fulano
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8 out of 10 crimes in Rosarito not reported
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsoldetijuana/notas/n762470.htm
Wow! What a major revelation. Who would have imagined that! [the preceding was sarcasm].
| Quote: | Playas de Rosarito.- Ocho de cada diez víctimas de algún delito del orden común no lo denuncian, por lo que son engañosas las cifras oficiales, aceptó
el presidente del Consejo Ciudadano de Seguridad Pública, Ricardo Moreno Villa.
Para terminar con la "danza" de cifras oficiales que no coinciden con la realidad, insiste en que sean estos organismos ciudadanos quienes evalúen los
resultados alcanzados por las diferentes instancias de gobierno en el combate a la inseguridad.
Ante periodistas integrantes de la naciente Asociación de Periodistas de Rosarito y Tijuana, insistió que estas mismas instancias quienes revisen y
validen los avances de las acciones de los gobiernos que abonen a una mayor confianza y participación con acciones preventivas.
"Si bien han habido esfuerzos importantes en este renglón, sigue el flagelo de la inseguridad y los asaltos a viviendas y comercios en la periferia
ante tanto adicto y tanta pobreza que nos llega de otras partes, resultado del desequilibrio económico y el desempleo", argumentó.
Esfuerzos que tampoco han frenado los abusos y malas acciones de ciertos policías, por lo que creemos que esto ha contribuido al desánimo y
desconfianza de muchas personas a presentar sus denuncias. |
Translation follows:
Playas de Rosarito .- Eight out of ten victims of common crimes do not file complaints, thus the official crime figures are misleading, stated the
president of the Citizen Council for Public Security, Ricardo Moreno Villa.
To end the "dance" of official figures which do not coincide with reality, he insisted that it should be citizen agencies which evaluate the results
achieved by the different governmental resources in the fight against insecurity.
Speaking before members of the nascent journalists' association of Rosarito and Tijuana, he insisted that these same citizen groups review and
validate the progress of the governmental activities to increase confidence and participation in preventive actions.
"While there have been significant efforts in this area, there remains the scourge of insecurity and attacks on houses and shops on the outskirts of
town due to so much drug addiction and poverty that comes from elsewhere, a result of economic imbalance and unemployment," he argued .
Likewise, efforts have not slowed the abuse and bad activities of certain police, and we therefore believe that this too has contributed to the
disappointment and distrust such that many people fail to lodge their complaints.
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Photog
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end the "dance"
I love this comment:
| Quote: | | To end the "dance" of official figures which do not coincide with reality |
Gee, ya mean the government figures aren't accurate!? Who new, and when??
| Quote: | | Likewise, efforts have not slowed the abuse and bad activities of certain police, and we therefore believe that this too has contributed to the
disappointment and distrust such that many people fail to lodge their complaints. |
In a nutshell, that's it. It is all about police corruption, which continues. Good post Fulanao, and thank you for taking the time to translate as
well.
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The Gull
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They are wrong...
I heard it was 4.76 out of 10 of UNCOMMON crimes are not reported.
It is similar to the problem in Siberia where 75% of the trees falling are not heard and therefore not reported, so did they really fall?
I also think that you can fool half the people half of the time and most of the people not all of the time, but you can't teach your dog to mow the
lawn.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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gnukid
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Fulano's post, so well edited, points to the underlying issues present in the societal problem with crime in Baja, there is a lack of trust,
understandably.
Now, it is not only a lack of trust in the judiciary and law enforcement but throughout government and in general through society which acts to
debilitate Mexico's economic abilities for cooperation, growth and expansion of the economy.
While I can hear your cries, that "we trust each other, we have great neighbors in our pueblo" and "Tijuana is great", and "rosarito is beautiful",
the under lying issue which is apparent is that there is little trust among the society as a whole as documented in the post.
Furthermore among those who are capable of helping to document and prosecute crime such as each and everyone, many here seem to sound quite cynical,
as noted by the distracting trolling posts above.
As gringos or mexicans, we who have education and computers plus the ability to write and make phone calls are able to provide an example, to educate
and to be leaders but there is a "cement ceiling" which obstructs pursuit of criminals and prosecution. Persist. Insist.
I have made the argument that it is up to individuals who can, to stand up and be an example publicly of how to prosecute criminals. I believe it is
up to those who are knowledgeable and capable to provide exemplary behavior demonstrating justice. The examples provide an educational model for
others in the community and for law enforcement.
There is without question a problem throughout Baja with crime and lack of prosecution, undoubtably there is a lack of trust in the system and each
other and a lack of cohesive process to coordinate investigation and pursuit. We need to create and demonstrate that the system will do the right
thing.
I ask you each to stand up and be an example when a crime occurs whether it be a gas trick, or a change rip-off, or any of the small or large crimes
that affects us and pursue it. Make hard line enforcement an example. When someone tries to steal from you that is a crime that must be reported to
the full extent documentable. Document crimes and report them immediately, name the bad guys and call upon witnesses. It will be an example to the
criminals and cops and also to each other.
Now if you choose not to take the time to document criminals, remember names and places and events then you are not helping reduce the nonsense and
the fear, you brought it on through your lack of action. Those who do stand strong and prosecute the bad guys through the long process, you are the
example for Baja's future.
If you are not participating in improving the circumstance with action documenting who, when and where while contacting authorities repeatedly for
each and every crime, you are an integral part of the problem. It easy to do, stick together, be a witness, be part of the change toward civilian
action and intolerance of criminal behavior.
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by gnukid]
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Eugenio
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People that do not abuse their liver are not to be trusted.
I don't want to take away from fulano's excellent translation - it's really very good - but "delitos del orden comùn" doesn't translate to "common
crimes". I don't think there is any one phrase that would translate it well - because it's a different system of law - but in general "delitos del
orden comùn" would include crimes enforced at the State (BC) and municipal (Rosarito) levels.
I guess I'm bringing it up because"delitos del orden comùn" includes very serious violent crimes like homicide and rape.
Laws enforced by the ejercito or PFP would in general not be "del orden comùn" - these tend to be more like organized crime or trafficing or crimes
that include several jurisdictions - or investigating police themselves.
One of the consequences of sending in the ejercito to places like TJ has (hopefully) been to free up the local State and municipal police to
concentrate on "delitos del orden comùn".
I also wouldn't put too much stock in what this guy in the article is claiming - at least not his figures - he doesn't back them up with any
references - and the nature of his position might make them selfserving.
But I do imagine that a lot of crime goes unreported in Mexico.
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eugenio
I don't want to take away from fulano's excellent translation - it's really very good - but "delitos del orden comùn" doesn't translate to "common
crimes". I don't think there is any one phrase that would translate it well - because it's a different system of law - but in general "delitos del
orden comùn" would include crimes enforced at the State (BC) and municipal (Rosarito) levels. |
You're correct, Eugenio. "delitos del orden comùn" actually means violations of state or local criminal statutes, as opposed to federal criminal
statutes. It is even more complicated than that as there is a lot of overlap between state and federal statutes. Just like in the US, where
kidnapping, for example, is a crime in both the federal and state statutes. There really isn't any simple way to translate what the speaker was saying
in a word or two, I usually just try to put in what he intended. In this case, the speaker was talking about the kind of local crimes that the
federales would not get involved with.
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Bruce R Leech
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I would be surprised if even 1 in 10 crimes are reported in all of Mexico
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
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gnukid
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You think about your world and how you want it to be and you make it so. This is even more true in Baja. If you want something you gotta' make it
happen.
Trust is the sentiment that we lack (not we nomads but the big we ;-) The dialogue here has evolved over the year significantly about the issues and
our lives. The facts of our lives which are the leading cause of our significant problems are crime, government malfeasance in building infrastructure
and a lack of real cooperation between local businesses, plus between US and Mexico private businesses to form cooperatives. These facts lead to lack
of trust in our relationships which impacts our ability to move from impaired economically to flourishing economy.
Baja must get over the trust issue to move forth, but to do so does not require we wait for someone to do it for us, we, who are able, must go forth
and make the community safe from crime. We must secure coalitions of witnesses to crimes who are willing to be one the two 'testigos' and we must be a
part of the process to enforce the little crimes of theft as well as big ones.
While chatting with neighbors, ask your neighbors if you were a victim and lets say it was graffiti, are they willing to be a witnesses if they see a
crime? Really? Make a pact. Would they also ask a friend nearby to be a witness?
Imagine if there were ten arrests for rip offs at gas stations up and down Baja California. The message would be spread and it would radically enforce
the message if you try it you will get caught and you will be prosecuted. No one will hold it against you or the witnesses for reporting a real crime
which multiple people witnesses.
Think of it as mowing the lawn or maintaining your garden, its' your job to maintain your world and it's fun. It's an adventure. Its not hard. It just
takes calmness, commitment, consistency and respect for the law.
Andale amigos, los fuertos de la communidad con gusto,
p.s. the tangental drunk comment stuff-its cool--were nomads!
Now cool off!
[Edited on 7-9-2008 by gnukid]
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bancoduo
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The Gull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
I would be surprised if even 1 in 10 crimes are reported in all of Mexico. |
As I reported - with the same level of evidence supporting the alarmist title of the intial posting ("8 out of 10...") - the real number is 4.76 out
of 10 are not reported.
Bruce, if your statement is phrased the same as my precise report and the same as the initial posting, your reply would have read 9 out 10 crimes are
not reported, which is not that far off from the unsubstantiated claim made by the author.
My apologies to fulano for his thin skin being roughed up by my throwing the BS flag on the report. If I don't agree with you, it is not your signal
to become disagreeable. I did not attack you. If you throw a personal punch, expect an exchange in the gutter of your choosing. Do you wish to
provide evidence of your claims regarding me or would you wish to stop now before making a larger a$$ of yourself?
ILikeMex - I am not at 'duo's throat. He is a stalking reprobate who has been disciplined frequently for his posting. He admires my work and often
openly posts that he wants to be more like me. While one might be charmed with the unsolicited allegiance he provides, I am not. His brand of post
belongs in the Off Topic corral, not on this part of the Board.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
My apologies to fulano for his thin skin being roughed up by my throwing the BS flag on the report. If I don't agree with you, it is not your signal
to become disagreeable. I did not attack you. If you throw a personal punch, expect an exchange in the gutter of your choosing. Do you wish to
provide evidence of your claims regarding me or would you wish to stop now before making a larger a$$ of yourself?
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My skin is not thin, Gull. It's just that I hold you in so much contempt because you are such a lazy poster. Maybe you could gain a little respect if
you actually put forth a cogent argument every once in awhile. Look at your posts, Gull. You never post an honest rebuttal to support your position.
All you do is cast aspersions on whatever anyone else posted. All of your posts start out in the same trite manners:
1) How do you know the number is [1]..[5]..[4.76]...etc...?
2) Well, what if they did........
3) Look at the guy who said that....
4) Show me where....
5) Why isn't it....
You somehow think asking leading questions passes for a rebuttal argument and you want everybody to go to work for you and pull you around in the
wagon.
You don't believe it when the guy says 8 out of 10 crimes are not reported? Fine, Gull. Now show us where he is wrong. Either chit or get off the pot,
a$$wipe.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
You don't believe it when the guy says 8 out of 10 crimes are not reported? Fine, Gull. Now show us where he is wrong. Either chit or get off the pot,
a$$wipe. |
The guy said 8 out of 10, without supplying a source and method of data collection. Without a source cited, the 8/10 is unsupported, and any
discerning reader should dismiss it as baseless blather.
Fulano, you told us a while ago that you have not been to mexico in 10 years and have no plan to go,... all of your pontifications about mexico are
suspect
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
The guy said 8 out of 10, without supplying a source and method of data collection. Without a source cited, the 8/10 is unsupported, and any
discerning reader should dismiss it as baseless blather.
Fulano, you told us a while ago that you have not been to mexico in 10 years and have no plan to go,... all of your pontifications about mexico are
suspect |
No. The news article I posted said that the guy said that. It made no mention of whether or not he had any empirical data to support his statement,
nor whether or not he supplied a source and it was just not reported. You need to do some serious work on reading comprehension. The most you could
say about it is that YOU do not know if he has any support for his numbers, or not.
He belongs to an organization that is dedicated to figuring out that sort of thing:
http://www.ccsp.org.mx/
It appears from their website that they conduct a lot of studies on the issue.
http://www.ccsp.org.mx/documentos/incidenciaytasa.ppt
Would you like to go fall on your sword now?
I did not say I have not been in Mexico in 10 years and your statement is incorrect.
[Edited on 7-10-2008 by fulano]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
The guy said 8 out of 10, without supplying a source and method of data collection. Without a source cited, the 8/10 is unsupported, and any
discerning reader should dismiss it as baseless blather.
Fulano, you told us a while ago that you have not been to mexico in 10 years and have no plan to go,... all of your pontifications about mexico are
suspect |
No. The news article I posted said that the guy said that. It made no mention of whether or not he had any empirical data to support his statement,
nor whether or not he supplied a source and it was just not reported. You need to do some serious work on reading comprehension. The most you could
say about it is that YOU do not know if he has any support for his numbers, or not.
I did not say I have not been in Mexico in 10 years and your statement is incorrect. |
so the article is filled with supporting data and certainty?? "foolito" is better moniker for you
10 years, 8 years, who cares? -- I was more accurate than your article author
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
10 years, 8 years, who cares? -- I was more accurate than your article author
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Oh, so you just decided all by your little self that you are more accurate than the article?
Hey Zeus, what a putz.
p.s. How's your hydrogen mine coming along? Will it solve the energy crisis?
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bancoduo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
p.s. How's your hydrogen mine coming along? |
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
p.s. How's your hydrogen mine coming along? |
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I thought that was just flatulance
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