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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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The Engineer !!
Their was this engineer that was putting sea water in his BATTERIES without the boss knowing it. he was arrested for SALT-IN-BATTERY, but the CHARGE
wouldn't HOLD.. he is sitting in his CELL serving two CURRENT sentences........there is so many varibles on this subject it e a few books to
write...But I DO NOT use amp gauges with shunts in my designs and I prefer 12 volt (13.8) as its the easy to get parts and related gear..and dont
forget isolator's with Zener diodes lose 1.0 volts from the charge (bad) I like COMPINERS and/or Blue Sea System's ACR'S f-ng work Great..you can
also Series/parallel batteries.....Last night I stopped by my old house and there was a packge for me...A FLUKE 88..no s--t !! with a temp probe and
rpm inductive pickup !!! K&T Xmas early !!
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by brewer
Well I already have an Outback controller and batteries and panels. I am borrowing a Trace inverter. With LarryC's info, I'd be better off just
going with the Outback inverter.
Better do it soon before the Trace quits working on me!
Thanks for the info.
Now, anyone have an Outback inverter for sale? |
if you already have the outback controller you really don't need a "mate"
the controller has all the programs to charge the batteries
and equalize them
now if you want the inverter to correctly charge the batteries when it cloudy then you need the mate
the charger in the outback is really good and powerful
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
Their was this engineer that was putting sea water in his BATTERIES without the boss knowing it. he was arrested for SALT-IN-BATTERY, but the CHARGE
wouldn't HOLD.. he is sitting in his CELL serving two CURRENT sentences........there is so many varibles on this subject it e a few books to
write...But I DO NOT use amp gauges with shunts in my designs and I prefer 12 volt (13.8) as its the easy to get parts and related gear..and dont
forget isolator's with Zener diodes lose 1.0 volts from the charge (bad) I like COMPINERS and/or Blue Sea System's ACR'S f-ng work Great..you can
also Series/parallel batteries.....Last night I stopped by my old house and there was a packge for me...A FLUKE 88..no s--t !! with a temp probe and
rpm inductive pickup !!! K&TXmas early !! |
i'm sure this is interesting to someone but what does ithave to do with replacing an inverter in a solar house?
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brewer
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 1-4-2011
Location: BCS
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| Quote: | if you already have the outback controller you really don't need a "mate"
the controller has all the programs to charge the batteries
and equalize them
now if you want the inverter to correctly charge the batteries when it cloudy then you need the mate
the charger in the outback is really good and powerful |
I have AGM's. I thought you don't equalize those? I do want the charger to properly charge the batteries when it's cloudy. I'm in BCN.
Just a question, how does the inverter charge the batteries? I thought it just inverted the power. I'm new to this and really want to understand it.
Thanks.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by brewer
if you already have the outback controller you really don't need a "mate"
the controller has all the programs to charge the batteries
and equalize them
now if you want the inverter to correctly charge the batteries when it cloudy then you need the mate
the charger in the outback is really good and powerful |
I have AGM's. I thought you don't equalize those? I do want the charger to properly charge the batteries when it's cloudy. I'm in BCN.
Just a question, how does the inverter charge the batteries? I thought it just inverted the power. I'm new to this and really want to understand it.
Thanks. |
The inverter has an AC charger for charging with a generator. You need the mate so everything will
play nice together.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1593
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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Brewer- Really, check out this link. It virtually covers everything you need to know about DC power and inverters. There is probably even more
information than you can get from CaptKW. 
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brewer
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That was helpful. Thanks a lot.
[Edited on 12-7-2013 by brewer]
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Give me a FRiking Break !!
Laincardriver--- As a Fuel injection and Electrical specialist that works on boats/yachts the LINK you gave is childs play !!I could have wrote that
30 years ago......When the Coast Guard AUX PATROL is out looking for a vessel in a PAN_PAN..MAY DAY....SACURTY !! Call,,I'm the guy that makes it
happen...I learned at the age of 20 something ALL Guys think that they know how to fix stuff,,,and are mechanics..HA,,HA.......I NOW VOW NOT TO HELP
ANYMORE ON THIS SITE !!! At 95 A hr and booked out I have better things to do.....BTW...ALL MY WORK IS DONE TO,,,,,ABYC,,NEMA,,CFR standards.....SO
flock OFF!!
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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WOW! Thats a good thing....BYE BYE Dont let the door hit you in the burro...
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
Laincardriver--- As a Fuel injection and Electrical specialist that works on boats/yachts the LINK you gave is childs play !!I could have wrote that
30 years ago......When the Coast Guard AUX PATROL is out looking for a vessel in a PAN_PAN..MAY DAY....SACURTY !! Call,,I'm the guy that makes it
happen...I learned at the age of 20 something ALL Guys think that they know how to fix stuff,,,and are mechanics..HA,,HA.......I NOW VOW NOT TO HELP
ANYMORE ON THIS SITE !!! At 95 A hr and booked out I have better things to do.....BTW...ALL MY WORK IS DONE TO,,,,,ABYC,,NEMA,,CFR standards.....SO
flock OFF!! |
I guess now you wont fix my 2 failed trace 4024 inverters...damn
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by brewer
if you already have the outback controller you really don't need a "mate"
the controller has all the programs to charge the batteries
and equalize them
now if you want the inverter to correctly charge the batteries when it cloudy then you need the mate
the charger in the outback is really good and powerful |
I have AGM's. I thought you don't equalize those? I do want the charger to properly charge the batteries when it's cloudy. I'm in BCN.
Just a question, how does the inverter charge the batteries? I thought it just inverted the power. I'm new to this and really want to understand it.
Thanks. |
Kevin
The outback inverter/charger (and probably most other inverter/chargers) has an AC input. You attach your generator there and the AC output of the
inverter goes to you elec service panel to your house. Now when you start your generator the inverter senses the power on its AC input and once it
determines that the power meets the volt and cycle specs it will let that power from the generator pass through to your elec panel and power your
house. It also uses some of that generator power and charges the batteries. The inverter is programmable and you tell it how much power to pass
through and how much to use to charge your batteries. That way you don't use more power than your generator can produce. No external transfer switches
are necessary, this all happens automatically when you start the generator. When the gen is shut off the inverter automatically switches back to
inverter mode.
Hope this helps
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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larry c has a great system...I like it...good job
but if you use agm batteries why 2v
I understand wet batteries are better if there is more room between the plates
thus 6v versus 12v
but agm are sealed aren't they
so why would you use 2v and not BIG 12v
as the voltage drops the larger cables you need
you MUST have HUGE cables
and if you lose one cell in any of the 6 batteries your system is down
I agree wth the small diesel generator as long as
it spins at 1800rpm and not 3600 like the smaller ones
you probably get great "gas mileage"
for a home generator to work correctly for a long time
you cant use more than half its rated power
...too bad for me...its a little too small
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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"FLUKE 88" ... now that is a nice present ... anytime ... great tool 
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
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I got the china knock off at harbor freight...
...on sale for 2 bucks
this is all an off grid homeowner needs 
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brewer
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 1-4-2011
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
larry c has a great system...I like it...good job
but if you use agm batteries why 2v
I understand wet batteries are better if there is more room between the plates
thus 6v versus 12v
but agm are sealed aren't they
so why would you use 2v and not BIG 12v
as the voltage drops the larger cables you need
you MUST have HUGE cables
and if you lose one cell in any of the 6 batteries your system is down
I agree wth the small diesel generator as long as
it spins at 1800rpm and not 3600 like the smaller ones
you probably get great "gas mileage"
for a home generator to work correctly for a long time
you cant use more than half its rated power
...too bad for me...its a little too small |
Where did 2V come from? I'm running it 12V. So I guess I need the mate to program the inverter for generator use. Right?
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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Hola, Brewer
over the years, I have found "tech support" guys from that make/sell a product to be Very helpful.....You might lookup outback's phone number and get
advice from "the horses mouth" Rather easy......
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1495
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Bob
I get my batteries from a company that changes out battery systems for large industrial complexes. They had these large 2v batteries that were never
installed, had some shipping damage, and were only one year old. I got them for $200 each, so $1200 for the bank. Each battery retails for well over
$1000 each. I use 2v batteries because I don't want to have any parallel strings. I also have observed that most large companies that set up back-up
battery systems use 2v batteries in series with no parallel strings. No need for me to reinvent the wheel.
I have 2 inverters, so from my battery bank to the inverters I use 4/0 cable to each inverter through 2 250 amp circuit breakers.
I don't understand your statement "I understand wet batteries are better if there is more room between the plates
thus 6v versus 12v"
I didn't use a 12v battery because I didn't find one large enough. My 2v batteries are 320# each, a 12v battery equal to my 2v's in amp hour capacity
would weigh almost 2000# and be impossible for me to move around. Using more than one 12v battery would be a parallel bank and I don't want that.
I haven't had a problem with losing batteries in a series string, these large industrial batteries are reliable.
Some day I would love to stop by and see your system, I understand you run a resort off grid, no easy task.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Great stuff ... thanks
"4/0 cable" ... we're talking copper
would love to "see" pictures ... of some of the setup's
[Edited on 12-7-2013 by wessongroup]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larryC
Bob
I get my batteries from a company that changes out battery systems for large industrial complexes. They had these large 2v batteries that were never
installed, had some shipping damage, and were only one year old. I got them for $200 each, so $1200 for the bank. Each battery retails for well over
$1000 each. I use 2v batteries because I don't want to have any parallel strings. I also have observed that most large companies that set up back-up
battery systems use 2v batteries in series with no parallel strings. No need for me to reinvent the wheel.
I have 2 inverters, so from my battery bank to the inverters I use 4/0 cable to each inverter through 2 250 amp circuit breakers.
I don't understand your statement "I understand wet batteries are better if there is more room between the plates
thus 6v versus 12v"
I didn't use a 12v battery because I didn't find one large enough. My 2v batteries are 320# each, a 12v battery equal to my 2v's in amp hour capacity
would weigh almost 2000# and be impossible for me to move around. Using more than one 12v battery would be a parallel bank and I don't want that.
I haven't had a problem with losing batteries in a series string, these large industrial batteries are reliable.
Some day I would love to stop by and see your system, I understand you run a resort off grid, no easy task.
Larry |
Listen to this advice if you want your batteries to last.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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