movinguy
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Mexico orders army offensive against drug gangs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061211/wl_nm/mexico_drugs_dc
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DanO
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Hmmm, I guess that's where all the Baja checkpoint guys went. Could it be a coincidence that Calderon's focusing on his home state first? Nah . . .
.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Iflyfish
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Ultimately it will take the removal of prohibition in the USofA to resolve this issue. That is what happened of course with Alcohol prohibion. Stop it
and organized crime is without it's money maker. However so are those engaged in the "War on Drugs" an multi billion dollar a year enterprise.
I am glad to see the Mexican Feds involved, that might help, though it won't of course resolve the problem.
These deaths and the attendant crime are having a significant affect on tourism in Mexico.
Iflyfish
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MrBillM
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Prohibition
Although brought up consistently by those who favor legalizing drug use, the Volstead act took advantage of some unique political circumstances to get
passed legislation which banned a substance that the majority of the population enjoyed, including older, conservative members of society.
The current use of illegal drug usage doesn't begin to approach the percentage levels of Alcohol use during Prohibition.
Additionally, the illicit Drug problem is much more than an economic question. To say that legalization would take away the profit motive and,
therefore, eliminate the crime problem ignores the negative psychological and physiological effects of many such drugs including cocaine, crack,
crystal meth, etc. The criminal and anti-social effects of those drugs are documented daily in the news media. To make them cheaply and legally
available to the entire populace would result in an exponential explosion of violent crimes.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Although brought up consistently by those who favor legalizing drug use, the Volstead act took advantage of some unique political circumstances to get
passed legislation which banned a substance that the majority of the population enjoyed, including older, conservative members of society.
The current use of illegal drug usage doesn't begin to approach the percentage levels of Alcohol use during Prohibition.
Additionally, the illicit Drug problem is much more than an economic question. To say that legalization would take away the profit motive and,
therefore, eliminate the crime problem ignores the negative psychological and physiological effects of many such drugs including cocaine, crack,
crystal meth, etc. The criminal and anti-social effects of those drugs are documented daily in the news media. To make them cheaply and legally
available to the entire populace would result in an exponential explosion of violent crimes. |
MrBillums,
Don't you think that the difficulty in availability and high cost of these drugs cause desperate users to resort to violent means to get them? Oh, and
more importantly, legalizing these drugs would eliminate the violent cartels' profit motive. (By abandoning the question format in this first
paragraph, I am given over to bloviation tendencies, plus, I get to invent a new noun).
Regarding the psychological and physiological effects, true these drugs are crazy-making and they facilitate a rapid decline in one's health,
especially meth. If they are left alone in their own exclusive social club, they would die off or kill each other. What do you object to about that?
Futhermore, those crazies who would commit violence because they are delusional would be isolated and therefore the crime rate would be reduced to
those isolated events.
The only other objection I see is the dogmatic, conservative taboo which is moralistic. I can't help you there.
Regarding military intervention, which is what this string is about, I believe they could certainly help in confronting the cartels. I doubt they
would be very effective in controlling the insidious addiction in the user world. That is a police matter, such as it is.
[Edited on 12-12-2006 by toneart]
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DanO
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Frankly, I'd like to see some empirical data on this, as opposed to theory.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
Frankly, I'd like to see some empirical data on this, as opposed to theory. |
Oh noooo! Don't take away our theory.
Start compiling. The empirical data is about to begin if the army is at all effective. Now dogma...that is difficult to overlay with facts.
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DanO
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As my old man used to say, "my mind's made up -- don't confuse me with the facts!"
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Hook
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I think I've told you my take on this before.
Legalize the recreational drugs. Take the billions earmarked for interdiction around the world and at hame and spend it on educating the public about
the dangers of these drugs.
If we can go from a country with 80% users of tobacco (a very addictive "drug") in the 50s to less than 20% since the 90s, we can acheive the same
results with drugs.
Of course, I think our government likes to have excuses to sprinkle our troops around the globe in areas where drug financed insurgents threaten our
multinationals, so it probably aint gonna happen any time soon.
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elgatoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DanO
As my old man used to say, "my mind's made up -- don't confuse me with the facts!" |
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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MrBillM
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Violent Crime
I, too, would like to see some comprehensive categorized "violent crime stats". The crimes I am referencing are not those where the apparent motive
was theft in order to sustain a habit, but crimes where the drug-induced psychosis has resulted in violent anti-social behavior resulting in property
damage or the wounding and death of others. I don't see those as isolated incidents and I'm sure the innocent victims didn't. You have to consider,
too, that the current illegality to a certain extent keeps a percentage of these people from mixing with the general populace. IF they were legal and
there was less fear of the law, they would be less inclined to remain covert.
Back in my younger days living on the Beach when LSD and other psycadelic drugs were in vogue, I saw numerous incidents where the influence of those
drugs resulted in violent behavior despite what others claimed.
Reading a couple of newspapers daily whenever I'm in El Norte and watching hours of Cable TV news, it seems that those sort of events are pretty
common. Given that legality would expose far more of the population to said drugs, it is not unreasonable to expect a significant increase.
In any case, neither side has sufficient data from unbiased sources to make an unassailable argument for or against. My position (and the current
majority position in the country) would be one of caution against changing the status quo.
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movinguy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
My position (and the current majority position in the country) would be one of caution against changing the status quo. |
Look what happened when Mexico tried to loosen drug penalties recently - that went over like a fart in church.
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capt. mike
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well..........there goes more great dirt pistas....what a crock.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Stickers
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Legalize the recreational drugs. Take the billions earmarked for interdiction around the world and at hame and spend it on educating the public about
the dangers of these drugs.
If we can go from a country with 80% users of tobacco (a very addictive "drug") in the 50s to less than 20% since the 90s, we can acheive the same
results with drugs.
Of course, I think our government likes to have excuses to sprinkle our troops around the globe in areas where drug financed insurgents threaten our
multinationals, so it probably aint gonna happen any time soon.
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I was just in Amsterdam for the first time in almost 30 years. They have legalized small amounts of marijuana in "coffee shops". Thirty years ago
when it was illegal drug dealers everywhere on the streets. Every ten steps you took someone asked if you wanted to buy.... Now there are non,
absolutely no drug dealers on the streets. The coffee shops have price fixed and government monitored drug sales. I saw nobody anywhere in Amsterdam
smoking in pubic, not once. The agreement is to smoke indoors and in "coffee shops" and it seems to be working. The coffee shops also sell fresh
squeezed juices and other heath food products along with coffee, tea and marijuana. I think it is successful and possibly keeping the alcohol
consumption down along with drunk driving accidents. Some also feel that if drug craving people can get a buzz with smoke they will not necessarily
go to the trouble to obtain harder drugs that are illegal.
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