If you're spectating on an Open Course it would seem that you are responsible for where you are spectating. I've seen alot of Darwinian behavoir at
Off Road races.
in my industry all injuries are considered preventable, and all activities are planned to prevent injuries, and there is no such thing as an
"accident." injuries are considered preventable.
i doubt that the business of race promotion (and their insurers and the land owners) considers spectator injury/death an acceptable part of doing
business,... but it seeems that some of the fans are
Let's play "What's my line". My turn - "Are you a
Lawyer?" Ie; He who has the ability to pay, must be found at fault.
Amen, akshadow. Everyone wants to blame someone else for THEIR poor choices.
Unfortunately, especially because this happened in Ca with our abundance of lawyers, I am sure this will severely impact the future of off-road
racing.
Are all accidents preventable - probably. But at what cost? In Ca it is usually at the cost of taking away more personal freedoms from all.
I'm very saddened by this incident. My heart goes out to all those who were killed or injuried. A close, personal friend was one of those injured
and thankfully he is going to be alright. He was one of the lucky ones who made a poor choice but will live to learn from it. I also feel for the
responders that had to deal wth the aftermath. If I hadn't recently retired I would have been one of those responders that night but ultimately
people need to accept responsibility for their decisions. Should we outlaw skydiving and hang gliding because people stream in ocassionally? I
would hope never, though I have never tried either of these sports. Should we restrict them to areas where they can't hurt others if they come
crashing down, by all means.
These people made the choice to stand inside the 100' limit they were advised to maintain and unfortunately they paid for that poor decision.
Originally posted by David K
They are NOT out there to entertain people who come to watch, as those people pay nothing to the organization and thus no money goes to racers from
the people along the course. Nobody wants anyone hurt, and if you don't want to get hurt, don't stand next to a race course.
dk: it is interesting how you place the blame on the spectators. what about the promoters and racers providing an "atrractive nuisance?" if the
racers want to race and avoid people, they should stick to private land or hire security to chase away the spectators...
Originally posted by David K
They are NOT out there to entertain people who come to watch, as those people pay nothing to the organization and thus no money goes to racers from
the people along the course. Nobody wants anyone hurt, and if you don't want to get hurt, don't stand next to a race course.
dk: it is interesting how you place the blame on the spectators. what about the promoters and racers providing an "atrractive nuisance?" if the
racers want to race and avoid people, they should stick to private land or hire security to chase away the spectators...
Goat-------I DO hope you are just playing "devils advocate" here-------nobody could actually believe the things you come up with-----NOBODY!!!!
bajaandy, my deepest condolences go out to you and, most of all, your friend's loved ones. Very, very saddened by all of this. Appreciate the link to
FAST-Aid...donation made.
The racers are only in a man versus machine versus the environment situation. It is all very Zen, right. The feeding of the egos of the drivers, the
millions spent on purpose built equipment, with ADVERTISING all over the vehicles, none of this has anything to do with the unnecessary spectators,
right?
That's about as realistic as your take on Global Warming!
Any race vehicle will go faster with the wheels on the ground, yet "big air" is part of SATISFYING THE FANS. The fact that many of the fans are not in
their right minds as a result of "adult" depressant drugs can easily contrubute to a fatal combination.
In this as in all other things, natural selection ALWAYS wins.
In the film I've seen, it would appear that people lined the course elbow to elbow for miles. That seems pretty unlikely. My guess is that the crowd
assembled there because the racers were most out of control there. Was that a conscious choice; likely. Were the people who were most in harm's way
being conscious of their surroundings? That is hard to believe. Were they all still so young as to still feel "bulletproof? It is very sad, and all
too common in our culture.
Bottom line David: Take the spectatators and the advertising out of the racing, and the racing WILL end.
[Edited on 8-17-2010 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
Interesting that you pick my name, Perry... none-the-less, as a former off road racer and pit team member, I think I have better insight onto why we
like to race off road than some ... well, let's not use names.
If you follow this news, you will hear that families and friends of those killed or injured do NOT blame the racer... He was there to race, and the
fans went there BECAUSE there was a race, not the other way-around. Fans go to a speed event to see speed... Racers don't go to a speed event to drive
15 mph by their fans, or because fans are there.
My mistake. Keeping the wheels on the ground will help the vehicle go QUICKER, because you also can't use the brakes with the tires off the ground.
Just as in NHRA, it is the quickest, not necessarily the fastest, vehicle that wins the race. When the drags got out of control, NHRA shortened the
tracks by 320 feet. What will be the response of racers on public lands?
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
I think the news alone should be enough to teach a hard lesson of being too close to a race course... but knowing how government wants to do the
thinking for us, some barriers will be erected and there will be special areas where people can watch from, not just anywhere in the desert. Or, to
the delight of special interests, the sport of desert racing in the U.S. will end, after 40+ years.
Originally posted by David K
the fans went there BECAUSE there was a race,
i really doubt people care about the competition. people go to car races to see power, destruction and crashes. people go to boxing matches to see a
beating and blood. the motivation of people is pretty simple. violence and destruction sells. people crave violence and destruction. just look at
the movies.
"The racers pay money to race their vehicles as a test of man & machine vs. the terrain. They are NOT out there to entertain people who come to
watch,..."
To your credit, your subsequent posts seem to indicate that you really didn't mean that.
I'm just stating the obvious, although I too have raced and pitted for others, unlike you I am no expert on the motivations of drivers who knowingly
put their fans in danger race after race because that driver didn't ask the fans to stand that close to the track. The willingness to drive so close
to "out of control" that close to spectators MUST indicate a level of unconcern for the fans. Can a driver really say that they entered another race,
knowing that the roadsides would be clogged with people in the most dangerous places, and killing a few of them is none of his responsibility?
I'm reminded of the TV commercial with a guy getting ready to jump out of an airplane. "This parachute was properly packed, Right?" He asks. And the
hippie characature responds, "Duh, PROBABLY!"
At this point a sensable person waits for the plane to land and quits the sport if that is the way it is always going to be and one wants to avoid the
splat.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
I had no interest in starting a debate about off road racing, rather I had hoped to convince some of you to make a donation on behalf of those young
men and women who lost their lives. As of today, Fast-Aid.org has raised over $100,000.00 to help with this tragedy. (PJPadilla, a sincere thanks to
you for making a donation.)
subvert the dominant paradigm
"If you travel with a man, you must either fall out with him or make him your good friend."
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if we live, and we don't know why." - Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
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