| Pages:
1
2 |
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
geo mike...you got it right...no point going to LOL in april...I hope you have a great time in san ignacio and look forward to your report.
All the service providers who take you whale watching in their vans use the salt works access...only private vehicles have to use the entrance south
of GN...so we went through the salt works with Chavelo. He used to be the boss of the whale team out in the inner lagoon...the ejido benito juarez has
the concession there as they own that land...the salt works is their land to and leased to ESSA.
Keep in mind each trip is different and so much depends on your boat driver!...as well as the mood the whales are in.
|
|
|
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
When humans first began to watch whales recreationally, whales were naturally afraid of boats. It took many years to win their trust so that people
could get close to them. In the good old days, we were happy to get within 20 meters of a whale and harrasment laws didnt permit one to get closer. We
kept our respectful distance and were sometimes rewarded by a whale coming closer to us.
Now that whales have lost their fear of boats, things have changed dramatically. The onslaught of commercial whale watching has put pressure on these
animals in all areas of their life.
The migration route is studded with boats from California to Alaska...but the good thing is, the open pacific can be rough and the whale tour boats
only stay with a migrating group for a short time as the whales are passing by. It is in the lagoons where whales cant escape the daily pestering of
boats. They have grown accustomed to this...babies are born and raised among the pangas. The problem is that when they lost their fear of boats, more
accidents began to occur because whales came too close to the boats and the captains didnt see them. Lots of whales have scars like these from
propellers.
Unfortunately, all human habituated animals are more at risk of injury and dying. Bears in parks get used to humans feeding them...then get shot for
being a menace. Whales get used to boats...get run over or killed by whalers.
This is why I am at odds with myself regarding the promotion of friendly whale encounters...deep down in my heart, I feel it really isnt in the best
interest of the whales to touch them even though it is one of the most amazing experiences I have ever had. But just because WE like it, should we be
allowed to do it? Years ago, when the friendly phenomenon was just beginning, we discussed at great length the pros and cons of this type of contact
and one suggestion was to forbid the touching of whales for the good of the whales...keep your hands in the boat for your own safety. But it never
came about...it is just too tempting to touch these magnificent creatures we love so much....even if it isnt the best thing for them. They too used to
seem content to just gaze at us but now lift their chins to us for a scratch...some individuals seem to enjoy it as much as we do...but others
dont...many whales dont want to be disturbed.
And herein lies the problem...nowadays pangeros are under severe pressure from thier passengers to pet a whale in a couple hours...so they drive
around frantically trying to find a whale who will cooperate & allow itself to be touched. they dont have time to just sit and observe whales in
hopes that one may come over for a visit. I have spoken with guides in san ignacio who really have a hard time as they are expected to give their
clients a friendly whale and are reprimanded when they dont!
There was a huge controversy over salt works expanding into San Ignacio lagoon that centered around whale protection. Fact is, the worlds largest salt
producing company is based in & around Ojo de Liebre...which has the largest concentration of gray whales which seem relatively unaffected by
this industry. Are we hypocrites when we oppose issues that may affect whale habitat but do nothing about....and even participate in activities that
negatively affect whales?
What I dont understand is if everyone cares so much and wants to protect whales...why isnt the whale watching industry better regulated or at least
the current regulations better enforced?
Is it really good for whales to have boats all around them when giving birth and nursing?
If feeding patterns are interrupted by boats and whales arent getting the nutrition needed, is this healthy?
Is whale petting good for the whales??
why arent there environmental campaignes to protect whales from whale watchers?
I believe whale observation CAN be carried out but in a much less intrusive manner with well trained guides and strict enforcement of the regulations
and with radically different methods such as viewing platforms...but this is not to be....whale watching is big $.
While I was waiting for a ride at the entrance to the lagoon on the highway, I took this photo of one of the icons on the big sign. I had never seen
this sign before but I thought it was very interesting the image they used to portray the message not to disurb the whales.
ironically, this next photo was my favorite picture of the bunch as it portrays the miracle of interspecies contact.
what do you thinK?
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by shari]
|
|
|
David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
|
|
If the whales didn't want to be touched by us, then they wouldn't come to us... to get touched!
We're not making them come to us, we aren't bribing them with hands full of plankton! 
|
|
|
Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
|
|
There is no question in my mind that the whales who get touched want to get touched. In San Ignacio I have seen "friendlies" avoid pangas
whose passengers do NOT touch them, hanging instead alongside pangas where they DO get touched. Some whales clearly like the "touching". But I think
that shari's point is the pressure that the pangueros feel from customers who virtually demand the touching encounters. I have had wonderful
interactions with the whales in all three lagoons for more than thirty years, but I have never touched one. I don't feel that touching one is
necessary in order to enjoy this most amazing natural phenomenon. Perhaps if more people realized that you don't have to "pet" a whale to enjoy the
encounter the pressure to "pet" would be eased. I also intensely dislike the term "pet" - way too anthropomorphic and it contributes to the problem.
BTW in this picture it is the panguero who is doing the scratching:
carpe diem!
|
|
|
Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow
|
|
Now that I've railed about "touching" here's my favorite "touching" image - note the hand gently touching the rostrum in the lower right:
carpe diem!
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
There is no question in my mind that the whales who get touched want to get touched. In San Ignacio I have seen "friendlies" avoid pangas
whose passengers do NOT touch them, hanging instead alongside pangas where they DO get touched. Some whales clearly like the "touching". But I think
that shari's point is the pressure that the pangueros feel from customers who virtually demand the touching encounters. I have had wonderful
interactions with the whales in all three lagoons for more than thirty years, but I have never touched one. I don't feel that touching one is
necessary in order to enjoy this most amazing natural phenomenon. Perhaps if more people realized that you don't have to "pet" a whale to enjoy the
encounter the pressure to "pet" would be eased. I also intensely dislike the term "pet" - way too anthropomorphic and it contributes to the problem.
BTW in this picture it is the panguero who is doing the scratching:
|
One of the things we really like about the Kuyima operation at San Ignacio is the orientation before getting into the boat. It is VERY clearly stated
that there is no guarentee that one will get to touch or even see a whale. They also talk about why they will not chase any whales, and they stick to
that. They are also very clear as to what areas of the whale should not be touched.
If they see whales, they will stop and let the whales approach the boat if the whale chooses to do so. And when we were able to watch and photograph
the mating ritual, they kept a good distance away.
When we went out a few weeks ago when there were not many whales present yet, they told us that they had only identified a few that were friendly and
the rest were staying away and they fully respected that.
While I have observed others in my boat touching a whale, I am usually too busy watching or taking pictures---I love the experience, but I do not need
to touch one. And yes, while it may be controversial as to how it affects the whales, I believe there would be less money and less support for saving
the whales if these whale watching tours were not available.
BTW, we have never made a reservation with Kuyima and have never had a problem --- in fact sometimes I think it is better that way as we often end up
with fewer people in the panga.
Still glad the salt works are not at San Ignacio. Yes, the salt works have been around for a very long time at Ojo de Liebre--the latest company
flooded an old British cemetary with one of the channels and a skeleton washed up one time.
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by DianaT]
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Unfortunately, all human habituated animals are more at risk of injury and dying. Bears in parks get used to humans feeding them...then get shot for
being a menace. Whales get used to boats...get run over or killed by whalers.
There was a huge controversy over salt works expanding into San Ignacio lagoon that centered around whale protection. Fact is, the worlds largest salt
producing company is based in & around Ojo de Liebre...which has the largest concentration of gray whales which seem relatively unaffected by
this industry. Are we hypocrites when we oppose issues that may affect whale habitat but do nothing about....and even participate in activities that
negatively affect whales?
what do you thinK?
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by shari] |
First of all, the idea stopping another salt works at San Ignacio was far more inclusive than just protecting the whales, but they made good poster
children.
Yes, I agree that many wild animals are in more danger when they become habituated to humans. The bear example is an easy one. But I am not so sure
it applies to ALL wild animals.
Now, if someone tagged the friendly whales and then showed that they indeed were in more danger, that would be different. The pangueros talk about
the same friendly whales returning year after year. No, that is not scientific proof of anything, but has there ever been a scientific study done?
Such a study could show which whales are killed by the whalers,etc., or if that kill is more random and includes as many non friendly as friendly
whales.
If it was shown that indeed the friendly whales were more often killed by the whalers, then we would be hypocrites for participating, promoting, and
profiting from these activities.
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by DianaT]
|
|
|
Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
|
|
"If it was shown that indeed the friendly whales were more often killed by the whalers, then we would be hypocrites for participating, promoting, and
profiting from these activities."
With the magnitude of such an effort to tag "friendly" whales it would seem to be something that might only happen if the Greys find themselves on the
endangered species list.
But it is an interesting concept.
|
|
|
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
gray whales are the only marine mammal species ever to be taken off the endangered species list!
I saw firsthand an exellent example of a friendly whale being hit. Years ago, there was an extremely mushy mom who's calf in turn LOVED the pangas.
One morning this little critter came over to visit one of his favorite lancheros...problem was, the guide was chatting with a passenger and didnt see
the baby and ran right over it. This baby was found dead the next day. Whales used to be really good at staying out of harms way but now they swim
over to the boats and the guides dont always see them.
Photo ID was my specialty and I saw an increase in calves with propeller cuts over the years as the moms became less protective. Most friendlies have
been Id'd as they are easy to do so but I doubt that whalers ID whales when they kill them. Tagging is an incredibly invasive science as well...I love
it when they say..Oh it doesnt hurt the whale and then shoot a dart with a harpoon and sink a 2" plug into the whale who often jumps and violently
reacts to the shot. In the past, the scientists made the whale guides take them out to do this and the whales were really hard to get close to for
weeks afterwards....they were peeed that their pals betrayed them!
Before, moms would switch the calf to the other side of her to protect it...now she just leaves it there and is more lax letting calves approach the
boats which leads to more mishaps. Most are non threatening and perhaps are a good lesson to the calf to be more careful with motors.
I am so glad to hear Kuyima does an orientation with their passengers...I only wish all outfits did that. It is my dream to set up a training program
for all lancheros and make it a regulation that they have a guide on board or at least give a handout explaining safety issues in english.
The environmental issues about a salt works in san ignacio are far more important than protecting whales but as dianne mentioned....their campaign
centered around whales...poster animals!!
I hope this post at least causes some folks to reflect a bit about wild viewing.
|
|
|
DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
One of the most interesting studies I have read about grey whales is Saving the Grey Whales by Serge Dedina---who is now the leader of Wildcoast.
His book not only briefly gives a history of whales and man together, but as a political geographer, he gives an in depth story about whales as a part
of Mexican and International politics. He also goes into whale behavior including some great stories that ended in disaster when the whales were
angered. He talks about one of the first accounts of a friendly whale in San Ignacio Lagoon in 1976---fully initiated by the whale.
While his research included research in Mexico City, etc., is well footnoted etc., he includes lots of interaction, information and opinions from the
locals most closely involved with whales. He spent a lot of time at the lagoons. It is also very informative as to the history of the environmental
movements and agencies in Mexico.
His information, history, and proposal for the extention of the salt works is very detailed including lots of the politics involved. Some might be
surprised to know that the works would have extended to near Campo Rene. It would have been an environmental disaster.
It is not a long book, so much is covered briefly, but it is well worth the read.
I do believe that the managed whale watching will do more in the long run to help protect the whales. It brings them lots of attention.
And, if people are concerned about the whalers, they can do as we do and contribute monthly to Green Peace and other such organizations.
Happy Whale Watching.
[Edited on 2-13-2010 by DianaT]
|
|
|
ArvadaGeorge
Nomad
Posts: 358
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
|
|
Is the $100.00 rate in us $? Is it per room/person /group? Does it include the panga ride?
|
|
|
bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: hubimos llegado
|
|
Shari, your posts in this thread have been really educational and absolutely compelling reading. We're heading to San Ignacio for a week and look
forward to seeing the whales again with new eyes, thanks to you.
|
|
|
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
Bajamigo...thank you...it has been one of my missions in life to help humans understand whales. Have a wonderful trip!
ArvadaGeorge...great question...the $100 US is based on one person but if you are a couple the package that includes your double room, breakfast,
transportation to and from the lagoon via the salt works and your whale watching tour in the inner lagoon...would be $150 US dollars for 2 people.
|
|
|
wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
"...Pta. Pescal in the middle lagoon where a new company goes and the inner lagoon where the ejido Benito Juarez runs their operation."
Could I somehow be able to contact someone to get there if I were camping at the lagoon (not in town)?
|
|
|
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
I dont know the name of the company that goes there...I think they are a fishing coop from GN and have one panga...you could ask at the fishing coop
office on the main drag in GN on the north side...they have a big office...or ask Chavelo at Cowboys...he should know. I think you can camp there too.
I will ask around next week when I go again to GN and the lagoon.
|
|
|
MarkR.
Newbie
Posts: 24
Registered: 6-4-2009
Location: Martinez, CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Shari & all - thank you for a wonderful thread. We had hoped to be coming down for whale watching this April but it's not going to happen this
year  . Looks like the only Baja this year is going to be Rosarito at Spring
Break. But we are making plans with some family now for heading down in March 2011 for whale watching.
|
|
|
EnseNADAslim
Nomad
Posts: 138
Registered: 1-15-2009
Location: Baja CA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thanks for Posting the Pics,,,and I believe a "Happy Birthday to You" fits in there some where if I remember correctly. We really missed our trip
south this year with our Kayaks and the whale watching,,,but right now we are full steam ahead on getting the Plymouth going,,,so my Mistress gets all
of my attention.
Your pictures are fantastic and as usual you shed much needed light on the world of Whales. Saludos Juan and we missed seeing you all this time
around. Hopefully this fall we can take a break and come enjoy your place.
Thanks Again
Dennis (Slim) and Debbie
|
|
|
shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
|
|
ah yes...the famed birthday whale extravaganza!!! I have vowed to camp this year so I dont get....ummm....sick!!! thanks for the bday wishes Slim.
by the way...Tilikum...a Vancouver Island Captive Killer whale has struck again...killing yet another trainer...so sad...for both of them....watching
whales in the wild is the way to go....free Willy & Tillikum.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
