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BajaGringo
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Mexico probably has more corruption if measured in terms of singular events and is mostly blue collar crime. The USA probably has more corruption in
terms of dollars and cents, mostly as white collar crime. Ultimately we are all victims of the corruption whether in the boardroom, border or side of
the highway; north and south of the border.
Finger pointing isn't going to make me feel better about any of it...
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BajaBruno
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US law enforcement does have corruption, but ponder where that corruption is. It doesn't involve suspects of murder, rape, robbery, and mayhem. If
the police err in those crimes, it is bending or breaking the rules to enforce an arrest or conviction.
The corruption is found in soft morality "crimes" of drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and political crimes like immigration. Law enforcers reflect
the community, and when the community believes a law is unjust, the police do not enforce that law. Bad cops take the next step and facilitate the
violators for profit, but that is really just a symptom of a legal system which has lost touch with the community.
That these corrupt border patrol officers exist in such large numbers should send the legislature a message. The message is not that the punishment
for officer violators should be more severe--that doesn't work, as any decent criminologist knows. The message is that the law does not have
community support and needs to be revised.
We could say that these are rogue cops who succumbed to the lure of money to betray the book, but that ignores the psychology of the police mentality.
Police officers receive job satisfaction from making arrests. When large numbers of them break the letter of the law it is because they can make a
personal rationalization that the law is corrupt, not themselves. They can only make that leap of faith with community support.
I have no regard for crooked cops, but I think the numbers of officers involved is sending a message that the problem will not be solved until
Washington starts to listen.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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vgabndo
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Very well said Bruno.
In my judgement, a government of, by and for the people is not impossible. It does, however, involve a lot of personal responsibility; a commodity in
somewhat short supply in this culture of late.
I do believe that a population will self regulate. This is incredibly complicated by the introduction of a lot of morality based on myth and dogma
rather than chopping wood and carrying water realities.
I have the feeling that the average Mexican has a better handle on what is real than the average American.
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Loretana
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quote sanquintinsince73
"Either we (USA) stops consuming, or we should go spray the fields with agent orange or paraquat."
Now there is a really intelligent solution. Maybe the US should invade their country and impose it's will on a soverign state. And the paraquat/agent
orange idea, that really worked in Viet Nam, didn't it??
"If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration."
-Nikola Tesla
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
The corruption is found in soft morality "crimes" of drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and political crimes like immigration. Law enforcers reflect
the community, and when the community believes a law is unjust, the police do not enforce that law. Bad cops take the next step and facilitate the
violators for profit, but that is really just a symptom of a legal system which has lost touch with the community.
That these corrupt border patrol officers exist in such large numbers should send the legislature a message. The message is not that the punishment
for officer violators should be more severe--that doesn't work, as any decent criminologist knows. The message is that the law does not have
community support and needs to be revised.
We could say that these are rogue cops who succumbed to the lure of money to betray the book, but that ignores the psychology of the police mentality.
Police officers receive job satisfaction from making arrests. When large numbers of them break the letter of the law it is because they can make a
personal rationalization that the law is corrupt, not themselves. They can only make that leap of faith with community support.
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bs.
the motivation is greed, not unjust laws.
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DENNIS
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Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
That these corrupt border patrol officers exist in such large numbers should send the legislature a message. The message is not that the punishment
for officer violators should be more severe--that doesn't work, as any decent criminologist knows. The message is that the law does not have
community support and needs to be revised.
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How can that be, Bruno? When did customs activities at the gate become a reflection of community approval? If the community approves of illegalities,
perhaps the community needs a refresher course in morality.
How large are the numbers of corrupt border patrol officers? Does anybody pretend to know?
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BajaBruno
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Dennis, no one knows how many border patrol officers have been breaking the laws, but it is a good guess that it is more than the "114 current or
former employees [that] have been arrested or charged with corruption related to their jobs since October 2004 through August." Even for such a large
agency, an average of 19 corruption arrests per year is very dramatic.
I was struck that this CPO officer is accused of allowing only marijuana and illegal aliens to cross. All of us know that much more than weed and
aliens crosses the border, but this officer is not accused of allowing cocaine, methamphetamine, or heroin to cross. My guess is that a personal
morality, which reflects community values that marijuana and aliens are not evil, is responsible for Jones' limitation to these two commodities.
California, where these offenses took place, consistently shows in polls an acceptance of both marijuana and immigration, legal or not. Those
community values leak over into law enforcement, where community policing models insist that law enforcement reflect the interests of the public. We
see this often in vice crimes. The police do not enforce prostitution laws unless the community complains; speeders in an inappropriately low speed
zones are ignored; undocumented aliens are allowed to live unmolested unless they violate another law; and marijuana possession results in a warning
instead of an arrest.
Admittedly, the CBP is not the local police, but they are not immune to community pressure. Most minor customs violations result in a warning and
confiscation rather than arrest, and most attempted entries by undocumented aliens result in immediate repatriation rather than incarceration for
violating immigration laws.
Again, I am not trying to justify a crooked officer, but laws are made by people and they can be repealed by people. When the cops start ignoring law
violations, which is the case here, perhaps that is a signal to the lawmakers that some laws need to be reconsidered. No law is sacrosanct--we
criminalize behavior and we can decriminalize the same behavior. California did this in the 1970's when it repealed anti-gay laws that prohibited
oral or anal sex, and other arcane laws that regulated relationships and bedroom behavior. Community values changed and the law eventually changed
with them.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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durrelllrobert
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
[
How large are the numbers of corrupt border patrol officers? Does anybody pretend to know? |
guessing that less than 10% of actual corrupt CBP agents are currently under investigation :
as of 15 Sep 2010 ... The number of CBP corruption investigations opened by the inspector general climbed from 245 in 2006 to more than 770 this year.
...
reynosafree.blogspot.com/.../los-carteles-mexicanos-de-la-droga-la.html
... also another 200+ ICE agents currently under investigation
Bob Durrell
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
I was struck that this CPO officer is accused of allowing only marijuana and illegal aliens to cross. All of us know that much more than weed and
aliens crosses the border, but this officer is not accused of allowing cocaine, methamphetamine, or heroin to cross. My guess is that a personal
morality, which reflects community values that marijuana and aliens are not evil, is responsible for Jones' limitation to these two commodities.
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Would it not be likely that he had no real knowledge of the contents? It could have been anything.
| Quote: | | Admittedly, the CBP is not the local police, but they are not immune to community pressure. |
What about peer pressure? Is that non-existant at the border? How do fellow officers act in these occurances?
| Quote: | | When the cops start ignoring law violations, which is the case here, perhaps that is a signal to the lawmakers that some laws need to be
reconsidered. |
To me it's a sign that more stringent deterrents need to be in place. Laws arn't supposed to be rewritten at the border gate.
I hope we're still speaking of the officer's transgressions and not the criminal traveler.
Anyway, thanks, Bruno.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBruno
The corruption is found in soft morality "crimes" of drugs, gambling, and prostitution, and political crimes like immigration. Law enforcers reflect
the community, and when the community believes a law is unjust, the police do not enforce that law. Bad cops take the next step and facilitate the
violators for profit, but that is really just a symptom of a legal system which has lost touch with the community.
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Cops have always turned a blind eye on occasion, be it for the violation or who the violator was. Once they start accepting cash in exchange they are
simply crooked IMHO...
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sanquintinsince73
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Ala. senators, casino owner accused of vote buying
The owner of Alabama's largest casino, four state senators and several lobbyists have been indicted and accused of vote buying in an effort to get a
bill passed that would have legalized electronic bingo.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39501068/from/toolbar
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