perk
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-23-2008
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Loreto Dorado
Just returned from a great fishing trip to Loreto targeting Dorado. My fishing partner and I boated 13 fish to 40 pounds over 4 days.
The second day of the trip we were the second boat on a piece of sargasso. The first panga there was hooked up. We immediately got a double hook up on
a couple of nice fish. We were on them solidly and visibly, both off the stern, for about 5 to 10 minutes when Arturo's cabin cruiser pulled up and
got his client hooked up. The captain, Tito, then put the boat in reverse and backed over and sawed both our lines. My friends at about 20 yds and
mine at 30. At this point we yelled 'gracias' at him, he returned salutation with a double fisted finger.
Upon return to Port Loreto, we went to the worm Arturo's office and explained the situation. He told us he can't control his panguero's and to
'leave', then picked up his little cell phone and started dialing what he said was the police.
Arturo's 'fleet' probably kills more billfish than any other sport fishing agency North of La Paz. Never fish with Arturo's. There are easy to locate
respectable agencies and independents in Loreto. In fact, if you need a recommendation; send me an email.
Good fishing and be safe.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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I've fished with Tito...my friend the late Bill Simmons used him as a captain on his boat and thought the world of him. However, Tito and I were not a
good match, and we did disagree on releasing marlin. Recently a Loreto resident, and really good fisherman, posted some positive experiences fishing
on Arturo's cruiser with Tito at the helm.
Just a few days ago I read a post on a fishing website slamming a local captain I have used frequently, one that I consider one of the best in the
area. Go figure. Sometimes some captains and some services are just not the right match for certain people.
Now I don't mean to belittle your experience (and I know those things happen, especially around paddies) but posts slamming businesses and individuals
on the internet from first time posters are seldom well received. I've seen many on the fishing message boards and they often elicit unwanted and
unexpected replies. We have no idea who you are; you have no track record of posts. And while I do agree that there are alternatives to Arturo's
business, including some I would recommend over Arturo's, he does have the support of many satisfied customers over the years, and in any case I think
your characterization of him was unfortunate and did not help make your case.
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: hubimos llegado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Now I don't mean to belittle your experience (and I know those things happen, especially around paddies) but posts slamming businesses and individuals
on the internet from first time posters are seldom well received. I've seen many on the fishing message boards and they often elicit unwanted and
unexpected replies. We have no idea who you are; you have no track record of posts. |
It seems to me the facts speak for themselves. How many posts the individual has made is irrelevant. I'm sure you must be aware of a few posts by
supernomads+ that were not "well received." And if a particular post affords all of us some useful information, I don't believe having "no track
record of posts" really matters.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajamigo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Don Alley
Now I don't mean to belittle your experience (and I know those things happen, especially around paddies) but posts slamming businesses and individuals
on the internet from first time posters are seldom well received. I've seen many on the fishing message boards and they often elicit unwanted and
unexpected replies. We have no idea who you are; you have no track record of posts. |
It seems to me the facts speak for themselves. How many posts the individual has made is irrelevant. I'm sure you must be aware of a few posts by
supernomads+ that were not "well received." And if a particular post affords all of us some useful information, I don't believe having "no track
record of posts" really matters. |
The problem here is that we really don't know the facts. A person who has never spoken here has posted his perception of an unfortunate day. We have
no context from which to evaluate what he has said, and said in an inflammatory manner. It may (or may not) be that his perception and the facts are
not the same.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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I'm done with fishing down in Baja. Have limited experience in the Sea of Cortez,
but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something is missing. Fish!
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Klondike_Kid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 6-2-2008
Location: Just south of the North Pole.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Preparing for Eventuality
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There seems to be some information missing in the original post/complaint. It is not clear whether the angler and his pal were fishing in a guided
panga (although assumed) or in their own boat during their 4 days of apparently VERY successful fishing. It would seem to me that had I been in a
chartered panga that my skipper would have been the person "responsible" for making contact with the skipper of the other vessel and not the clients.
I've lived on the "world famous Kenai River" in Alaska for 27 years where 85-90% of 400 salmon fishing guides in boats work a mere 13 miles of lower
river. Add to that another 400 private angler boats during the peak in July and finding 30-50 boats in a single hole less than 100 yards long is not
unusual. And as you may realize, tying into a 50-60 lb. king salmon heading right into the midst of that chaos not only taxes the guide's ability as a
boat operator but all other boats as well for trying to be courteous and get out of the way if possible. Encounters of the negative kind do
occasionally occur but the anglers in guide boats remain calm (although sometimes dismayed by what occurred) while the guides take
care of the situation between themselves. Often if lines on other boats were cut to save a client's fish, the guide will seek out the other boat
after the fish is landed and repay the boat with replacement rigs/tackle. It sounds like the Mexican fleet may have a way to go for professional
courtesy if this complaint is valid.
On another note, if I had fished for 4 days and two of us came 3 dorado short of a full limit, coming to BajaNomad and "filing at complaint" as a
brand new member would be the last thing on my mind. On the contrary I'd be bragging my a** off and promoting my panga guide to give him more
business with perhaps a minimal mention of the "one bad scene" during the entire trip. Makes me very suspicious of the
original post as valid. And I've seen them all in 12 years of running my own outdoors/fishing website. Just my dos centavos.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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13 fish over 4 days? That's only 3.25 fish per day or 1.625 fish per angler per day. That's okay fishing at best. I would expect to catch my limit of
Dorado and maybe a yellowtail or 2. Maybe a nice big snapper.
Loreto is off my list for fishing spots.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Klondike_Kid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 29
Registered: 6-2-2008
Location: Just south of the North Pole.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Preparing for Eventuality
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Well fishbuck I guess I would have been spoiled by those numbers. Up here anglers are paying $185 to $250 per seat, four to a boat, for 5.5 to 9 hours
of Kenai fishing for a chance to catch one king salmon that may be as small as 15 pounds or up to a few in the 70's in the entire season with the
average between 30-40# in July. And the hours of fishing per fish? Based on the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game creel census and on-river surveys of
angler success, a Kenai guided angler this past week averaged 18 hours per guided caught fish. If you were on a six hour trip that would mean you
would have to pony up THREE trips worth of denaro for one fish....on average. Meaning 1 in 4 anglers in a boat will catch a fish.
And for non resident visitors they also pony up $20-145 for a non resident license and $10-100 for a king salmon stamp depending on how many days they
intend to fish them.
So that dorado trip would have put smiles on my face. 
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Klondike_Kid
Well fishbuck I guess I would have been spoiled by those numbers. Up here anglers are paying $185 to $250 per seat, four to a boat, for 5.5 to 9 hours
of Kenai fishing for a chance to catch one king salmon that may be as small as 15 pounds or up to a few in the 70's in the entire season with the
average between 30-40# in July. And the hours of fishing per fish? Based on the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game creel census and on-river surveys of
angler success, a Kenai guided angler this past week averaged 18 hours per guided caught fish. If you were on a six hour trip that would mean you
would have to pony up THREE trips worth of denaro for one fish....on average. Meaning 1 in 4 anglers in a boat will catch a fish.
And for non resident visitors they also pony up $20-145 for a non resident license and $10-100 for a king salmon stamp depending on how many days they
intend to fish them.
So that dorado trip would have put smiles on my face.
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Alaska is off my list now too!
If you fly all the way down here. Stay in a hotel etc. and only catch 1 or 2 fish a day I feel bad for you.
I think I'd spend my hard earned cash elsewhere.
My gut instinct is that Loreto just isn't doing enough to protect their fish from illegal activity. But I'm sure they still want your money.
Can you say "boat ride"
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
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Mood: mellow
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| Quote: |
Can you say "boat ride" |
Yeah, but it's a real pretty one, if the winds stay down, although a bit "HOT".
Forgot: Arturo's runs one of the better shops in town.
Larger hotels use his pangas, with pick-ups right of the beach hotels. Must be a reason for this and a bad operation would not be it.
[Edited on 6-27-2008 by vandenberg]
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1372
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
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I will have to go with Vandenberg and the other skeptics on this one. In my experience, and I am on the water a bit, if there is a lack of courtesy
on the water out of Loreto it is generally on the part of gringo clients, who may or may not know how to handle themselves in close quarters with
other fishermen fishing around a paddy, and may or may not have the tackle and expertise to keep hooked fish away from other boats, and not the
Mexican captains. And the storming of Arturo's office. I'm trying to imagine what the purpose of that may have been if not to provoke a
confrontation.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I agree that this does not make a lot of sense. From reading the short description of the story, it does not make any sense whatsoever for anyone to
back over fishing lines to cut off fish. I have had that done when an inexperienced fisherman did not realize that I was trolling and came in behind
during the excitement of a boil and later I somewhat calmly told them of their errors. But for a charter boat captain to come in and cut off a couple
of fish makes little or no sense. Guess we need more info.
And Bill is fishing that area so much that if this were common practice, he would have witnessed this type of agression before.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Klondike_Kid
Check out the U2U in the upper right hand corner for information I have sent you.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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A mere suggestion: Go find your own Patty and stay away from all the Other Boats.!!
There are so many Thousands of Fish in the Sea North and South of Loreto , they are so easy to catch, it is hard to understand Complaints.
But we must remember that out there in that big wide wonderfull World there are the Weak Minded Naysayers who love to tell everybody that "The Sky is
Falling, The Sky is Falling.
Now is the time for North and South of Loreto you Fisherman. Go fish and catch your Limit and enjoy Life!!!
Skeet/Loreto
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perk
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 6-23-2008
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Not going to get defensive, I posted exactly what happened. I know I came in strong, I also know things get heated out there at times, but
this was different, hence the post. We were on a panga captained by Roberto, whom I've fished with for years. He did exchange words with Tito,
we then left the stop. All we yelled at the boat was 'gracias', several times I might add, but that was it. The cabin cruiser had a woman
and a child on board. The reason he was backing up was he had his client on a Dorado and was backing down on it. Backing over other's lines at +/-
20 yds, we were idling. Obviously lines get sawed all the time, no big, but this was blatant. Backing down on a Dorado.
As far as 'storming' Arturo's office. I told him what his captain had done e.g., flipping us off, he said, 'I can't control what my captains do' and
put his finger up showing me how one flips the bird, he left his finger up during a good portion of the conversation. He told me Tito is a young
captain and he can't control what a young captain does. Total bullchit, Tito's one of the long timers. Arturo lies for sport, fishes for business.
As far as the trip, we did have great trip, we also released 4 or 5 D, a Sail, at one point we had bait (not ours) clingging to side of our panga
cause there were so many Sails around us. Also saw a nice school of Rooster's that wouldn.t bite.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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It does happen!
Short True Story Factual without any Spin!
One day while Fishing Pt. Lobos for yellows, Alfredo Rameriez{May he rest in Peace} owner and operator of a Fishing Business in Loreto did about the
same thing. Knowing Alfredo most people put up with his sometimes agressive Behavior.
As "What goes aroud, comes around" this same person was coming in one day close to shore being a "Smart Alec" when he ran over a Swimmer the Prop
taking out a Part of the Swimmers Head.
Thanks to Don Rosendahl who had his Airplane and flew this injuried Swimmer to La Paz where the Doctors were able to save his Life.
Alfreado was told if he kept up his antics while on the water that he would become Fishbait! I never again saw him acting up while on the Water.
The Mexicanos have a way of taking care of trouble.
Skeet/Loreto
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Perk, that is a much better post with the information. I would agree, there should be no reason why he would "back down on" a jumping dorado.
Obviously your captain must have had some insight and understading as to what was going on.
Time to start carrying water baloons and big slingshots.
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Sparetimewanted
Junior Nomad
Posts: 82
Registered: 5-29-2007
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What is with you guys and not trusting a person's story just because he is new? That doesn't mean he hasn't been fishing in baja for years and years.
I can see if you don't believe a guy who makes an outrageous statement, but Perk's story is very believable to me.
I have fished with many charters in Baja, and have seen my share of "captains" who are in it just for the propinas. They could care less about
fishing regs or the other boats so long as their fare catches fish.
And for the one poster who thought perk was only looking for confrontation by going to the office to complain, perhaps you are a true "turn the other
cheek again and again" personalities. I prefer to think that maybe perk was trying to let the Arturo know that he has a loose cannon that may be bad
for his business, in hopes that this bad experience won't happen to anyone else.
Sounds like Arturo likes our money, but hasn't figured out that constructive criticism isn't a personal attack on a macho self-image.
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