BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Electric or Air lockers which is better?
Nomads just looking for some advice,Im in the need of lockers for my 1500 RAM 4x4.Any advice will bee taken in consideration. Im leaning towards ARB
Lockers.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
|
|
|
MICK
Nomad
Posts: 499
Registered: 11-12-2003
Location: Rio Hardy
Member Is Offline
Mood: livin the good life on the river
|
|
Ken. I have arb lockers on my ranger. The newer 3 piece seem to work fine. But if I had my choice I would look into ox lockers they are manual You'll
have to see if they make them for your application. Over the years I have had a few problems like air leaks or broken lines. The locker themselves
have been great. They were worth the money for sure.
Good Luck Mick
Getting there is ALL the fun!
Ok being here is fun to
|
|
|
BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mick I been toll by a some friends about hav ing problems with electric lockers in cold weather,thats why I was leaning towards air ones.I think if
you keep your lines and compressor check all the time,shouldn't be no problem...
Any body with dodge rams w/ lockers I will like to hear from you guys,maybe somebody like sharksbaja...
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
ARBs or ERBs?
Personally I think the air lockers are a better option. Clever installers can utilize the air compressor for multiple tasks
Also they are more serviceable, especially if you are out in the boonies. The system does carry more wear-prone parts however but are easier to make
or obtain.
The electric lockers for which you may have trouble getting parts in a pinch are going to be next to impossible.
The other issue relates to the specific axles in your truck. You need to look at your spec sheet then determine if they are even available for your
frt & rr setup.
Before you tear everything apart make sure they will fit because you may not have Dana axles. In fact I don't believe your vehicle does but you need
to chk carefully.
http://www.neapco.com/pdf/eaton_differential.pdf
I heard rumors Eaton was to manufacture them for newer Dodge. Perhaps you should emai them and see.
Let me know what you find out.
Merry Christmas!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
Nomads just looking for some advice,Im in the need of lockers for my 1500 RAM 4x4.Any advice will bee taken in consideration. Im leaning towards ARB
Lockers. |
ARB air lockers are the way to go. They give the best of both worlds - standard driving when unlocked, and full locking when engaged.
|
|
|
Pappy Jon
Nomad
Posts: 494
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Wrong side of the Continental divide.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Temp rising.
|
|
I have an ARB in the 4Runner. I like it, but I can't figure out where the leak is.
"The association of flowers and warm-blooded love is more than a romantic convention; it is based upon one of the great advances in the evolution
of life." Ed Abbey
|
|
|
BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thanks everybody for the advise, My truck is a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500(half/ton).with the 5.7 HEMMI w/75,000 miles one it probably half of those are Baja
miles.I do not know what came with the truck(Dana amc Dif).so I will start by looking into that,and then I can start searching for the lockers that
fits my truck,right now Im just planning to do the rear dif.
And Sharks I still like the ARBs Hopefully they make them for my truck.
Feliz Navidad
Merry Xmas,to all Nomads
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
Remember like Roberto says that some units will not convert/revert your system back to a limited-slip arrangement. Limited slip has an advantage on
hard surface roads and many folks prefer it to full-time posi-traction.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
I made a quick trip to the Dodge dealer (Mile of cars),wich is two blocks from where I live.And let me tell you that I found out alot of things about
my truck,but thats another story,back to the topic.My truck comes with Anti spin CORPORATE 9.25 LD REAR AXLEand205MM HD FRONT AXLE,what ever that means.And with a 5 spd tranny(5-45RFE)auto w/ON THE FLY MANUAL TRANSFER CASE w/ axle
ratio of 3.55 they don,t expecify if is for rear or front dif.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
|
|
|
TacoFeliz
Nomad
Posts: 266
Registered: 7-22-2005
Location: Here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Exploratory
|
|
Had ARBs front and rear on a Jeep CJ-7 and loved them (300,000+ miles). Snagged front air hose on brush and sticks several times and ripped the hose
off the fitting. No big deal. Now have Toyota factory electric locker on wife's FJ Cruiser and it works equally well after 37,000 miles. (Quietly
saving $$$ to put ARBs on the '04 Tundra when she's not looking)
For sure, your front and rear diffs are both the same ratio. Anti-spin is the Dodge name for a limited slip differential, a clutch pack based
solution to 'sort of' lock the differential. Some LSDs work better than others, none work as well as a real locker, and all of them wear out long
before a locker or a stock open differential.
|
|
|
rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have had ARB lockers on my '97 Powerstroke for 7 years now. When they work, they are wonderful, but CONTINUAL internal leakage and breakages in the
diffs.
Everytime I get them fixed, another $500 . . . Sharksbaja inhabits a different mechanical universe to my own limited skills - if they break out there,
tough luck.
I would NOT recommend them - the newer mechanical or electrical lockers seem to be better bets.
|
|
|
bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
|
|
I looked at the OX website - looks like a lever is added in the cab to operate them.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
|
|
cpg
Nomad
Posts: 262
Registered: 4-10-2006
Location: Livermore, Ca.
Member Is Offline
|
|
On a larger vehichle I would run a detroit locker.
|
|
|
Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by rob
I have had ARB lockers on my '97 Powerstroke for 7 years now. When they work, they are wonderful, but CONTINUAL internal leakage and breakages in the
diffs.
Everytime I get them fixed, another $500 . . . Sharksbaja inhabits a different mechanical universe to my own limited skills - if they break out there,
tough luck.
I would NOT recommend them - the newer mechanical or electrical lockers seem to be better bets. |
I was relating to the external assembly.
Here is an explanation I found:
4.1 Brief description of traction aiding devices
For people who spend a lot of time off road open differentials are unacceptable. However, as with most things in life, gaining more offload traction
involves tradeoffs in cost or on-road performance. What all traction adding devices do is limit the split of power between the pair of wheels on an
axle. This allows more power to go to the wheel that grips, but can cause increased tire wear and handling problems.
7.4.2 List of factory available LSDs
John Donovan: The factory LSD is the Dana trac-loc which uses clutch packs to bias the torque split between the wheels. As factory systems go, this is
one of the better ones out there and for people who only occasionally go off highway it really is a good choice. If you are doing a factory order, its
only a $250 option, and after the fact it will cost 2-3 times as much.
7.4.3 List of aftermarket LSDs/lockers John Donovan:
From the after market there are several types of LSD/Lockers. The easiest to install is the lockright, and fairly inexpensive at $350 of lest for most
diffs.. The install can be done by the "shade tree" mechanic in a few hours and does not require resetting the ring & pinion gear. The lockright
allows a wheel to go faster than the drive shaft is turning it, but not slower, and provides a 50/50 power split. The problem is on street handling is
effected. The truck will tend to chirp tires in turns, and will also tend to go straight rather than turn. In low traction rain/snow if you do spin
the wheels the truck will tend to fish tail because both rear wheels are spinning.
The second option is a gear driven LSD, the most common being an Auburn. Unlike the factory clutch pack system there is nothing to wear out, and it
generally gives a better torque split between the slipping and gripping wheel. The cost is similar to the lockrights, but a professional install is
STRONGLY recommended because of the need to reset the ring & pinion. Installation will run $100-$300 depending on the installers ability to get
the ring & pinion set up correctly without too many retries.
The third kind is a hybrid open/locked diff. called an ARB air locker. Under normal operation the diff.. operates as an open, but when air pressure
(from a compressor) is applied and the diff. behaves like a fully locked differential, like the Detroit locker (see below). They are expensive at
$500, plus $200 for a compressor, plus $100-$300 to install... the general rule of thumb is a complete ARB system is $1000ish
The fourth kind of locker is the "true" locker, and is also sometimes referred to as a Detroit or Posi, after Detroit's posi-traction rear that first
showed up in some of the muscle cars of the 60's. When torque is put on the drive shaft, the diff. locks the right and left wheels together so they
MUST turn at the same speed. This is very problematic in turns when the wheels are driveling different diameter circles to go around the curve. Also
as you change throttle position you can cause the diff. to lock and unlock which results in under/over steer conditions. Also because of the locking
nature of the diff. tire wear is greatly accelerated. The cost is in the $400 range, plus install.
I've driven trucks with lockrights, track-locs, and Detroit's and there is a big difference between them. The Detroit is hard to beat off road, but is
hard to live with on road. The lockright is nearly as good offroad and is more live able on road, but is not as strong... something to consider if you
have a V10 or Cummins up front. The LSD is almost unnoticeable on road, and does help with traction. Sure its not as good as the other kinds of
lockers, but its MUCH nicer on highway.
7.4.4 Why you can't use an LSD in a front CAD system TBD
-----------
and this info :
Chris Siano at AutoSite.com provided the following info on axles:
Dana 44-F
Application: 1500 and 2500 4x4 Regular Cab, 1500 4x4 Club Cab (with
NV231HD an NV241 transfer case)
Capacity: 3,850 lbs
Type: Hypoid
Ratios avail 3.54,3.92,4.09
Ring gear Diameter 8.50
Pinion mount Overhung
Pinion shaft diameter 1.376" inner bearing
1.35" outer bearing
Differential Pinions Two
Axle Shaft material Low carbon Alloy
Axle shaft diameter 1.31" inner
1.34" outer
axle spline pitch 1.25"
Spring Centers 42.15"
Universal Single Cardian
Turning Angle 36 Degrees
Fluid capacity 4.8 pints
wheel bearing Tapered Roller
Tie Rod type Ball and socket
Tie rod diameter 1.25"
Tie rod thickness 0.156"
Ball centers 61.16"
housing pressed tubes
wall thickness .39"
Dana 60-F
Application: 2500 and 3500 4x4 regular cab, 2500HD and 3500 4x4
Club Cab (with NV241 and NV241HD transfer case)
Capacity: 4,850 lbs
Type: Hypoid
Ratios avail 3.54,4.10
Ring gear Diameter 9.75"
Pinion mount Overhung
Pinion shaft diameter 1.63" inner bearing
1.25" outer bearing
Differential Pinions Two
Axle Shaft material Low carbon Alloy
Axle shaft diameter 1.31" inner
1.34" outer
axle spline pitch 1.5"
Spring Centers 42.15"
Universal Single Cardian
Turning Angle 36 Degrees
Fluid capacity 7.6 pints
wheel bearing Tapered Roller
Tie Rod type Ball and socket
Tie rod diameter 1.25"
Tie rod thickness 0.22"
Ball centers 60.15"
housing pressed tubes
wall thickness .50"
Chrysler 9.25
Application: 1500, 1500 4x4 All Engines
Capacity: 3,900 lbs
type semi-floating
Ratios 3.21, 3.55, 3.92
Ring gear diameter 9.25"
Ring gear face width 1.375"
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.88" inner
1.31" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing 1.62"
axle spline pitch 1.29"
Spring Centers 44.50"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 4.75/4.75 pints
wheel bearings Cylindrical Roller
Chrysler 9.25
Application: 2500HD, 2500HD 4x4, 2500, 2500 4x4 w/V8 Engines and auto
transmission (if Sure-Grip is ordered, Dana 60 is used, except for Ram
2500 4x4 models with 3.55 gear ratio.)
Capacity: 5,500 lbs
type semi-floating
Ratios 3.55, 3.92
Ring gear diameter 9.25"
Ring gear face width 1.375"
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.88" inner
1.31" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing 1.70"
axle spline pitch 1.29"
Spring Centers 44.50"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 4.75/4.75 pints
wheel bearings Cylindrical Roller
Dana 60
Application: 2500 HD, 2500 HD 4x4, 2500, 2500 4x4 Manual
Transmission w/V8 engines.
Capacity: 6,200 lbs
type Full-floating
Ratios 3.54, 4.09
Ring gear diameter 9.75"
Ring gear face width N/A
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.63" inner
1.25" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing none
axle spline pitch 1.31"
Spring Centers 44.50"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 6.3/7.3 pints
wheel bearings Tapered Roller
Dana 70
Application: 2500 HD, 2500 HD 4x4, 8.0L V10 and Diesel w/Auto
Transmission.
Capacity: 6,500 lbs
type Full-floating
Ratios 3.54, 4.10
Ring gear diameter 10.5"
Ring gear face width N/A
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.75" inner
1.25" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing none
axle spline pitch 1.375"
Spring Centers 43.26"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 7.0/7.8 pints
wheel bearings Tapered Roller
Dana 80
Application: 2500 HD, 2500 HD 4x4, 8.0L V10 and diesel w/Manual
Transmission.
Capacity: 7,500 lbs
type Full-floating
Ratios 3.54, 4.10
Ring gear diameter 11.0"
Ring gear face width N/A
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.75" inner
1.25" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing none
axle spline pitch 1.375"
Spring Centers 43.26"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 6.8/10.1 pints
wheel bearings Tapered Roller
Dana 80 Dual Rear Wheel
Application: 3500, 3500 4x4 All Engines.
Capacity: 7,500 lbs
type Full-floating
Ratios 3.54, 4.10
Ring gear diameter 11.0"
Ring gear face width N/A
pinion mounting overhung
pinion shaft diameter 1.75" inner
1.25" outer
Differential pinions two
axle shaft material Induction Hardened
diameter at bearing none
axle spline pitch 1.375"
Spring Centers 43.26"
Fluid capacity (2/4WD) 6.8/10.1 pints
wheel bearings Tapered Roller
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
|
|
|
BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
ok thats alot information, but it doesn't help me to make my choise,the question will be is Corporate a brand or are they just plane chrysler dif.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
