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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64860
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by baja829
TO DAVID K -- OOPS - wrong side of Baja. There is a Punta Final south of Gonzaga on the Sea of Cortez side - that's the one I was referring to - it's
a favorite place and when I saw the name Punta Final, I just jumped in without thinking. Sorry |
Still have me confused here 829... I am talking about Punta Final, south of Gonzaga Bay. I know 2 people who have homes there... one is a Nomad. I do
admit I have not been right in the resort in many years, but you can see the lights on at night from Alfonsina's, so it's not abandoned. The satellite
image shows all the gringo homes still there as well as the grading work for the resort over the hill from Snoopy Island....
[Edited on 2-22-2007 by David K]
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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David K------
Under your "BEACH DRIVING" post above, you mention that "there are no turtle eggs in Baja Norte", or something like that. Hmmmmmmm, that may be so,
but there used to be a thriving turtle industry at the Bahia de los Angeles (which I KNOW you know), which no longer exists. Did these turtles back
then not breed and lay eggs along the beaches of northern Baja???
I don't know the answer, but maybe somebody on this "board" does.
Along the beaches of the Caribean I have heard that the beach driving has deffinitely destroyed Turtle egg habitat, so might this not be the same in
the SOC??
Just a thought.
Barry
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David K
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Here is Punta Final from space, note the homes. Scroll around to see the surrounding area or zoom out...Punta Final
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Under your "BEACH DRIVING" post above, you mention that "there are no turtle eggs in Baja Norte", or something like that. Hmmmmmmm, that may be so,
but there used to be a thriving turtle industry at the Bahia de los Angeles (which I KNOW you know), which no longer exists. Did these turtles back
then not breed and lay eggs along the beaches of northern Baja???
I don't know the answer, but maybe somebody on this "board" does.
Along the beaches of the Caribean I have heard that the beach driving has deffinitely destroyed Turtle egg habitat, so might this not be the same in
the SOC??
Just a thought.
Barry |
There are no beaches to drive on in L.A. Bay... to get to anywhere.
The turtles were being HUNTED to eat and for the beauty oil at L.A. Bay. The Turtle research facility now there shows that they migrate all the way to
Japan... and you know how the Japanese will eat anything from the sea! Hunting turtles for food (still done in Mexico) and being caught in Japanese
and other factory ship nets is what kills turtles, not a buggy or 4X4 with fat floatation tires.
The beach from San Felipe to Puertecitos is primarily what I am talking about... No turtles ever reported there that I know about and it has been
'open' for beach driving since the first Jeeps arrived after WWII!
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Cypress
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Not a turtle egg expert, but running over eggs with a vehicle will result in crushed eggs, egg layers, or most anything else. 
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larry
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Location: Orinda, CA
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I spent a few hours on the beach at Punta Final in late December---there a quite a number of vacation homes. A few of them seemed to be occupied at
that time. The entrance to the area had a gate (which was open and unattended) with a sign listing a fee for access to the beach.
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Barry A.
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David---
Ahhhhh HAAAAAAAH ---- I do not agree!!!! 
We have, for many years, OFTEN driven west and south on the beach from La Gringa to find good places to camp. Also at the far south end of the main
Bay we have OFTEN driven on the beach, again to find great places to camp. Many of these same places are now accessable from small access roads, but
that does not change the fact that we, and many others, DO drive on the beaches of the Bay of L.A. 
But, I admit that I know what you mean. I was just speculating. Perhaps turtles DID in fact lay eggs on the beaches of N. Baja but for some reason
(man??) no longer do that.
Something to think about.
Barry
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larry
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Location: Orinda, CA
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punta final
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larry
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Location: Orinda, CA
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y mas
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baitcast
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Location: kingman AZ.
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Relax
The late PaPa Fernandez told me even tho the bays and beachs of baja norte were full of turtles as far as he knew they did not use those beachs for
egg laying,this came from a man who hunted turtles and fished that region for many many years!
DK is not killing turtles running up and down the beachs
My conversations with him took place in the mid 60,s.........I was also lucky to enough to hunt with his son at night,my job was to man
the oars,I went with the old man on days to check the nets. I got the staight skinny guys right from the horses mouth.
BAITCAST
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Barry A.
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baitcast------
Papa Diaz of B of LA told me the same thing, many years ago. They (and papa Fernandez) certainly were the "hands on" guys, and should know.
Since I drive on the beach all the time it is nice to know that I am probably not doing much damage, especially not to the turtles.
I still find it curious that the turtles did not use the beaches to lay eggs, but the evidence is certainly not there to support that idea.
Thanks for your reply.
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David K
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Here's a photo of Papa Fernandez and Desert Rat from 1994.
Yes, as Papa was at Gonzaga since the very early 60's or sooner, HE would know all about turtles there.
As I speculated from what the turtle research people post at L.A. Bay, they do their nesting in Japan... at least one variety.
The turtles of the Todos Santos area beaches may be another type than those that swim into L.A. Bay???
The point of all this is beach driving near San Felipe isn't killing turtles.
Also, turtle eggs are burried and a tire would have to be stuck right over a nest to get down to them or bring weight close enough to damage them...
Because unless the tires are wide, and deflated, they will not float on top of the sand and that is the only way a vehicle can drive on the beach.
More harm will likely come from a pack of Sierra Clubbers hiking in with their boots sinking into the sand!
Finally, I do want to say that I have no interest in killing turtles (specially if they are too small to eat), so I would be against any humans
walking or driving over nests when there are eggs in the sand.
I suggest all the effort should be put into publishing CONFIRMED egg laying beach locations, like on a map and the dates the eggs are in the sand
(laying to hatching).
How about signs around the perimeter of nesting sites asking everyone to stay out between those dates?
Let's promote something that actually does some good, not just close another part of our planet to mankind as a power play.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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David-----
----you seem to single out "Sierra Clubber's" in your post-------do Sierra Clubber's have different boots than "normal" people???
But seriously, I agree with what you say here--------positive steps that ALL can understand to warn of "proven" depredation to wildlife would be VERY
helpful, if needed.
It probably is not needed, in this case.
Barry
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Cameron
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Registered: 10-12-2004
Location: Todos Santos / Seattle WA
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More Beach Driving/Turtle Stuff...
RE: Turtle Habitat and Tires...
(From an earlier post) "..turtle eggs are buried and a tire would have to be stuck right over a nest to get down to them or bring weight close enough
to damage them."
The turtle protection folks in Baja Sur ("Asupmatoma") have stated in their literature that the biggest vehicle-related threat to turtle eggs is not
crushing by tires, but compaction of the sand. According to them, if the sand has any moisture in it the compaction from the weight of the vehicles
makes it impossible for hatchlings to dig themselves out, and very difficult for those attempting to lay eggs to dig a nest deep enough to escape
predation.
As a side note to this whole "driving on the beach" discussion, I've got to say I'm surprised at how heated some of the responses to my original query
have been. I have to admit, I've driven on the beach myself in the past, and I probably will in the future. I don't have a problem with beach driving
when there's no other option available, but I do think it's probably a bad idea to do it "..just because that is fun.".
The fact is that it IS illegal. It is not "..closing (sic) another part of our planet to mankind as a power play.", it is the law.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for the opinions of other Nomads here, and I do not mean to say "I'm right and you're wrong" in any way. I
didn't mean to hijack the Punta Final thread either. I just wanted to know what other Nomads thought. Perhaps this subject deserves it's own thread.
Anybody???
Suerte!.. Cameron
More Turtle Info: http://www.mexonline.com/tortuga.htm
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David K
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I am glad we can learn things here and exchange thoughts...
I would agree with this: "...but I do think it's probably a bad idea to do it "..just because that is fun.". "
I think beach driving to get someplace that no roads get to or to perform a task, like launching a boat or retrieving a fisherman's net catch is and
will always happen. I am glad to learn that it is the compaction of wet sand by vehicle weight that can cause the little guys to have a problem and
eggs are not being crushed, as stated by someone.
Facts, not emotion are what will convince people the best!
Confirming no turtle nesting ever discovered in the northern Baja beaches is also good news!
Have a great evening Nomads!
[Edited on 2-23-2007 by David K]
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ursidae69
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cameron
As a side note to this whole "driving on the beach" discussion, I've got to say I'm surprised at how heated some of the responses to my original query
have been. I have to admit, I've driven on the beach myself in the past, and I probably will in the future. I don't have a problem with beach driving
when there's no other option available, but I do think it's probably a bad idea to do it "..just because that is fun.".
The fact is that it IS illegal. It is not "..closing (sic) another part of our planet to mankind as a power play.", it is the law.
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Ya know, I feel sort of bad that my post started this off-topic discussion, but at the same time I learned something. Thanks for all the posts on
this topic.
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burro bob
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For a list of turtle nesting site you need to contact PROFEPA. While Papa Fenandez and Papa Diaz are good sources of info they should not be
considered definitive.
I asked some of my friends here in San Felipe about turtle nesting sites. They all said no nesting but lots of turtles.
While many people do and will always drive on the beaches they are in fact closed to motor vehicles. This law is obviously not enforced on a regular
basis.
burro bob
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Skipjack Joe
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Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Nature abhors a vacuum
| Quote: | Originally posted by ursidae69
Ya know, I feel sort of bad that my post started this off-topic discussion, but at the same time I learned something. |
Yeah, it looks as though the upwelling in the Midriff area creates water temperatures that are unfavorable for spawning in the upper Cortez. Fine for
large turtles (we saw one at Calamajue last summer) but not so good for egg hatching or new born turtles.
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