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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Ya locos, en la paz vivemos en un rancho paraiso, el puerto de illusion, pacenos y extranos tambien-todos estan eguales. Muy tranquilo, pero si, no
puede trabajar mucho aqui porque la paz es la paz-muy tranquilo sin tourists, no importe. Solo que usted tiene un coche y gas para manejar en el
malecon en la tarde.  
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Jesse: I will be in La Paz Nov. 1st and 2nd, will consider it my Loss if I do not get to see and talk to you! I will be traveling with my very good
Liberal Freind from the Seattle Area. U2u me you number and I will buy{At the Stand on Jalisco} that is!!
Skeet
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I hope to meet you two, also. Voy. Pero entiendo que no quieres comprar las coasa para el groupo. jaja Puedemos? Nos vemos. Pablo
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Marcos a Castro wannabe? Not so. The military and communist government suppresses and oppresses the people in Cuba and keep it so. Marcos has
spearheaded the movement for the RIGHTS of the people, demanding that the government give back the land they unlawfully stole - the complete opposite
of what Castro does.
When the people are successful in their roadblocks, hand to hand defensive combat, marches to government offices demanding answers, etc., they then
work to create their clinics, schools, milpas - essentially disenfranchising themselves from the oppressive government (which turns their backs on
them anyway) and create autonomous communities. Marcos has no intention to rule the indigenous. The indigenous of Chiapas have been pushed further
and further into harsh, unproductive highlands while being forced to give up the more favorable land to the government throught its military which, in
turn, makes deals with wealthy landowners and foreign multinationals (for oil, coffee, mining). Marcos is right - the same thing is happening in
Baja. Marcos is putting things in perspective for these Baja ejidos which need to learn how to deal with the land grab and stand up for their rights.
Viva Zapata.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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No, it's not
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Marcos is right - the same thing is happening in Baja.
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The ejidos are selling their land.
| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Marcos is putting things in perspective for these Baja ejidos which need to learn how to deal with the land grab and stand up for their
rights. Viva Zapata. |
Explain the chain of title. How did the ejidos acquire property? Whose rights were "stood on" ? It wasn't long ago that the ejidos couldn't sell the
land. They now have full rights. Viva Zapata! 
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
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Mood: its always good
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I think if posters are not mexican citizens we should not interfere with the mexican politicsjmho 
[Edited on 10-17-2006 by jimgrms]
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
Marcos a Castro wannabe? Not so. The military and communist government suppresses and oppresses the people in Cuba and keep it so. Marcos has
spearheaded the movement for the RIGHTS of the people, demanding that the government give back the land they unlawfully stole - the complete opposite
of what Castro does.
When the people are successful in their roadblocks, hand to hand defensive combat, marches to government offices demanding answers, etc., they then
work to create their clinics, schools, milpas - essentially disenfranchising themselves from the oppressive government (which turns their backs on
them anyway) and create autonomous communities. Marcos has no intention to rule the indigenous. The indigenous of Chiapas have been pushed further
and further into harsh, unproductive highlands while being forced to give up the more favorable land to the government throught its military which, in
turn, makes deals with wealthy landowners and foreign multinationals (for oil, coffee, mining). Marcos is right - the same thing is happening in
Baja. Marcos is putting things in perspective for these Baja ejidos which need to learn how to deal with the land grab and stand up for their rights.
Viva Zapata. |
Baja and Chiapas are completely different things. The locals here are selling their land, nobody is forcing them. If they want to stand up for their
rights, the first thing they should do is stop selling their lands. But that aint going to happen.
Marcos in my opinion, is a wannabe revolucionary, and not much more.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
I think if posters are not mexican citizens we should not interfere with the mexican politicsjmho
[Edited on 10-17-2006 by jimgrms] |
As a Mexican i think all sides should be discussing this topic. You guys live here and invest here and thus, you also have rights.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
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Jim,
Wrong. All people in mexico have the same rights, visitors, citizens and naturalized citizens. Everyone has a responsibility to maintain societal
standards, laws etc. You must participate and be involved to not do so is to contribute to the problems that exist. There is no reason not to be
involved in your city, schools, streets, politics etc. where possible. Consider, that others may look to you as an example whatever you do.
Pablo
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
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Mood: its always good
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Pablo i enjoy going to mexico, i proably know less than i should about the politics ,i don't think owning a vacation property in baja should give
me or ,anyone else the right to interfere in what boils down to being non of our buisness, jim
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Well being a homeowner and close to Lomas Centenario.( following quote)ne of those who spoke, Sergio Rodríguez Aroña, had trekked three hours from the
ejido El Centenario near La Paz to explain that in his neighborhood “100 percent of the communal land owners have been expelled from their lands… Now
the new owners are building a gringo colony called Lomas del Centenario and the former farmers are the pawns and construction workers for the
gringos.” The area this man is talking about is low lying hills that you know was not stolen, The area former farmers? rocky hillside. There are
houses being built and putting people to work in so much as years ago it was easy to find a worker not now anyone who Wants to work can and are they
prospering yes just look at what they drive.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Jim
It has nothing to do with spefically owning property. All people have the same rights and responsibilities while in mexico. No you can't vote but you
must participate and take responsibilty for your actions and you do have equal rights to others and corporations.
I am making the point becuase too many visiting people stand by and say oh well it's none of my business when they witness crimes, littering,
destruction of ecosystems etc. e.g. driving quads down the shoreline where animals are nesting and living and so on.
You simply need to change your attitude and begin to care. You say you don't know much about politics, well pay attention to be sure that your
behaviour and your neighbors is in line with current standards.
For example, everyone has a responsibilty to check where their donations go, where their taxes go, where their sewage goes, to protect their
surrounding ecosystems. Get involved in your community and participate, meet your representatives, check out the issues, they affect you and you
action or inaction is relevant to the final result.
Imagine if every non-citizen maintained your attitude? in mexico or abroad?
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Viva Marcos! Take it from the rich and giving to the poor. The poor always outnumber the rich! If I've got a couple more pesos/dollars than you,I'm rich. Shame on me.
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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Question...
Since when is the ability to develop land a benchmark of intellect and foresight?
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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I suspect that anyone who relies on expropriation to acquire a resort or hotel will not be able to operate one.
And, well, okay, I hear what the Subcomandante has to say, I'm waiting to hear from the Commandante.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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gnukid:
You Words fit the States:
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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When Castro goes belly-up, Cuba will be the next "destination of choice" for those seeking a home south of the border.Maybe Marcos can welcome all the boat people fleeing a free Cuba? Give 'em free housing, medical benefits, education and whatever else they might
need.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Skeet
I have lived in the community of la paz for almost 20 years I came because I studied and wrote about the long history of Baja California and Alta
California and it's interconnections. I work in the surrounding areas of BCS. Most of us here and in all of BCS are not from here historically. The
majority are from other parts of mexico and we all live/work in the ocean. For us ecology is a difficult path to evangelize but it is a committment to
the future. I understand the reasons behind staying out of others beezwax, the reasons for exploiting land and the ocean-people need to make a living
and feed their children-there is a history of practices that may have been considered fine before in terms of dumping garbage and sewage into rivers
etc... but now we have a growing community in BCS and we need improved standards and a plan for growth. Everyone who visits or lives here is a
participant together. However I am a firm believer that there are options. Never once have I not felt totally welcome as a political participant. I
am independent in my thoughts but the number of people who believe in working together in the community to protect the environment and get involved
are large. In fact I know of no one in my immediate circle among fisherman, guides, biologists, pacenos, maestros etc... who doesn't agree that we
must be heavily involved together, extranos y mexicanos to make sure that politicos and developers or traditional families and extranos don't abuse
our community, the land and our way of life for the future. I know it isn't a popular idea, perhaps not here on bajanomads but community action for
change, for improved practices in construction and ecology to protect what we have, to reduce our impact is common idealogy here in BCS. What is
ironic is that the pueblos look to visiting americans for examples of positive political action and good practices in construction, ecology etc...
whatever you do or don't do, you are an example for others.
I apologize in advance if you feel I am being confrontational. I don't have the patience: for people who who drive quads or cars along the beach
shorefront-it's illegal by the way and you will have your quad impounded--you are destroying the eggs and living creatures, or for people who build
homes without proper sewer systems, or for people who overfish-you will be caught. Nor do I have patience for the lies of politicians and
revolutionaries who malign mexicanos y extranos who have done so much for baja.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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It rarely happens
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
...for people who who drive quads or cars along the beach shorefront-it's illegal by the way and you will have your quad
impounded--you are destroying the eggs and living creatures, or for people who build homes without proper sewer systems, or for
people who overfish-you will be caught.
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That's why people continue to: Drive on the beach, not build to code and overfish.
If Mexico would just enforce its laws, this place would be paradise.
(For gabachos, that is.) 
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"If Mexico would just enforce its laws, this place would be paradise."
If PEOPLE would just obey the law and use common sense and not be so selfish, "paradise" would not be insidiously destroyed. Take personal
responsibility.
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