fulano
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Mexican brain and capital drain
The Mexicans are voting with their feet:
http://www.nmsu.edu/~frontera/immi.html
| Quote: | IMMIGRATION
Immigrants or Refugees?
Pressured by violence and insecurity, a new wave of Mexican professionals is quietly making its way across the border to the United States in search
of a better life. Reflecting a variety of career goals as well as personal aspirations, the new immigrant wave illustrates how the deteriorating
public safety situation in cities like Ciudad Juarez is fueling capital flight and brain drain.
In Ciudad Juarez, legal sources report that business for assisting people in obtaining US immigration visas rose between 50-80 percent in the first
six months of 2008 in comparison to the same period in 2007. Especially in demand are the E-2 Investor, F-1 Student and TN Nafta Work visas, said
Ciudad Juarez attorney Jennifer Gutierrez. Small business owners, professionals, hair stylists, and students rank high in the list of people trying to
obtain the visas, Gutierrez said.
“Merchants want to invest their capital in the United States, and take not only their businesses over there but their families as well..” Gutierrez
said. “Out of desperation, they want to go to El Paso, one of the five safest cities in the United States, rather than remain in Juarez, one of the
most violent cities in Mexico.”
In order to get visas, applicants must prove they have a legitimate business in Mexico and sufficient money to invest in the United States, according
to Gutierrez.
For others, professional expertise could be their ticket to El Norte. For instance, the Texas state government currently recruits teachers from Mexico
to give instruction in the Lone Star State’s public schools. Julio, a 43-year-old engineer from Ciudad Juarez, is part of a group of 12 Mexican
teachers hired by Texas for the 2008-09 school year.
“When professionals reach a certain age it is more complicated to find work”, Julio said.
“ I am forced by necessity to keep growing as well as the conditions of insecurity in the city to look for more peaceful and safe places.”
Slammed by robberies, arson and vanishing business, restaurant owners and bar operators form another group trying to get out of Ciudad Juarez. Earlier
this month, a representative of a purported group of 20 restaurateurs announced his colleagues were planning to put up their businesses for sale and
move to El Paso if possible.
“We are leaving because we can’t live like this,” said Francisco Aguirre Silva, owner of Desesperados bar. “The authorities and the army have let the
population down and don’t provide security to us businessmen.”
Since the beginning of the year, an estimated 526 people have been murdered in Ciudad Juarez and the adjacent Juarez Valley. In one 24-hour period
between June 21 and 22, at least 16 people were murdered in Ciudad Juarez. And if the record homicide rate wasn’t enough to jolt the local population
into thinking twice about staying put, the border city has been struck by a wave of armed robberies, auto thefts and kidnappings.
For the moment, it’s difficult to determine the precise role of violence in encouraging emigration to the United States. One indicator is a sudden
upsurge in home sales in El Paso at a time of a depressed US real estate market.
Rodolfo Rubio, a demographer for the Colegio de la Frontera Norte, said people who migrate because of violence are often reluctant to discuss their
motives.
“We always make the relationship between migratory behavior and the labor market,” Rubio said, “but I believe we should move a step ahead and make the
connections that explain these questions.”
El Paso resident Blanca Angelica Parra is one immigrant willing to discuss the reasons she left Ciudad Juarez. Now an agent with the US Border Patrol,
Parra was once a police officer in Ciudad Juarez, but the mounting drug-related violence caused the young woman to step back and take a look at her
life. In 1995, she moved to the United States with her three-year-old daughter. “In Juarez, you get threatened if you arrest someone,” Parra said.
“They tell you they are going to kill you and your family.”
In addition to Ciudad Juarez, the flight of the professional class has picked up in Tijuana and Nuevo Laredo in recent years. All three cities have
been the scene of violent wars between drug syndicates. It’s almost certain that the violence-driven out-migration from the border cities represents
only a privileged layer of people desiring to leave under present circumstances. Lacking the resources or skills needed for legal migration to the US,
many low-income people remain trapped in violent neighborhoods where they hope a stray bullet or a gun-wielding thief does not come their way.
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Photog
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Excellent post! Thank you Fulano....
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Woooosh
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Is there any country in hostory that has survived this trend? The best are leaving the country, the country cannot protect its citizens and the
corruption just keeps on coming- no matter who says they are in charge. Social change can't happen when the best flee and the rest are afraind to
speak out, protest or even leave their homes. Mexico shoud just surrender to the USA before it becomes a full narco-state and countries start
breaking ties.
I've always told my American friends who feel overwhelmed by illegal immigration that the Mexicans who migrate north to their towns are the "hard
working middle-class", not the uneducated poor as is commonly thought. The mexican poor have their heads down working/scraping hard and are just
trying to make it through today. Now the well educated upper class are documented fleeing inlarge numbers too.
"It’s almost certain that the violence-driven out-migration from the border cities represents only a privileged layer of people desiring to leave
under present circumstances. Lacking the resources or skills needed for legal migration to the US, many low-income people remain trapped in violent
neighborhoods where they hope a stray bullet or a gun-wielding thief does not come their way."
Thanks fulano. People get the government they deserve. Cowards get the governments others choose for them- as histroy has clearly shown and as well
may be the case here.
[Edited on 7-3-2008 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
People get the government they deserve. Cowards get the governments others choose for them- as histroy has clearly shown and as well may be the case
here.
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It is a harsh reality played out many times over history as governments and their countries come , grow, and eventually for a number of
different reasons, succomb to entropy and die.
Democracy does not work when all power is surrendered by the people ... It is indeed a sad state of affairs.
Maybe this is a poor analogy but, look at the strugle in Columbia, it's been a long , hard road (financed by the US) and they may have reclaimed
at least part of their country .... with a few noteworthy rebel and drug loard problems.
CaboRon
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
People get the government they deserve. Cowards get the governments others choose for them- as histroy has clearly shown... |
Cowards? In Latin America, those "others" have all too often been the superpower to the north-- a force difficult to resist. Does that make cowards
out of Latin American citizens who try to form governments not to the taste of U.S. policy makers?
--Larry |
They are cowards because they refuse to fight for their country inorder to provide a safe and prosperous future for their families. Mexicans of
spanish decent are the conqueroros of Mexico, not the victims of the USA. Just becasue someone offers you something, you don't have to take it.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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MrBillM
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Hard-Working Immigrants ?
I keep hearing the line about the immigrants coming North just being hard-working family types looking for a better life, but it isn't explained how
the growing numbers of illegal alien prison inmates (up to 25 percent of the overall numbers in U.S. prisons) fit into that scenario.
What is it that they were working hard at ?
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k-rico
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The article that was originally posted said "12 Mexican teachers hired by Texas for the 2008-09 school year".
12 in one year
not a large number
I wonder how many professionals have left Mexico because of the narco violence.
Perhaps more hypebole from the press. Perhaps not. Odd that the only hard number offered is so small.
Who wrote these lines, the author of the post, or the author of the article?
"Mexican brain and capital drain"
"The Mexicans are voting with their feet:"
Come on Nomad crime beat reporter Fulano, let's have some facts. Mexico is a rather large country. Are the numbers big enough to justify the phrase
"brain and capital drain"?
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The article that was originally posted said "12 Mexican teachers hired by Texas for the 2008-09 school year".
Come on Nomad crime beat reporter Fulano, let's have some facts. Mexico is a rather large country. Are the numbers big enough to justify the phrase
"brain and capital drain"? |
Did you happen to read this part of the article?
'In Ciudad Juarez, legal sources report that business for assisting people in obtaining US immigration visas rose between 50-80 percent in the first
six months of 2008 in comparison to the same period in 2007. Especially in demand are the E-2 Investor, F-1 Student and TN Nafta Work visas, said
Ciudad Juarez attorney Jennifer Gutierrez."
If you would like to post a counter argument, that's what this message board is for.
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Eugenio
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"Especially in demand" isn't a number.
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eugenio
"Especially in demand" isn't a number. |
"50-80" percent is.
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Eugenio
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50-80 refers to "business" (what is that? - dollars?/numbers?/individuals? - do YOU know?) for visas - not for visas for "professional" people - which
is the theme of the article.
Maybe the violence in CD Juarez is compelling "everyone" in Mexico to seek visas. Maybe there's something else going on.
Use your head Fulano - this is a wide range thrown out by unspecified "legal sources" - do you know what the "sources" are? A couple of friends over
beer maybe? L - I don't know. And neither do you.
Give us some numbers with references man.
Or don't.
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MexicoGringoGuy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The article that was originally posted said "12 Mexican teachers hired by Texas for the 2008-09 school year".
Come on Nomad crime beat reporter Fulano, let's have some facts. Mexico is a rather large country. Are the numbers big enough to justify the phrase
"brain and capital drain"? |
Did you happen to read this part of the article?
'In Ciudad Juarez, legal sources report that business for assisting people in obtaining US immigration visas rose between 50-80 percent in the first
six months of 2008 in comparison to the same period in 2007. Especially in demand are the E-2 Investor, F-1 Student and TN Nafta Work visas, said
Ciudad Juarez attorney Jennifer Gutierrez."
If you would like to post a counter argument, that's what this message board is for. |
I Would!
First of all 50-80 percent is far from officially tallied, for gods sake there a 30% gap between the numbers.. It was some person being interviewed
and they pulled that number out of their &%$ ,so to speak..
Second of all, I have no problem with Students going to the US to get an education, so they can return here one day, EDUCATED and change things!
As Far as I know, the USA only allows a certain number of Imagrints each year , PERIOD.. and as far as I know every year they reach that capicity or
Maximum!! So it doesnt matter if 30 million more apply, they are not legally going to let any more in than they did before.. and the Illegal ones
are finding it harder and harder to get there and stay there...
I think your points are not really all that valid
Just my 12 cents!
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eugenio
Give us some numbers with references man.
Or don't. |
Will this be enough?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-19-Mexico_N.htm
http://www.inami.gob.mx/estudios/seminarios/resumen/7%20j%20...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-16-immigration-l...
http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2008/may/28/mexicans-incr...
Somehow I feel that no matter how much I put up here it would not be enough or that you would find something wrong with it all. You are obviously
either too lazy or too stupid to Google this up your self.
Now, Eugenio, I will wait for you to post your rebuttal argument showing that there is no capital or brain drain occurring in Mexico. Or do you just
want me to do all the work for you?
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MexicoGringoGuy
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Of course there is plenmty of negative news against Mexico and Baja coming rom the states.. Noone ever said that! But what I said before about the
number the US allows in reamins the same...
In case you havent seen a map.. Mexico is a VERY Large Country with a lot of people.. I think it will survive.... If the ones who want to leave
instead of fighting for thier country, let them.. There are plenty more that will fight... I dont think its a complete drain as you say... I cant
argue that more are leaving or wanting to leave yes.. BUT a drain??
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The article that was originally posted said "12 Mexican teachers hired by Texas for the 2008-09 school year".
Come on Nomad crime beat reporter Fulano, let's have some facts. Mexico is a rather large country. Are the numbers big enough to justify the phrase
"brain and capital drain"? |
Did you happen to read this part of the article?
'In Ciudad Juarez, legal sources report that business for assisting people in obtaining US immigration visas rose between 50-80 percent in the first
six months of 2008 in comparison to the same period in 2007. Especially in demand are the E-2 Investor, F-1 Student and TN Nafta Work visas, said
Ciudad Juarez attorney Jennifer Gutierrez."
If you would like to post a counter argument, that's what this message board is for. |
Sure I read it. 50 to 80% of what? My point is that perhaps the number isn't big enough to really make any difference. I don't know. And if a
measurment has that kind of spread, 30%, are the data any good, or are they two people's gut feel? Jennifer's and her lawyer pal perhaps.
Another point is that this increase is in Ciudad Juarez. An extremely violent place. Not in all of Mexico.
Mexican brain drain?? People voting with there feet?? Hyperbole??
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bacquito
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I've read recently in an article about the particle accelerator being constructed in France/Spain that went on to say a ""brain drain was now occuring
between the U.S. and Europe that is the reverse of what occurred years ago-scientist and others are migrating from the U.S. to Europe. Perhaps what we
are seeing is just greater mobility of people seeking greater opportunities.
bacquito
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Eugenio
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
[Now, Eugenio, I will wait for you to post your rebuttal argument showing that there is no capital or brain drain occurring in Mexico. Or do you just
want me to do all the work for you? |
You can wait all you want fulano - while you're waiting show me where I even took a side in this argument - actually I think the premise of the
article is correct - there is a brain drain from Mexico - it's been going on for decades.
My point is that the article is sloppy.
Kind of like you with your translations.
L - I could do a lot better job of demonstrating the brain drain from Mexico than you.
Start with Mario Molina - if you want something anecdotal.
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
My point is that perhaps the number isn't big enough to really make any difference. I don't know. |
OK, so your point is you don't know. My response to you is that your responses have not advanced this dialogue even one iota.
I hope that was not too pugnacious.
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Eugenio
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No - his point is that the article is weak.
And it's a very good point
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