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John M
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Before the race this spot specifically was talked about
On the Fististics Baja 500 prerace program, this wash and the dirt roads crossing it were talked about, and cautions that ought to be observed.
Obviously not everyone was watching. Scroll to minute 1:11+
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Z8MhMt3xQ
In on the discussion was the SCORE race director.
[Edited on 6-7-2025 by John M]
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surabi
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So all Mexican villagers anywhere near the race course are expected to read the pre-race program and watch a youtube video in order not to be in
danger?
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surabi
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You started your post with "I'm not defending anyone". I'm the one who asked why you were defending the race driver.
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digcolnagos
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My two cents, which is worth what it will buy.
The optics are horrible. "Local dies! Racer flies!" headlined the story posted by race organizers, like the National Enquirer. And right next to click
here for information on Friday's pre-race party in Ensenada. No statement of condolences from race organizers that I've been able to find until four
days after the fact.
From what I've gathered, this spot is controlled on race day. If it is controlled on race day, why isn't it controlled during pre-runs or whatever
these practice sessions are called? I've lived in Baja for less than a year. I'd have zero idea that this was going on, even with a chopper above and
folks alongside the route. That could have been me, is what I think.
Then there's the driver, and maybe whoever was riding shotgun, getting helicoptered out while leaving a gravely injured person behind. The driver was
reportedly helicoptered to a U.S. hospital. We don't know how seriously he was injured. Neither race organizers nor the team has said. At last report,
some sort of settlement has been reached with the family of the dead man.
It smacks, sorry, of folks doing whatever the heck they want, and, if someone gets killed, you can buy your way out of it, and don't ask questions.
It's hard to imagine something like this happening in the U.S. without race organizers getting the bejeebers sued out of them.
I'll try keeping an open mind. We don't have enough information to make solid judgments, and that's a huge part of the problem. But to say, "Hey,
these races have been going on since Nixon was president, what's the issue?" does not, to me, seem an appropriate way to look at it. It seems to me
that the racer and race organizers both have a lot of 'splaining to do. That folks seem not be saying anything--where was the racer taken, what's his
condition, was there a co-driver, what's his status, why aren't controls placed in places during practice sessions that are in place on race day
(assuming that's the case) among other things--speaks volumes, at least, in my book.
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surabi
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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos  | | …why aren't controls placed in places during practice sessions that are in place on race day (assuming that's the case) among other things--speaks
volumes, at least, in my book. |
The controls are sort of there… The racers are told verbally and in writing multiple times that the course is open and they are to go slow. The
scene of the accident was specifically mentioned as one of the public road xings that required caution. The racer apparently ignored all instructions
about using caution, and he barreled into that poor victim at 80 mph…
Better question, why is pre-running allowed at race speeds? Seems they could put gps on the cars and ban anyone who violates the rules… they have
gps tracking on race day, so why not on pre-race days?
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos | "Local dies! Racer flies!" headlined the story posted by race organizers, like the National Enquirer. And right next to click here for information on
Friday's pre-race party in Ensenada. No statement of condolences from race organizers that I've been able to find until four days after the fact.
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Wow. That's truly disgusting. And makes it pretty obvious that these are a bunch of entitled yahoos, just as I said.
Didn't something similar happen a year or two ago when a bystander got hit and killed by an inexperienced driver? The race organizers just carried on
with their racing and advertising and partying and didn't even offer condolences until far too late to be an expression of any sincere caring?
[Edited on 6-8-2025 by surabi]
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mtgoat666
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Posts: 19681
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos | "Local dies! Racer flies!" headlined the story posted by race organizers, like the National Enquirer. And right next to click here for information on
Friday's pre-race party in Ensenada. No statement of condolences from race organizers that I've been able to find until four days after the fact.
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Wow. That's truly disgusting. And makes it pretty obvious that these are a bunch of entitled yahoos, just as I said. |
Maybe the advertised party was a wake? I mean, the race promoter wouldn’t really have a party after they killed someone, would they?
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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ligui
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Just look at the video ! Pretty obvious who is at fault . I love racing but this was not right.
Then to take a helicopter to the states . Give me break
Nice to be Rich. 
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surabi
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Exactly- one can love racing without defending this kind of irresponsible yahoo behavior.
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4x4abc
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Posts: 4430
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| Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos | My two cents, which is worth what it will buy.
The optics are horrible. "Local dies! Racer flies!" headlined the story posted by race organizers, like the National Enquirer. And right next to click
here for information on Friday's pre-race party in Ensenada. No statement of condolences from race organizers that I've been able to find until four
days after the fact.
From what I've gathered, this spot is controlled on race day. If it is controlled on race day, why isn't it controlled during pre-runs or whatever
these practice sessions are called? I've lived in Baja for less than a year. I'd have zero idea that this was going on, even with a chopper above and
folks alongside the route. That could have been me, is what I think.
Then there's the driver, and maybe whoever was riding shotgun, getting helicoptered out while leaving a gravely injured person behind. The driver was
reportedly helicoptered to a U.S. hospital. We don't know how seriously he was injured. Neither race organizers nor the team has said. At last report,
some sort of settlement has been reached with the family of the dead man.
It smacks, sorry, of folks doing whatever the heck they want, and, if someone gets killed, you can buy your way out of it, and don't ask questions.
It's hard to imagine something like this happening in the U.S. without race organizers getting the bejeebers sued out of them.
I'll try keeping an open mind. We don't have enough information to make solid judgments, and that's a huge part of the problem. But to say, "Hey,
these races have been going on since Nixon was president, what's the issue?" does not, to me, seem an appropriate way to look at it. It seems to me
that the racer and race organizers both have a lot of 'splaining to do. That folks seem not be saying anything--where was the racer taken, what's his
condition, was there a co-driver, what's his status, why aren't controls placed in places during practice sessions that are in place on race day
(assuming that's the case) among other things--speaks volumes, at least, in my book. |
why do you think Mericans started to go off road racing in Mexico? Because they can't do it at home. Since the beginning there have been conflicts
with land owners - settled with money to the politicians, not the land owners. Deadly accidents with locals happen often - settled with money to the
family. For 5 grand they with their uncle would have been killed as well.
Harald Pietschmann
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digcolnagos
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 9-4-2023
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by digcolnagos | | …why aren't controls placed in places during practice sessions that are in place on race day (assuming that's the case) among other things--speaks
volumes, at least, in my book. |
The controls are sort of there… The racers are told verbally and in writing multiple times that the course is open and they are to go slow. The
scene of the accident was specifically mentioned as one of the public road xings that required caution. The racer apparently ignored all instructions
about using caution, and he barreled into that poor victim at 80 mph…
Better question, why is pre-running allowed at race speeds? Seems they could put gps on the cars and ban anyone who violates the rules… they have
gps tracking on race day, so why not on pre-race days? |
GPS monitoring that includes meaningful penalties sounds like a good idea. It would be interesting to know if this is being considered and, if not,
why not. According to the Score website, there are four races each year that take place over 26 days. That seems like a lot of days, but I'm no
expert. If these events aren't designed to be as safe as possible, that isn't good.
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surabi
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Motorized vehicle racing is a dangerous sport. If drivers want to participate in it, that's their choice- they know the risks. But race organizers
failing to have safety protocols in place to protect innocent bystanders and people who live along the route is unconscionable.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19681
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Location: San Diego
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Motorized vehicle racing is a dangerous sport. If drivers want to participate in it, that's their choice- they know the risks. But race organizers
failing to have safety protocols in place to protect innocent bystanders and people who live along the route is unconscionable.
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The american promoters run these races in mexico because safety and environmental norms in the usa are too restrictive. Apparently mexico is more
accepting of the death tolls, environmental impacts and road damage.
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3734
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
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Mood: muy amable
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Motorized vehicle racing is a dangerous sport. If drivers want to participate in it, that's their choice- they know the risks. But race organizers
failing to have safety protocols in place to protect innocent bystanders and people who live along the route is unconscionable.
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The american promoters run these races in mexico because safety and environmental norms in the usa are too restrictive. Apparently mexico is more
accepting of the death tolls, environmental impacts and road damage. |
Apparently you are not aware of the Mint 400
Run each year outside of Las Vegas
So much for another of your theories
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surabi
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??? Goat didn't say there were none of these type races in the US. He said promoters like to hold races in Mexico because of lack of regulations.
Googling the Mint 400 makes it clear they have many regs and environmental and safety protocols in place, for instance spectators staying within
designated, protected areas.
"Spectator Safety: Spectators are advised to stay within fenced areas and keep children close by."
And then there is this:
"Respect the Environment: Do not drive vehicles into the desert or park on vegetation."
They also have extensive regulations for helicopters and drones, and media.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | ??? Goat didn't say there were none of these type races in the US. He said promoters like to hold races in Mexico because of lack of regulations.
Googling the Mint 400 makes it clear they have many regs and environmental and safety protocols in place, for instance spectators staying within
designated, protected areas.
"Spectator Safety: Spectators are advised to stay within fenced areas and keep children close by."
And then there is this:
"Respect the Environment: Do not drive vehicles into the desert or park on vegetation."
They also have extensive regulations for helicopters and drones, and media.
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By that logic, then it is up to Mexico to add these conditions and not blame SCORE, CODE, or the other race organizers for lack of regulations... is
it not? Off highway races are also run in Saudi Arabia and Australia... plus many more I am sure. People want the sport and people make up the rules.
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surabi
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The regulations I read re the Mint 400 seem to be the organizers' regulations, not just following some federal regulations, so no, it is not "by that
logic up to Mexico to add these conditions". Although they certainly could. This was Goat's point- there is a lack of regulations and enforcement in
Mexico, not to mention a culture of bribery that makes it an attractive place to hold these events.
As I'm sure you are aware, Mexico isn't big on safety and prevention. It's more like don't do anything until it's too late. For instance, in the US
and Canada, electric companies send crews around to trim branches that are hanging over the electrical lines. In Mexico, they wait until a branch
breaks in a storm and the entire area has no electric for hours until they send someone to remove the branch and fix the line. And forget about
highway safety- you can have all your kids sitting in the back of an open pickup, barreling down the highway, so if you get rear-ended, your children
will be dead or seriously injured.
[Edited on 6-10-2025 by surabi]
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | The regulations I read re the Mint 400 seem to be the organizers' regulations, not just following some federal regulations, so no, it is not "by that
logic up to Mexico to add these conditions". Although they certainly could. This was Goat's point- there is a lack of regulations and enforcement in
Mexico, not to mention a culture of bribery that makes it an attractive place to hold these events.
As I'm sure you are aware, Mexico isn't big on safety and prevention. It's more like don't do anything until it's too late. For instance, in the US
and Canada, electric companies send crews around to trim branches that are hanging over the electrical lines. In Mexico, they wait until a branch
breaks in a storm and the entire area has no electric for hours until they send someone to remove the branch and fix the line. And forget about
highway safety- you can have all your kids sitting in the back of an open pickup, barreling down the highway, so if you get rear-ended, your children
will be dead or seriously injured.
[Edited on 6-10-2025 by surabi] |
Many of us are attracted to Mexico because of the lack of laws and it not being a "nanny state".
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digcolnagos
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Shouldn't there be a moral obligation to make things as safe as possible, whether the race is in the U.S. or Mexico or Australia or wherever?
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