Woooosh
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Mexican military losing drug war support
They're just as bad as the corrupt cops and narcos they were brought in to corral...
By DAN KEANE, Associated Press Writer
Fri Jul 25, 2:55 PM ET
OJINAGA, Mexico - This hardscrabble Mexican border town welcomed 400 soldiers when they arrived four months ago to stop a wave of drug violence that
brought daytime gunbattles to its main street.
But then the soldiers themselves turned violent, townspeople say, ransacking homes and even torturing people.
The frustration boiled over this week. More than 1,000 people marched through the streets carrying signs begging President Felipe Calderon for
protection from his own troops.
Ojinaga, across the Rio Grande from Presidio, Texas, is not alone. People in cities on the front lines of Mexico's battle against trafficking say they
are increasingly frustrated with military tactics — a shift in opinion that threatens to undermine Calderon's nationwide crackdown.
Mexico's National Human Rights Commission says it has documented more than 600 cases of abuse since Calderon sent 20,000 soldiers across the nation to
take back territory controlled by drug lords.
Mexico's attorney general argues the cases are isolated incidents. The army says it investigates all allegations and punishes those found to have to
violated the law.
But many people say the soldiers have become part of the problem.
A poll published June 30 by the newspaper El Diario of Ciudad Juarez found that only 18 percent of those living in Juarez completely approved of the
army's presence. Two months earlier, the number was 65 percent. The poll, by Confirme, had a margin of error of 5 percentage points.
"These guys don't care about anything," said Lalo Lucero, 44, as he watched soldiers in the city detain a neighborhood youth recently. "They came into
my house without a warrant, searched through everything and told me to sit on a couch and not say anything."
Battles between rival drug cartels killed 4,000 people nationwide in the first 18 months of Calderon's presidency. At least 10 people have been gunned
down this year in Ojinaga, a town of 20,000.
"I'm sure that the army has come here to fight a war against the drug traffickers, and we are very much in agreement with that," said Mayor Cesar
Carrasco. "But we also hope that all the authorities will respect the individual rights of every Ojinaga citizen."
At Wednesday's march, protesters swapped stories of masked soldiers breaking down doors and ransacking homes.
"I'm not against what they do. I'm against how they do it," said Martha Leyva, 44. She said her family was awakened one night in May when soldiers
with machine guns but no warrant broke down her door. They said an anonymous call had directed them to her house.
Janeth Lopez, a 28-year-old hairdresser, said she came home last month to find eight masked soldiers rifling through her belongings.
"If they come and knock on the door of your house and you have nothing to fear, you're going to open the door and tell them, 'Come in and look
around,'" Lopez said. "But if you're up to no good, you're going to run away."
Roberto, a 25-year-old man who didn't want his last name used for fear of retribution, said he, five other men and a teenage boy were returning from a
nearby town recently when they were stopped by soldiers.
Roberto said they were beaten, bound, blindfolded and taken to a military camp.
He said soldiers wrapped their heads in plastic bags, beat and kicked them, and hung some of the members of the group upside down. Soldiers also
forced some of them — including Roberto's 20-year-old cousin — to drop their pants, and then applied pliers to one man's testicles, Roberto said.
"It was always the same question: 'Where did you hide the drugs? Where did you hide the drugs?'" Roberto said. "I told them, 'If I knew, I would say
instead of suffering through all this.' "
He said he and his friends were released without charge and reported their detention to human rights officials.
Military officials at the Ojinaga base told an AP reporter that no one was available to comment on the case. A request for comment from the Defense
Department in Mexico City was not immediately answered.
Workers at the human rights office in Chihuahua state said no one was available to comment on the cases.
A $400 million drug-war aid package just approved by the U.S. Congress does not require the U.S. to verify that Mexico's military is respecting human
rights, as many American lawmakers and Mexican human rights groups had insisted.
The requirement was dropped at the insistence of Mexican officials, who said it would violate the country's sovereignty.
And many Mexicans argue that the soldiers have to be tough. Arturo Huitzil, a federal government employee in Mexico City, said crime is out of
control. He was robbed at an automatic teller machine on Father's Day.
"If the criminal is guilty, you have to use a strong hand. Huitzil said. "You can't coddle them."
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Bajajack
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That's mexico for ya
just cant tell the good guys from the bad ones.
\"take what you can, give nothing back!\"
We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the
American people.\'
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
We can have no \"50-50\" allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all.
Theodore Roosevelt
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woody with a view
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pliers to the nutz???????
how could you report ANYTHING to the authorities after that????
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losfrailes
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Read between the lines! Who could possibly be the worst, the military or the drug cartels????
The military is doing their job, and are under constant threat of death. Thats why the black masks!
I prefer the military presence to the damage and ruin provided by the drug cartels, but then WTF do I know!
Hooah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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comitan
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The public doesn't like it because its cutting into their livelihood.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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losfrailes
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You know in reflection, I hope the drug cartel perps read that article and put the same faith in it that is being placed by other readers.
Perhaps they will also amplify the article with their imagination and suddenly decide that it is unprofitable and unhealthy to continue to pass their
product across the border.
Myself, stamp out the problem. Go for the heart of the problem, or maybe even the nuts of the problem. Felicidades Prez Calderon!
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woody with a view
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i'd think that 600 accounts across the entire country in 12-18 months is a statistical anomaly. 1.5 cases a day nationwide. i guess it sucks if you're
that 1.5 person, but statistically you're a fly on the burro's burro.
last weekend in san diego some guy jumped into the bay from a boat and when the harbor police fished him out he became combative. he took one cop's
tazer and started hitting the cop in the face with it until the other cop shot and killed the guy. today the guy's family and attorney are accusing
the policeman of being anti-gay and of executing the guy. so you see, there are accusations made every day, everywhere.
i'm all for the army kicking some nalgas....it beats the alternatives by a mile.
[Edited on 7-26-2008 by woody in ob]
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bancoduo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
last weekend in san diego some guy jumped into the bay from a boat and when the harbor police fished him out he became combative. he took one cop's
tazer and started hitting the cop in the face with it until the other cop shot and killed the guy. today the guy's family and attorney are accusing
the policeman of being anti-gay and of executing the guy.
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Just a couple good ol boys doing their job cleansing SD bay.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
last weekend in san diego some guy jumped into the bay from a boat and when the harbor police fished him out he became combative. he took one cop's
tazer and started hitting the cop in the face with it until the other cop shot and killed the guy. today the guy's family and attorney are accusing
the policeman of being anti-gay and of executing the guy.
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Just a couple good ol boys doing their job cleansing SD bay. |
A bodybuilder dancer in only his tighty whities in the cold water and he still had them intimidated. Why didn't they use a taser on him if they
support using less-lethal weapons? Is there a one taser per boat limit or something?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by bancoduo
| Quote: | Originally posted by woody in ob
last weekend in san diego some guy jumped into the bay from a boat and when the harbor police fished him out he became combative. he took one cop's
tazer and started hitting the cop in the face with it until the other cop shot and killed the guy. today the guy's family and attorney are accusing
the policeman of being anti-gay and of executing the guy.
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Just a couple good ol boys doing their job cleansing SD bay. |
A bodybuilder dancer in only his tighty whities in the cold water and he still had them intimidated. Why didn't they use a taser on him if they
support using less-lethal weapons? Is there a one taser per boat limit or something? |
Because the San Diego Politizi Dept is a bunch of jack booted, homophobic N-zis.... I used to live there in my hippy days and was hasseled every
day .... they couldn't stand someone llike me walking the streets of La Jolla ....
I hope they put this cop in jail where he belongs.... sounds like he would fit right in with the mexican police .... maybe he should move to BC 
CaboRon
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losfrailes
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Talk about swiping a thread.
Since when did the actions of the San Diego Police Dept have anything to do with the Mexican Military losing support in the war against drugs.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by losfrailes
Talk about swiping a thread.
Since when did the actions of the San Diego Police Dept have anything to do with the Mexican Military losing support in the war against drugs.
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I really don't know , was just responding to a post by Woody .
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losfrailes
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This, a response from a TJ resident to the question 'What do the citizens of TJ think about the article in question?'
"I realy don't know about that place in Mexico but as for here in Tijuana and the rest of Baja California military presence is very welcome. You hear
no negative comments about them exept maybe the bad guys comenting."
So apparently not all feel the military is out of line in this fight!
Hooah!!
[Edited on 7-28-2008 by losfrailes]
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Pescador
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You know when you are up to your ass in alligators, the enemy looks the same. That sweet looking little lady may be exactly the one who is the cartel
leader who after dark changes completely and has her boys hauling the drugs. If the local residents really got behind the army and reported all of
the known traffic in drugs, they could probably shut the thing down real quick.
And all this crud about being "politically correct" and giving everyone the benefit of the doubt as to whether they are involved or not involved is
a "real fine idea". Why maybe they could go house to house and just ask the people. I am sure when asked they are all truthful and honest.
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lizard lips
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I was in Ojinaga a few months ago and it is a little dirty nasty, nasty dirty town that works on the "good ol boy" system.
I was investigating a homicide there and did not get any support from the ministerio publico office in fact I was told to leave the office until I
called their boss in Mexico City. Then for some reason all the doors opened up like magic!
Everyone in this $%&# hole knows who is dealing and now they complain that the military is harassing them?
This town is located on the border out in the middle of no-where and I couldn't believe all the brand new trucks and beautiful homes when the streets
are mostly dirt and downtown is in disrepair.
I was stopped by the military in my rented car close to town on my way from Chihuahua City and stopped and chatted with the boys. They told me that
this particular corridor is a very popular transportation route for drugs and that they have caught many trying to transport ad that Ojinaga is a base
for entry to the US not only for drugs but for illegals because of the very remote area.
It's time for HARD MILITARY presents in these areas now! You have nothing to worry about if your an upstanding citizen and follow the laws
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Why maybe they could go house to house and just ask the people. I am sure when asked they are all truthful and honest. |
The cartel hit men would kill the first family that opened it's doors to talk. That would end it. There's no collective political will among the
people to create change- they hide in fear. No citizens of any country have gained anything by hiding at home in fear- Mexico will get worse until
the men get balls.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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bancoduo
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It must be in the genes
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
The cartel hit men would kill the first family that opened it's doors to talk. That would end it. There's no collective political will among the
people to create change- they hide in fear. No citizens of any country have gained anything by hiding at home in fear- Mexico will get worse until
the men get balls. |
your statement has been paraphrased in numerous books on the Mexican revolution.
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Woooosh
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It seems NOW is the time for the next Mexican Revolution... no? I wish them the best- becuase nothing good is happening. The cartels dominate the
police and judicial systems, the Army is learning how to torture. If some of the 11 million Mexican-Americans with current ties to Mexico would just
come back home for a few months each- they would see for themselves what needs changing and instill the need and will to change in their families
here. JMHO
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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MexicoGringoGuy
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Everyone thinks they are doing thier job, and I think mainly they are.. Everyopne says "Be tough" etc.. BUT I can assure you, if the military Busted
in a Gringo's home in Baja, and rifled throiugh thier things for no reason, that gringo would be changing thier tune QUICK... SO.. be tough, BUT be
smart too, and just because the cartel calls in fake tips to keep you busy doesnt mean you have to bust in every home you get a fake tip on...
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