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latitude26n
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Our favorite BP panels (the most efficient we found for the the desert heat) are "no longer available in the US", which is the refrain we got used to
hearing back in November when we began to set up the system for our new place. We had to be on a couple of waiting lists just to get the initial 5
of the "next-best" panels. Dealers kept repeating that "all the good stuff now goes to Europe cause there's just no market in the US".
Did the article that was posted about the new technolgy mentioned in this thread say anywhere that it would be available in the US?
We considered holding out for more info about hydrogen fuel cells (the byproduct of these is H20), but couldn't wait.
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MrBillM
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Solar in Demand
There is a huge demand for Solar Panels at present in Europe, notably Germany, and in Japan.
Both governments have come out with very attractive rebate programs for home and business owners.
I read a bulletin awhile back from Kyocera describing the details of Germany's program and it was impressive. If we had the same incentive in the
U.S. there would be 100s of thousands taking advantage of it.
I have a friend in the Solar business who has experienced waits of months for Kyoceras. Awhile back, the distributor in Arizona called him and said
they could free up a pallet IF he was there the following a.m. He left that night.
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Braulio
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A lot of the original hype came out of the discovery in the late 70's of plastics that could conduct electricity.
The difference now is that there's a new generation of technology that uses nanotechnology (making and manipulating small things) with new forms of
plastics to make new forms of semiconductor-polymer-photovoltaic devices.
The original link/article caught my eye because one of the research managers was from Cal's College of Chemistry -
There's another prof also from Berkeley's C of Chem (Paul Alivisatos) that has formed a company similar to the one linked (Nanosys) to
develop/promote/sell solar panels (as well as other nano-related things) - he's a pretty bright guy - I've followed his project in the media but
thought that the solar panel part was a couple of years from the marketplace.
I wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to buy the first one - it's practically a given that there'll be glitches and price reductions later on.
Speaking of price - when semiconductors first came out (and semiconductors are really what we're taliking about here) they cost $5.50 per transistor
in the mid fifties. Currently one buck will get you about 2 billion. (that figure came out during some Murphys Law anniversary celebration type deals
this past week.)
Thre're sure to be some topes in the road - but maybe the energy future won't be as bleak as some are predicting.
Anyway - if you're interested - check out:
http://www.nanosysinc.com/
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Sharksbaja
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solar power catch 22
The Solar "Catch 22"
The KPMG report explains that it is not technology or financial barriers that are holding PV out of a mass market, but a simple 'demand and supply'
vicious circle As long as demand is small, production of solar energy will remain small-scale and expensive, and as long as the production is
small-scale and expensive, the price will remain high and the demand small: catch 22."
The KPMG report notes that only two players can break that impasse - government which regulates energy and building, and the industries which own the
technology, such as BP Amoco and Shell. The onus now rests with these two groups to break the solar impasse.
If the solar impasse/"catch 22" is not broken, then solar PV will gradually become cost competitive and reach a mass market. But this may take 30
years, whereas KPMG shows that it could be achieved within a few years rather than decades.
It is no secret that cheaper energy has been available for many years but very strange things happen to patents,inventors,inventions, exhibits,shows,
speeches, speakers, conferences, news releases etc. etc. etc.
Must be some very powerful adversaries out there. The energy market will (soon)eventually see these new innovations. Nano will be a common indusrtry.
Those interested in cutting edge solar power tech. Here are a couple of good sites:
http://nanotech-marketplace.com/nanotechblog/index.php/a/2005/03/07/lbgnano_solar_cells_giant_step_in_solvin
http://www.konarkatech.com/products/
http://ultraconductors.com/primer.html
Other discoveries abound but lack funding or resource.
A method exists to attach to the grid and the power flows through your house and back out to the grid, sort of piggy back-style but the energy
companies will do anything than to let that happen. According to one site, homes can run a generater and reap low cost powerhttp://www.freelectricity.com/
but they have been touting this for quite awhile and have not seen any tangible results.
Quote by el hefe:
"I'll believe this solar development when I see it. I think often early r&d results are hyped up to get investors interested."
You are correct about that...... as I was saying, the follow-through on many energy related projects just fade away or one day the site disappears and
so on. Very strange indeed. Makes one very suspicious, doesn't it. Where's the volts?
My interest lies in 'zero-point energy'. This technology which at the moment is hush-hush will let us leap into a new age of technology. This
ultra-high tech energy source incorporates extemely efficient super(ultra) conductors and super magnets aligned to spin a generator and lose
practically nothing in current generation. It also employs "floating" bearings, of which there are none thus eliminating the friction factor.
Of course there are other amazing technologies emerging dealing with power generation that are very facinating and are probably controlled by
mega-corps and/or gov.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Hook
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Demand in the country could have been given...
....a big boost if Bush's new energy plan he announced yesterday had included something towards solar.
Instead, he favors credits for big business (nuclear, LNG, refiners) that the little guy will continue to be dependent on. The token incentive to the
little guy was an incresed rebate for hybrid and clean diesel cars; areas where the demand already can't keep up with the supply, even without a
federal rebate.
However, I do like his proposal to turn some closed military bases over to the building of NEW refineries. Our lack of refining capacity in this
country is a big part of why our gas/diesel is so expensive.
Emphasizing solar would be such a boon to energy needs in the growth areas of the whole world, the Sun Belts. Anything to encourage
production/research to bring the cost down should be promoted. Implementation is so much quicker than the turnaround time on a refinery or a nuke
plant, too.
Bruce, your figures on the reduced cost of the plastic solar cell generation don't take into account the companies profit margin, which could be
substantial if they are the only game in town.
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Sharksbaja
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I almost threw up...
after seeing Bush schmoozing with those Saudis. De ja
vu? Did we not learn anything in the seventies? As OPEC figures out how to put the screws to us again we start kissing their fat asses again. All the
incentives in the world will never overshadow our already too powerful transportation and energy giants. If a vehicle is/was developed to run 90 mi on
a gal of water, do you suppose GM and EXXON would endorse it. I don't think so!
I say help Mexico and Russia upgrade their production while we figure out how to become independent again..
[Edited on 4-27-2005 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Bruce R Leech
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exactly Sharksbaja
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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Hook
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| Quote: |
I say help Mexico and Russia upgrade their production while we figure out how to become independent again..
[Edited on 4-27-2005 by Sharksbaja] |
We did help Mexico upgrade their production.....then they nationalized our assets. But I agree in concept; I 'd rather be dependent on Mexico than the
Middle East or Venezuela.
Russia, specifically Putin, is becoming very unpredictable. We had high hopes that their exports to us could be played off the Saudis for increased
leverage. But the whole Yukos Oil thing has the Bush Administration feeling untrustworthy of Putin. Putin's latest State of the Union talked of what a
disaster the fall of Communism had been for the average Russian and also hinted that the government might not privatize some key industries.
At least the Guvernator sees the beauty of solar. Yeah, it's expensive, but so are nuke plants and refineries.
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MrBillM
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Mexican Oil
I've always read that a problem with our using Mexican Oil is the high sulphur content.
Although I imagine that we could modify our refineries to process it, the lack of refining capacity is at the root of our current problems. That and
the fact that China is buying so much oil.
Unfortunately, if we started right this minute to expand refinery capacity, it would take years to implement.
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I've always read that a problem with our using Mexican Oil is the high sulphur content.
Although I imagine that we could modify our refineries to process it, the lack of refining capacity is at the root of our current problems. That and
the fact that China is buying so much oil.
Unfortunately, if we started right this minute to expand refinery capacity, it would take years to implement. |
Most of the worlds supply is now high sulphur or "sour" crude, Saudi Arabia included. That's why a Saudi run up wouldn't help us much. We don't have
enough refining capacity.
Of course the capable refiners love it. There is a $15-$17 spread. Sour crude sells for around $33-$35 vs $50+ for sweet.
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