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Lobsterman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1750
Registered: 10-7-2008
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What's the big deal with a border security agent wanting to look at your phone unless you have something to hide. They can search your car and
belongings so why is this any different?
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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We also hire idiots as college professors
Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666  | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy | Actually the ones with the guns and bullets...........
Mao Zedong wrote that "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
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The guys with guns and bullets are pawns controlled by those with money and power.
If you got money and power, you hire dumb cops and naive teenage soldiers to hold the guns and take the bullets. |
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19239
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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And Only an idiot would believe I am a college professor! 
| Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy | We also hire idiots as college professors
| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaguy | Actually the ones with the guns and bullets...........
Mao Zedong wrote that "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
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The guys with guns and bullets are pawns controlled by those with money and power.
If you got money and power, you hire dumb cops and naive teenage soldiers to hold the guns and take the bullets. |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Ummmm, don't think I mentioned anyone in particular, but if the shoe fits.........
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3851
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"... border security agent wanting to look at your phone unless you have something to hide. They can search your car and belongings so why is this any
different"
(i) Cell phones differ in both a quantitative and a qualitative sense from other objects that might be carried on an arrestee's person. Notably,
modern cell phones have an immense storage capacity. Before cell phones, a search of a person was limited by physical realities and generally
constituted only a narrow intrusion on privacy. But cell phones can store millions of pages of text, thousands of pictures, or hundreds of videos.
This has several interrelated privacy consequences. First, a cell phone collects in one place many distinct types of information that reveal much more
in combination than any isolated record. Second, the phone's capacity allows even just one type of information to convey far more than previously
possible. Third, data on the phone can date back for years. In addition, an element of pervasiveness characterizes cell phones but not physical
records. A decade ago officers might have occasionally stumbled across a highly personal item such as a diary, but today many of the more than 90% of
American adults who own cell phones keep on their person a digital record of nearly every aspect of their lives." Riley v. United States 573 U.S. ___
(2014).
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Be sure you tell the CBP that when they ask........Let us know how it works out for you
| Quote: Originally posted by wilderone | "
(i) Cell phones differ in both a quantitative and a qualitative sense from other objects that might be carried on an arrestee's person. Notably,
modern cell phones have an immense storage capacity. Before cell phones, a search of a person was limited by physical realities and generally
constituted only a narrow intrusion on privacy. But cell phones can store millions of pages of text, thousands of pictures, or hundreds of videos.
This has several interrelated privacy consequences. First, a cell phone collects in one place many distinct types of information that reveal much more
in combination than any isolated record. Second, the phone's capacity allows even just one type of information to convey far more than previously
possible. Third, data on the phone can date back for years. In addition, an element of pervasiveness characterizes cell phones but not physical
records. A decade ago officers might have occasionally stumbled across a highly personal item such as a diary, but today many of the more than 90% of
American adults who own cell phones keep on their person a digital record of nearly every aspect of their lives." Riley v. United States 573 U.S. ___
(2014).
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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YUP! Lotsa keyboard courage here..as I said before..The HS guys will do what they want....
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Well, I agree the CPB pretty much do what they want, they still need reasonable suspicion to do the more invasive searches, which also includes those
phone and computer searches.
The CPB also doesn't have the full backing of the Supreme court, as the last two important rulings from the lower courts, actually supported our
privacy rights against their random searches of computers and cell phones. The Supreme court, refused to hear a few of these cases, so the last
appeals court ruling stands.
There are also conflicting court rulings, loopholes in the law, and their own interpretations of the law, they use to ask for your passwords, and
search your phones.
DaliDali, when those CBP agents treated you like a perverted sex tourist, just because you visited Thailand, you should have demanded more respect
from them before you turned over your digital cameras or phone. You should have demanded a specific reason why they wanted to invade your privacy and
look through your photos.
The mere fact you visited Thailand, probably doesn't give them probably cause or reasonable suspicion to search your electronic devices, unless there
were other red flags you gave them.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19239
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
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Mood: Weary
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Makes sense to me Goatley..Argue with a GS14 who transferred into HS from the post office to save his pension....
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
DaliDali, when those CBP agents treated you like a perverted sex tourist, just because you visited Thailand, you should have demanded more respect
from them before you turned over your digital cameras or phone. You should have demanded a specific reason why they wanted to invade your privacy and
look through your photos.
The mere fact you visited Thailand, probably doesn't give them probably cause or reasonable suspicion to search your electronic devices, unless there
were other red flags you gave them.
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This is the difference between reasonable and rational people and those who espouse anarchy.
I didn't mind one iota that those international port of entry agents searched anything and everything I own, or had control of at that time.
I see it as them doing their jobs to prevent or interdict crime and criminals.
But since anarchists like you and a goat don't like it, I can feel your pain and I would invite you to feel as much pain as is physically possible,
over a lifetime if necessary. Headaches, constipation, hives, night sweats...it's all good to vanish this pain you both feel.
I KNEW precisely why those airport agents detained me and searched my belongings.....it was totally unnecessary to to waste everyone's time and ask
the stupid Q of why.
If those officers detect ONE pedofile, child pornography trafficker or child trafficker.....I am all in on that and if I have to relinquish my
"rights", so be it. And it pains me to know that you don't feel the same.
In the end, my personal travels to various locations around the world are not your business are they? Kindly refrain from prying into those personal
travels and my personal interactions with these agents on a public forum.
What is your business, is to determine if your going to continue to be active anarchist and openly defy a lawful order or directive from a law
enforcement officer because you "know your rights"
And look below if you need to refresh your memory on the legality of border agents to do their search thing and "your rights" at an international
border into the USA.
I would invite you and a goat to file a brief with the US Supreme court and make your case to overturn their ruling, rather than bloviating and
bleating your hatred towards LE on any level, as a means to sway Baja affectionados opinions on the wonderment of anarchy.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/176/~/cbp-searc...
And if the above is not clear to you and a goat, here is an expanded legal determination, with citations and rulings, that uphold a border agents
legality to do what they do at the border.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/RL31826.pdf
[Edited on 2-28-2017 by DaliDali] |
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
No doubt DaliDali would also be OK with a body cavity search to, by the CBP thugs at the border for any reason, and he wouldn't mind at all, if they
told him to "spread em" because the CBP was acting on a random whim or thought he was cute.
I think most people would be outraged over body cavity searches, computer or phone searches, unless the CBP had reasonable legal grounds to make such
searches.
One way the CPB jackbooted thugs, and even regular cops get away with unreasonable searches, is they simply ask you permission.
Take the Nancy Reagan's approach, and just tell them NO! Tell them they don't have your permission, but if they are following the letter of the law,
you aren't going to stop them, but you want on record, you told them no to the searches.
I also wouldn't trust some self serving link from the CPB, and would instead look for links from the ACLU, and the Electronic Frontier, both groups
are fighting for our privacy rights, and our rights from unnecessary searches and seizures, including the protection of our electronic devices from
random snooping.
If you notice on the CBP link they cite old Supreme Court rulings, and they are still using the same outdated written policy since 2009. There have
been other more recent federal court cases challenging the CBP written policy since 2009, when it comes to electronic devices.
[Edited on 2-28-2017 by JoeJustJoe]
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
No doubt DaliDali would also be OK with a body cavity search to, by the CBP thugs at the border for any reason, and he wouldn't mind at all, if they
told him to "spread em" because the CBP was acting on a random whim or thought he was cute.
I think most people would be outraged over body cavity searches, computer or phone searches, unless the CBP had reasonable legal grounds to make such
searches.
One way the CPB jackbooted thugs, and even regular cops get away with unreasonable searches, is they simply ask you permission.
Take the Nancy Reagan's approach, and just tell them NO! Tell them they don't have your permission, but if they are following the letter of the law,
you aren't going to stop them, but you want on record, you told them no to the searches.
I also wouldn't trust some self serving link from the CPB, and would instead look for links from the ACLU, and the Electronic Frontier, both groups
are fighting for our privacy rights, and our rights from unnecessary searches and seizures, including the protection of our electronic devices from
random snooping.
If you notice on the CBP link they cite old Supreme Court rulings, and they are still using the same outdated written policy since 2009. There have
been other more recent federal court cases challenging the CBP written policy since 2009, when it comes to electronic devices.
Edited on 2-28-2017 by JoeJustJoe] |
Reality says you don't know what I would do or not do right?
No doubt?....does your exalted grand wizard anarchist leader give you such powers of insight and grand observation?
And frankly, it's none of your business......again.
Now you're moving into pure nonsense in making wild assumptions, none of which is based on facts and reality...but more of how an anarchist sees the
world around him.
Regarding 2009 rulings concerning CBP activities at the border....would it be reasonably safe to assume that if any rulings or decisions that directly
affect the legality of what those officers do, is posted up on an official dot gov website, be up to date and valid?....
Since 2009, those border officers are acting unilaterally and outside of legal authority.....and any recent rulings regarding their activities at the
border, now make what they do outside the law and outside their legal authority. Are you sure this is the line you want a reasonable person to have
faith in?
This is wildly beyond what a reasonable person would assume.....but anarchists, by definition are not reasonable sorts are they?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy
Then you continue to pontificate the anarchists line without one iota of reference, citations, rulings and or any other means of proving a point,
other than the word of anarchist Joe.
What would a reasonable person do to explore what the CBP agents can or cannot do?...the ACLU or an official dot gov website that defines, with
citations and links to REAL US statutes?....
The ACLU can only make a "opinion" on what they "think" is the real deal and are not the arbiters of fact who issue genuine and binding decisions of
the law.
I am finished with you Joe, and your pal Goat....
Have a great time trying to convince the members of this site that anarchy is the only way to achieve salvation and a better life.
Next time you pass into the USA from a foreign country, just tell those officers, no you wont, and inform us all how that works out for you.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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I'm really too busy at work to go go digging for Federal court cases that challenge the CBP ability to do random searches on your phones and
computers, but I know for sure the CBP written policy is out of date, and this is a very grey area of the law especially when it comes to searches
at the border.
The CBP exploits the grey area of the law with their expanded phone and computer searches, which BTW is expected to get worse under the current US
administration, especially if you're a foreigner.
But for sure, the CBP better at least have reasonable suspicion, before they ask to search your phone or computer, especially if they are demanding
your passwords.
Here are some highlights from a senior staff attorney from the " Electronic Frontier Foundation, written in this article:
______________________-
Electronic media searches at border crossings raise worry
The American Civil Liberties Union and the Electronic Frontier Foundation both say they have noticed an uptick in complaints about searches of digital
devices by border agents.
The increase has become most noticeable in the last month, said Adam Schwartz, a senior staff lawyer at the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
"We are concerned that a bad practice that has existed under past presidents has gotten worse in quantity under the new president," Schwartz said.
The government says nothing has changed. Customs officials also say the perceived shift can be attributed to a jump in the number of electronic
devices that people are carrying with them and shifting tactics as the agency adjusts to the amount and types of information that can be stored on
today's devices.
WHAT SEARCH AUTHORITY DOES THE BORDER PROTECTION HAVE?
Americans have protection under the Fourth Amendment from unreasonable search and seizure.
A police officer, for example, must obtain a warrant from a judge before searching a suspect's phone.
But the U.S. border is a legal gray zone. Border agents have long had the right to search travelers' physical luggage without a warrant, and that
interpretation has been expanded to include digital devices, ACLU staff attorney Nathan Freed Wessler said.
In 2013, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that if agents want to do a forensic search they need to have a reasonable suspicion of
wrongdoing, he said. But the court stopped short of requiring agents to obtain a search warrant beforehand, he said.
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-02-electronic-media-border.html#j...
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Bubba
Senior Nomad
Posts: 957
Registered: 2-17-2009
Location: Pismo Beach, Ca.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
You do understand that Liberals did not "raise their voice", they didn't even "protest", they actually rioted, correct? You do understand that the
people voted, correct? You do understand that we have a new Commander in Chief of the free world due to the people voting, correct? You do understand
that you can leave the greatest nation in the world at any given time, correct? Last but not least, you do realize that we won't miss you, correct?
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3564
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
You do understand that Liberals did not "raise their voice", they didn't even "protest", they actually rioted, correct? You do understand that the
people voted, correct? You do understand that we have a new Commander in Chief of the free world due to the people voting, correct? You do understand
that you can leave the greatest nation in the world at any given time, correct? Last but not least, you do realize that we won't miss you, correct?
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Meaningless drivel from the booty wipe supporter. Check your facts. Prez pu$$ygrabber won the electoral vote, lost the popular vote big time.
Millions more voted for Clinton. I didn't vote.
Your commander in butt wipe is a bully and narcissist.
#NotMyPresident -- not now not ever; embarrassed to see him in the WH; ashamed to admit I'm a US citizen. I'm Canadian and Mexican until he's run
out of office.
Millions understand what I'm writing. We will make your prez miserable and wish he'd stayed out of politics.
Was Prez Obama your commander in chief? Doubt it, bubbie. Save your bullshlt for the rural poor uneducated trash out there. Positive they think
you're correct in your drivel.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19239
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
You do understand that Liberals did not "raise their voice", they didn't even "protest", they actually rioted, correct? You do understand that the
people voted, correct? You do understand that we have a new Commander in Chief of the free world due to the people voting, correct? You do understand
that you can leave the greatest nation in the world at any given time, correct? Last but not least, you do realize that we won't miss you, correct?
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I do understand that president pussy grabber is an abomination that will pass in no more than 4 years, and I do understand you are an a$$wipe 
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Bubba
Senior Nomad
Posts: 957
Registered: 2-17-2009
Location: Pismo Beach, Ca.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Bubba | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali | Not only can they do what they want, those CBP agents have the full backing of the Supreme court to do what they do without a warrant or probable
cause.
Some get severe constipation over this issue but it is what it is. |
Only sheeple stay quiet when faced with fascists. People should always raise their voice against injustice. Liberals know this. Sadly, Conservatives
have forgotten. |
You do understand that Liberals did not "raise their voice", they didn't even "protest", they actually rioted, correct? You do understand that the
people voted, correct? You do understand that we have a new Commander in Chief of the free world due to the people voting, correct? You do understand
that you can leave the greatest nation in the world at any given time, correct? Last but not least, you do realize that we won't miss you, correct?
|
I do understand that president pussy grabber is an abomination that will pass in no more than 4 years, and I do understand you are an a$$wipe |
Name calling is all you got skippy? Sit down, shut up and listen ok cupcake? We have a lot of work to do over the next 7 yrs 10 months, take notes and
buckle up, we're going for a ride.
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mjs
Nomad
Posts: 324
Registered: 2-20-2013
Location: Off grid in San Felipe
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lee |
#NotMyPresident -- not now not ever; embarrassed to see him in the WH; ashamed to admit I'm a US citizen. I'm Canadian and Mexican until he's run
out of office.
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This statement really bugs me.
You didn't have to have voted for him. You don't have to like him or his policies and administration. But if you are an American citizen, he IS your
president. Good or bad (and I suspect this depends on someone's personal feelings :lol , Trump won the electoral college vote and that makes him the President of all Americans.
Now if you really don't want him to be YOUR President then the US has an option for that. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/renunciation-of-citizenship.html
So suck it up for the rest of his term and work to get somebody you like elected next time. Or work to get Trump re-elected if you like what he's
doing a few years from now. But in the mean time we Americans all have the same POTUS.
/Rant off
[Edited on 3-3-2017 by mjs]
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