, guerra-white girl,
chaparro-shortie....etc....they don't get upset so why should you?
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Paula
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....they don't get upset so why should you? ....
I introduced myself to a carpenter who was working on our place and asked him his name. He said that everyone calls him Flaco, but his name is
Ernesto, and he wishes people would call him by his name.
I always call him Ernesto, but have needed to contact him several times, and when I ask his co-workers where Ernesto is, they don't know who I mean
until I say Flaco. He is an excellent carpenter, and I think he deserves to be called by his name.
When my friend calls her daughter gordita, and I say she is bonita, not gordita, the girl's face lights up.
MexicanMasks, anessay by Octavio Paz, sheds light on this issue.
[Edited on 8-20-2006 by Paula]
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