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Al G
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Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Greater Mexican Immigrations Is a must
The best read I can find, for our need for legal Mexican Immigration and much more of it
Originally written for CEO's WORTH TEN MINUTES PER DAY TO READ:
Herb Meyer served during the Reagan administration as special assistant to the Director of Central Intelligence and Vice Chairman of the CIA's
National Intelligence Council. In these positions, he managed
production of the U.S. National Intelligence Estimates and other top-secret projections for the President and his national security advisers.
Meyer is widely credited with being the first senior U.S. Government official to forecast the Soviet Union's collapse, for which he later was awarded
the U.S. National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal, the intelligence community's highest honor. Formerly an associate editor of FORTUNE, he is
also the author of
several books.
HERBERT MEYER FOUR MAJOR TRANSFORMATIONS
Currently, there are four major transformations that are shaping political, ec onomic and world events. These
transformations have profound implications for American business owners, our culture and our way of life.
1. The War in Iraq
There are three major monotheistic religions in the world: Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
In the 16th century, Judaism and Christianity reconciled with the modern world. The rabbis, priests and
scholars found a way to settle up and pave the way forward. Religion remained at the center of life, church and state became separate. Rule of law,
idea of economic liberty, individual rights, human Rights-all these are defining points of modern Western civilization. These concepts started with
the Greeks but didn't take
off until the 15th and 16th century when Judaism and Christianity found a way to reconcile with the modern world. When that happened, it unleashed
the scientific revolution and the greatest outpouring of art, literature and music the world has ever known.
Islam, which developed in the 7th century, counts millions of Moslems around the world who are normal people. However, there is a radical streak
within Islam. When the radicals are in charge, Islam&nbs p;attacks Western civilization. Islam first attacked Western civilization in the 7th
century, and later in the 16th and 17th centuries. By 1683, the Moslems (Turks from the Ottoman Empire) were literally at the gates of Vienna. It was
in Vienna that the climatic battle between Islam and Western civilization took place. The West won and went forward. Islam lost and went backward.
Interestingly, the date of that battle was September 11. Since them, Islam has not found a way to reconcile with the modern world.
Today, terrorism is the third attack on Western civilization by radical Islam. To deal with terrorism, the U.S. is doing two things. First, units of
our armed forces are in 30 countries around the world hunting down terrorist groups and dealing with them. This gets very little publicity. Second we
are taking military action in Afghanistan and Iraq. These are covered relentless ly by the media. People can argue about whether the war
in Iraq is right or wrong. However, the underlying strategy behind the war is to use our military to remove the radicals from power and give the
moderates a chance. Our hope is that, over time, the moderates will find a
way to bring Islam forward into the 21st century. That's what our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan is all about.
The lesson of 9/11 is that we live in a world where a small number of people can kill a large number of people very quickly. They can use airplanes,
bombs, anthrax, chemical weapons or dirty bombs. Even with a first-rate intelligence service (which the U.S. does not have), you can't stop every
attack. That means our tolerance for political horseplay has dropped to zero. No longer will we play games with terrorists or weapons of mass
destructions.
Most of the instability and horseplay is coming from the Middle East. That's why we have thought that if we
could knock out the radicals and give the moderates a chance to hold power, they might find a way to reconcile Islam with the modern world. So when
looking at Afghanistan or Iraq, it's important to look for any
signs that they are modernizing. For example, women being brought into the workforce and colleges in Afghanistan is good. The Iraqis stumbling toward
a constitution is good. People can argue about what the U.S. is doing and how we're doing it, but anything that suggests Islam is finding its way
forward is good.
2. The Emergence of China
In the last 20 years, China has moved 250 million people from the farms and villages into the cities. Their plan is to move another 300 million in the
next 20 years. When you put that many people into the cities, you have to find work for them. That's why China is addicted to manufac turing; they
have to put all the relocated people to work. When we decide to manufacture something in the U.S., it's based on market needs and
the opportunity to make a profit. In China, they make the decision because they want the jobs, which is a very different calculation.
While China is addicted to manufacturing, Americans are addicted to low prices. As a result, a unique kind of economic codependency has developed
between the two countries. If we ever stop buying from China, they will explode politically. If China stops selling to us, our economy will take a
huge hit because prices will jump. We are subsidizing their economic development; they are subsidizing our economic growth.
Because of their huge growth in manufacturing, China is hungry for raw materials, which drives prices up worldwide. China is also thirsty for oil,
which is one reason oil is now at $60 a barrel. By 2020, China will
produce more cars than the U.S. China is also buying its way into the oil infrastructure around the world. They are doing it in the open market and
paying fair market prices, but millions of barrels of oil that would have gone to the U.S. are now going to China. China's quest to assure it has the
oil it needs to fuel its economy is a major factor in world politics and economics. We have our Navy fleets protecting the sea
lines, specifically the ability to get the tankers through. It won't be long before the Chinese have an aircraft carrier sitting in the Persian Gulf
as well. The question is, will their aircraft carrier be pointing in the same direction as ours or against us?
3. Shifting Demographics of Western Civilization
Most countries in the Western world have stopped breeding. For a civilization obsessed with sex, this is remarkable. Maintaining a steady population
requires a birth rate of 2.1. In Western Europe, the birth rate
currently stands at 1.5, or 30 percent below replacement. In 30 years there will be 70 to 80 million fewer Europeans than there are today. The current
birth rate in Germany is 1.3. Italy and Spain are even lower at 1.2. At that rate, the working age population declines by 30 percent in 20 years,
which has a huge impact on the economy.
When you don't have young workers to replace the older ones, you have to import them. The European countries are currently importing Moslems. Today,
the Moslems comprise 10 percent of France and Germany, and the percentage is rising rapidly because they have higher birthrates. However, the Moslem
populations are not being integrated into the cultures of their host countries, which is a political catastrophe. One reason Germany and France don't
suppo rt the Iraq war is they fear their Moslem populations will explode on them. By 2020, more than half of all births in the Netherlands will be
non-European.
The huge design flaw in the post-modern secular state is that you need a traditional religious society birth rate to sustain it. The Europeans simply
don't wish to have children, so they are dying.
In Japan, the birthrate is 1.3. As a result, Japan will lose up to 60 million people over the next 30 years. Because Japan has a very different
society than Europe, they refuse to import workers. Instead, they are
just shutting down. Japan has already closed 2000 schools, and is closing them down at the rate of 300 per year. Japan is also aging very rapidly. By
2020, one out of every five Japanese will be at least 70 years old. Nobody has any idea about how to run an economy with those demographics. Europe
and Japan, which comprise two of the world's major economic engines, aren't merely in recession, they're shutting down.
This will have a huge impact on the world economy, and it is already beginning to happen. Why are the birthrates so low? There is a direct correlation
between abandonment of traditional religious society and a drop in birth rate, and Christianity in Europe is becoming irrelevant. The second reason is
economic. When the birth rate drops below replacement, the population ages. With fewer working people to support more retired people, it puts a
crushing tax burden on the smaller group of working age people. As a result, young people delay marriage and having a family. Once this trend starts,
the downward spiral only gets worse. These countries have abandoned all the traditions they formerly held in regards to having families and raising
children.
The U.S. birth rate is 2.0, just below replacement. We have an increase in population because of migration. When broken down by ethnicity, the Anglo
birth rate is 1.6 (same as France) while the Hispanic birth rate is
2.7. In the U.S., the baby boomers are starting to retire in massive numbers. This will push the elder dependency ratio from 19 to 38 over the next 10
to 15 years. This is not as bad as Europe, but still represents the same kind of trend.
Western civilization seems to have forgotten what every primitive society understands-you need kids to have a healthy society. Children are huge
consumers. Then they grow up to become taxpayers. That's how a
society works, but the post-modern secular state seems to have forgotten that.If U.S. birth rates of the past 20 to 30 years had been the same as
post-World War II, there would be no Social Security or Medicare
problems.
The world's most effective birth contr ol device is money. As society creates a middle class and women move into the workforce, birth rates drop.
Having large families is incompatible with middle class living. The quickest way to drop the birth rate is through rapid economic development. After
World War II, the U.S. instituted a $600 tax credit per child. The idea was to enable mom and dad to have four children without
being troubled by taxes. This led to a baby boom of 22 million kids, which was a huge consumer market that turned into a huge tax base. However, to
match that incentive in today's dollars would cost $12,000 per child.
China and India do not have declining populations. However, in both countries, there is a preference for boys over girls, and we now have the
technology to know which is which before they are born. In China and India, many families are aborting the girls. As a result, in each of these&n
bsp;countries there are 70 million boys growing up who will never find wives. When left alone, nature produces 103 boys for every 100 girls. In some
provinces, however, the ratio is 128 boys to every 100 girls. The birth rate in Russia is so low that by 2050 their population will be smaller than
that of Yemen. Russia has one-sixth of the earth's land surface and much of its oil. You can't control that much area with such a small population.
Immediately to the south, you have China with 70 million unmarried men are a real potential nightmare scenario for Russia.
4. Restructuring of American Business
The fourth major transformation involves a fundamental restructuring of American business. Today's business environment is very complex and
competitive. To succeed, you have to be the best, which means having the highest quality and lowest cost. Whatever your price point, you must have
the best quality and lowest price. To be the best, you have to concentrate on one thing. You can't be all things to all people and be the best.
A generation ago, IBM used to make every part of their computer. Now Intel makes the chips, Microsoft makes the software, and someone else makes the
modems, hard drives, monitors, etc. IBM even out sources their call center. Because IBM has all these companies supplying goods and services cheaper
and better than they could do it themselves, they can make a better computer at a lower cost. This is called a fracturing of business. When one
company can make a better product by relying on others to perform
functions the business used to do itself, it creates a complex pyramid of companies that serve and support each other.
This fracturing of American business is now in its second generation. The companies who supply IBM are now doing the same thing-outsourcing many of
their core services and production process. As a result, they can make cheaper, better products. Over time, th is pyramid continues to get bigger and
bigger. Just when you think it can't fracture again, it does. Even very small businesses can have a large pyramid of corporate entities that perform
many of its important functions. One aspect of this trend is that companies end up with fewer employees and more independent contractors.
This trend has also created two new words in > business: integrator and complementor. At the top of the pyramid, IBM is the integrator. As you go
down the pyramid, Microsoft, Intel and the other companies that
support IBM are the complementors. However, each of the complementors is itself an integrator for the complementors underneath it. This has several
implications, the first of which is that we are now getting false readings on the economy. People who used to be employees are now independent
contractors launching their own businesses. There are many peo ple working whose work is not listed as a job. As a result, the economy is perking
along better than the numbers are telling us.
Outsourcing also confused the numbers. Suppose a company like General Motors decides to outsource all its employee cafeteria functions to Marriott
(which it did). It lays off hundreds of cafeteria workers, who then get hired right back by Marriott. The only thing that has changed is that these
people work for Marriott rather than GM. Yet, the headlines will scream that America has lost more manufacturing jobs. All that really happened is
that these workers are now reclassified as service workers. So the old way of counting jobs contributes to false economic readings. As yet, we haven't
figured out how to make the numbers catch up with the changing realities of the business world.
Another implication of this massive restructuring is that because companies are getting rid of units and people that used to work for them, the entity
is smaller. As the companies get smaller and more efficient, revenues are going down but profits are going up. As a result, the old notion that
revenues are up and we're doing great isn't always the case anymore. Companies are getting smaller but are becoming more efficient and profitable in
the process.
IMPLICATIONS OF THE FOUR TRANSFORMATIONS
1. The War in Iraq
In some ways, the war is going well. Afghanistan and Iraq have the beginnings of a modern government, which is a huge step forward. The Saudis are
starting to talk about some good things, while Egypt and Lebanon are beginning to move in a good direction.
A series of revolutions have taken place in countries like Ukraine and Georgia. There will be more of these revolutions for an interesting reason. In
every revolution, there comes a point where the dictator turns to
the general and says, "Fire into the crowd." If the general fires into the crowd, it stops the revolution. If the general says "No", the revolution
continues. Increasingly, the generals are saying "No" because their kids are in the crowd.
Thanks to TV and the Internet, the average 18-year old outside the U.S. is very savvy about what is going on in the world, especially in terms of
popular culture. There is a huge global consciousness, and young people
around the world want to be a part of it. It is increasingly apparent to them that the miserable government where they live is the only thing standing
in their way. More and more, it is the well-educated kids, the
children of the generals and the elite, who are leading the revolutions.
At the same time, not all is well with the war. The level of violence in Iraq is much worse and doesn't appear to be impro ving. It's possible that
we're asking too much of Islam all at one time. We're trying to jolt them
from the 7th century to the 21st century all at once, which may be further than they can go. They might make it and they might not. Nobody knows for
sure. The point is, we don't know how the war will turn out. Anyone who says they know is just guessing.
The real place to watch is Iran. If they actually obtain nuclear weapons it will be a terrible situation. There are two ways to deal with it. The
first is a military strike, which will be very difficult. The Iranians have dispersed their nuclear development facilities and put them underground.
The U.S. has nuclear weapons that can go under the earth and take out those facilities, but we don't want to do that. The other way is to separate the
radical mullahs from the government, which is the most likely course of action.
Seventy percent of the Iranian population is under 30. They are Moslem but not Arab. They are mostly pro-Western. Many experts think the U.S. should
have dealt with Iran before going to war with Iraq. The problem isn't so much the weapons, it's the people who control them. If Iran has a moderate
government, the weapons become less of a concern.>
We don't know if we will win the war in Iraq. What we're looking for is any indicator that Islam is moving into the 21st century and stabilizing.
2. China
It may be that pushing 500 million people from farms and villages into cities is too much too soon. Although it gets almost no publicity, China is
experiencing hundreds of demonstrations around the country, which is
unprecedented. These are not students in Tiananmen Square. These are average citizens who are angry with the government for building chemical plants
and polluting the water th ey drink and the air they breathe.
The Chinese are a smart and industrious people. They may be able to pull it off and become a very successful economic and military superpower. If so,
we will have to learn to live with it. If they want to share the responsibility of keeping the world's oil lanes open, that's a good thing.
They currently have eight new nuclear electric power generators under way and 45 on the books to build. Soon, they will leave the U.S. way behind in
their ability to generate nuclear power.
What can go wrong with China? For one, you can't move 500 million people into the cities without major problems. Two, China really wants Taiwan, not
so much for economic reasons, they just want it. The Chinese know that their system of communism can't survive much longer in the 21st century. The
last thing they want to do before they morph into some sort of more capi talistic government is to take over Taiwan.
We may wake up one morning and find they have launched an attack on Taiwan. If so, it will be a mess, both economically and militarily. The U.S. has
committed to the military defense of Taiwan. If China attacks Taiwan, will we really go to war against them? If the Chinese generals believe the
answer is no, they may attack. If we don't defend Taiwan, every treaty the U.S. has will be worthless. Hopefully, China won't do
anything stupid.
3. Demographics
Europe and Japan are dying because their populations are aging and shrinking. These trends can be reversed if the young people start breeding.
However, the birth rates in these areas are so low it will take two
generations to turn things around. No economic model exists that permits 50 years to turn things around. Some countries are beginning to offer
incentives for people to have bigger families. For example, Italy is
offering tax breaks for having children. However, it's a lifestyle issue versus a tiny amount of money. Europeans aren't willing to give up their
comfortable lifestyles in order to have more children.
In general, everyone in Europe just wants it to last a while longer. Europeans have a real talent for living. They don't want to work very hard. The
average European worker gets 400 more hours of vacation time per
year than Americans. They don't want to work and they don't want to make any of the changes needed to revive their economies.
The summer after 9/11, France lost 15,000 people in a heat wave. In August, the country basically shuts down when everyone goes on vacation. That
year, a severe heat wave struck and 15,000 elderly people
living in nursing homes and hospitals died. Their children didn't even leave the beaches to come bac k and take care of the bodies. Institutions had
to scramble to find enough refrigeration units to hold the bodies until
people came to claim them.
This loss of life was five times bigger than 9/11 in America, yet it didn't trigger any change in French society. When birth rates are so low, it
creates a tremendous tax burden on the young. Under those circumstances,
keeping mom and dad alive is not an attractive option. That's why euthanasia is becoming so popular in most European countries. The only country that
doesn't permit (and even encourage) euthanasia is Germany, because of all the baggage from World War II.
The European economy is beginning to fracture. Countries like Italy are starting to talk about pulling out of the European Union because it is killing
them. When things get bad economically in Europe, they tend to
get very nasty politically. The canary in the mine is anti-Semitism. When it goes up, it means trouble is coming. Current levels of anti-Semitism are
higher than ever. Germany won't launch another war, but Europe will likely get shabbier, more dangerous and less pleasant to live in.
Japan has a birth rate of 1.3 and has no intention of bringing in immigrants. By 2020, one out of every five Japanese will be 70 years old. Property
values in Japan have dropped every year for the past 14 years. The
country is simply shutting down.
In the U.S. we also have an aging population. Boomers are starting to retire at a massive rate. These retirements will have several major impacts:
Possible massive sell-off of large four-bedroom houses and a movement to condos.
An enormous drain on the treasury. Boomers vote, and they want their benefits, even if it means putting a crushing tax burden on their kids to get
them. Social Security will be a huge problem. As this generation ages, it will start to drain the system. We are the only country in the world where
there are no age limits on medical procedures. An enormous drain on the health care system. This will also increase the tax burden on the young, which
will cause them to delay marriage and having families, which will drive down the birth rate even further.
Although scary, these demographics also present enormous opportunities for products and services tailored to aging populations. There will be
tremendous demand for caring for older people, especially those who
don't need nursing homes but need some level of care. Some people will have a business where they take care of three or four people in t heir homes.
The demand for that type of service and for products to physically care for aging people will be huge.
Make sure the demographics of your business are attuned to where the action is. For example, you don't want to be a baby food company in Europe or
Japan. Demographics are much underrated as an indicator of where the opportunities are. Businesses need customers. Go where the customers are.
4. Restructuring of American Business
The restructuring of American business means we are coming to the end of the age of the mostly employer and employee. With all this fracturing of
businesses into different and smaller units, employers can't guarantee jobs anymore because they don't know what their companies will look like next
year. Many are on their way to becoming independent contractors. The new workforce contract will be, a "Show up at the my
office five days a week and do wha t I want you to do, but you handle your own insurance, benefits, health care and everything else."
Husbands and wives are becoming economic units. They take different jobs and work different shifts depending on where they are in their careers and
families. They make tradeoffs to put together a compensation package to take care of the family. This used to happen only with highly educated
professionals with high incomes. Now it is happening at the level of the factory floor worker. Couples at all levels are designing their compensation
packages based on their individual needs. The only way this can work is if everything is portable and flexible, which requires a huge shift in the
American economy.
The U.S. is in the process of building the world's first 21st century model economy. The only other countries doing this are U.K. and Australia. The
model is fast, flexible, highly productive and& nbsp;unstable in that it is always fracturing and re-fracturing. This will increase the economic
gap between the U.S. and everybody else, especially Europe and Japan.
At the same time, the military gap is increasing. Other than China, we are the only country that is continuing to put money into their military. Plus,
we are the only military getting on-the-ground military experience
through our war in Iraq. We know which high-tech weapons are working and which ones aren't. There is almost no one who can take us on economically or
militarily. There has never been a superpower in this
position before.
On the one hand, this makes the U.S. a magnet for bright and ambitious people. It also makes us a target. We are becoming one of the last holdouts of
the traditional Judeo-Christian culture. There is no better place in the world to be in business and raise children. The U.S. is by far the best place
to have an idea, form a business and put it into the marketplace. We take it for granted, but it isn't as available in other countries of the world.
Ultimately, it's an issue of culture. The only people who can hurt us are ourselves, by losing our culture. If we give up our Judeo-Christian culture,
we become just like the Europeans. The culture war is the whole ball game. If we lose it, there isn't another America to pull us out.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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Mexitron
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Interesting points!
Heh...and I used to refer to my workers as my kids...
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DENNIS
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Al G ------
Jeezo...... I'll bet your fingers are worn to a frazzle after typing all that stuff.
Just kidden'.
Thanks for the informative post. I know this is one of your serious concerns.
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Al G
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The population of this country is 300
million.
160 million are retired.
That leaves 140 million to do the work.
There are 85 million in school.
Which leaves 55 million to do the work.
Of this there are 23 million employed by the
federal government.
Leaving 27 million to do the work.
2.8 million are in the armed forces preoccupied
with killing Osama Bin-Laden.
Which leaves 24.2 million to do the work.
Take from that total the 13.4 million people who
work for state and city governments. And that leaves 22.8 million to do the
work.
At any given time there are 188,000 people in
hospitals.
Leaving 13,212,000 to do the work.
Now, there are 1,211,996 people in prisons.
That leaves 12,000,002 to do the work
You and I are sitting on our ass so that leaves
12,000,000 Mexicanos to do the work
And there you are,
The reason we need legal immigrations
[Edited on 6-1-2007 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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CaboRon
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Al G, Enjoyed your tounge in cheek posting. Or was it? CaboRon 
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
Al G, Enjoyed your tounge in cheek posting. Or was it? CaboRon
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No, I doubt whether Al's posting was "tongue in cheek".
There is a lot to ponder in the article:
The credentials of the author, Herb Meyer, certainly distinguishes his political philosophy. We know where he stands in the political arena. I
will suspend judgement here for the sake of objectivity. Mr. Meyer gives a strong perspective in his analyzation of the "four major
transformations", and the history leading up to the present state of the world.
Al's area of concentration, gleaned from Mr. Meyer's essay, is the need for immigrant workers in The United States. Al's numbers are compelling. I
agree with his premise that we need the workers. This is the only idea that George Bush has ever espoused that I agree with.
Where I disagree is in the underlying need for the workers. Mr. Meyer's, Mr. Bush's and (I presume) Mr. Al G's reasons are to provide corporations
with cheap labor. My observation is that we need immigrant laborers to fill the hard, menial, unskilled jobs that go unwanted by citizens of the
United States, i.e. in agriculture and construction.
Have you ever tried to find people, even high school kids, willing to do weed whacking, ditch digging or heavy lifting? Ever tried to find workers,
independent of agencies who gather a work pool and mark up the costs? In cities you can go to street corners known as locations where illegal aliens
hang out looking for work. But they have broken the law and so will you if you hire them.
There are no easy solutions but I think a Guest Worker Program is an idea that is on the right track. However, it is ( as is the whole
immigration bill) fraught with potential problems. How would it be administrated and how would it be controlled?
There is another problem which is already occurring: Greed! It is evident in the construction industry and it is creeping into the corporate world.
Contractors now hire cheap, and often illegal alien labor, to fill skilled positions because it cuts their costs. This results in a shoddy and often,
unsafe product. Are the cost savings passed on to the consumer? No! In fact we, the consumer, are getting screwed with higher costs and a product of
poorer quality.
To parrot the Reagan/Bush philosophy, this is all well and good. The corporations make bigger profits, pay few, if any, taxes and the benefits will
trickle down to to you/me/the little guy. So....how is it working out for you so far?  
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CaboRon
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 NOTHING HAS EVER TRICKLED DOWN TO ME
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Gnome-ad
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I didn't plan on spending so much time on-line this morning - got lots to do, but that was a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing. I agree
with toneart's comments 100%. Thanks for writing that so I didn't have to.
All I have to say is I've been trickled on before and it never felt good.
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well. - Ancis
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JESSE
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Glad to see at least a few smart post's like this one about illegal immigration, too bad there so few of them.
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Mexitron
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I was cogitating on the idea in the article that fundamental religions are responsible for high birth rates; while that may be partly true in Mexico
with the Pope's decrees, I think it may have as much to do with having more kids to work on the family farm. The Mexicans that I know who moved to
the states have just one or two kids.
An anomaly would be China--no fundamental religion there, and the world's highest population(or is it India which has some fundamental sects but I
don't know that the majority would generally be considered hard-core either). Both countries have lots of small family farms.
So I'm not sure that the articles premise about population/fundamental religions was the best conclusion.
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
I was cogitating on the idea in the article that fundamental religions are responsible for high birth rates; while that may be partly true in Mexico
with the Pope's decrees, I think it may have as much to do with having more kids to work on the family farm. The Mexicans that I know who moved to
the states have just one or two kids.
An anomaly would be China--no fundamental religion there, and the world's highest population(or is it India which has some fundamental sects but I
don't know that the majority would generally be considered hard-core either). Both countries have lots of small family farms.
So I'm not sure that the articles premise about population/fundamental religions was the best conclusion. |
The population's annual growth rate of Mexico has been reduced from a 3.5% peak, in 1965 to 0.99% in 2005.
We sit here listening to some wine about immigration, but the numbers are very clear, in 50yrs, North America is going to have a very serious problem
with its workforce.
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Bajafun777
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Posts: 1103
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Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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No we will not have an issue of lack of people in our force in 50 years, as we will continue to allow big companies to outsource their work products
and then bring them back in at the high price to sell to us in the USA. A Guest Worker of some sorts is something that will be created no matter what
but in what form is anyones guess. It's not an issue of legal immigration that has our Country in an uproar but uncontrolled illegal immigration. We
need to put some teeth and sense into our immigration bill being dead and brought back to life over and over again. Every Country, repeat Every
Country has a right to control its borders and set limits on immigration numbers allowed into its borders. Hopefully, our Washington elected
officials will get it right in the some day near future and once it's done then we all as Americans must support it nd make it work.
Later=========bajafun777
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MrBillM
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Crabbing about Immigration
Two days back, there was a news segment intended to demonstrate the need for immigrant workers. Perhaps unintentionally it also demonstrated what
some of us have been saying all along. It IS possible to have a guest worker program that satisfies the need for immigrant labor and
ALSO allows the U.S. to maintain control of said labor force.
The story was about a Crab processor in New England who found it impossible to satisfy his labor requirements with U.S. workers. Instead, the vast
majority of his labor force are Legal Seasonal Immigrants on H2B Visas making a decent wage. The employer maintains detailed records as required by
the Government, including proof that he has attempted to hire U.S. workers without success. As a result, he is able to stay in business and the
Immigrant workforce is tracked and pays all of the required taxes.
A win-win situation.
It CAN work.
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Minnow
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Cheep labor, how about free labor. Here is what the bad contractors do here in Vegas.
Hire 15 guys out of the home depot parking lot to do the heavy lifting for landscaping in Gated communities. At the end of the day take them to the
nearest Robertos tacos. Have them order whatever they want, then remember you forgot your wallet in the truck. Adios Amigos.
Lets see them get back into the golf course.
Think it doesn't happen?
Proud husband of a legal immigrant.
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Mexitron
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Two days back, there was a news segment intended to demonstrate the need for immigrant workers. Perhaps unintentionally it also demonstrated what
some of us have been saying all along. It IS possible to have a guest worker program that satisfies the need for immigrant labor and
ALSO allows the U.S. to maintain control of said labor force.
The story was about a Crab processor in New England who found it impossible to satisfy his labor requirements with U.S. workers. Instead, the vast
majority of his labor force are Legal Seasonal Immigrants on H2B Visas making a decent wage. The employer maintains detailed records as required by
the Government, including proof that he has attempted to hire U.S. workers without success. As a result, he is able to stay in business and the
Immigrant workforce is tracked and pays all of the required taxes.
A win-win situation.
It CAN work. |
I think that's the right idea...but it will require money, more migra, and high border walls for enforcement. Wonder what the Social Security tax
situation would be under more controlled circumstances--we are benefitting from at least some of the illegals by their paying into SS and not getting
anything back out of it.
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Bajaboy
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Why can't we call it subsidized labor instead of cheap labor? That's basically what this is about. We say we want a free market system yet we don't
let the forces play out. Without cheap labor, employers would have to pay prevailing market rates. What a concept...
Zac
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Mexitron
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Why can't we call it subsidized labor instead of cheap labor? That's basically what this is about. We say we want a free market system yet we don't
let the forces play out. Without cheap labor, employers would have to pay prevailing market rates. What a concept...
Zac |
Well, hiring cheap labor is what free markets are doing right now. If you enforced the rules you would change the free market to within U.S. borders;
and be prepared for a shock to the economy as it sorts itself out...labor prices will go up and there will be labor shortages further escalating
costs. It would be interesting to see happen. The dirty little secret is that the government and corporations don't want the rules enforced...and
maybe their partly right. I'm not sure our economy can go backwards to some good old days. I think most folks would be happy if there were a guest
worker program(limiting the perceived or real burden of illegals) and that immigrants made more of an effort to learn English.
Speaking of free markets, if our ever-wondrous(slight sarcasm) economy ever slows down significantly causing mass unemployment, the immigration
problem will probably solve itself.
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Bajaboy
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexitron
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
Why can't we call it subsidized labor instead of cheap labor? That's basically what this is about. We say we want a free market system yet we don't
let the forces play out. Without cheap labor, employers would have to pay prevailing market rates. What a concept...
Zac |
Well, hiring cheap labor is what free markets are doing right now. If you enforced the rules you would change the free market to within U.S. borders;
and be prepared for a shock to the economy as it sorts itself out...labor prices will go up and there will be labor shortages further escalating
costs. It would be interesting to see happen. The dirty little secret is that the government and corporations don't want the rules enforced...and
maybe their partly right. I'm not sure our economy can go backwards to some good old days. I think most folks would be happy if there were a guest
worker program(limiting the perceived or real burden of illegals) and that immigrants made more of an effort to learn English.
Speaking of free markets, if our ever-wondrous(slight sarcasm) economy ever slows down significantly causing mass unemployment, the immigration
problem will probably solve itself. |
I agree with you completely. I just wish people would not tip toe around the real issues. If we went after the employer and enforced labor law, then
we would not have such a draw for immigrants. And, without illegal immigration, wages would not be depressed.
I am not advocating one way or another just trying to clear up the water. Both sides of the equation need to be realistic about the solutions and
consequences to their proposed actions.
Zac
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Hey ......
What happened to the freakin fence?
Is there going to be a fence or not?
All of our legislators need to be gassed along with everybody who keeps voting for them. What good are they?
They say, "You'll have a fence." We don't have any kind of a fence except around the ports of entry, put there to protect the Guardia of the great
American joke, homeland security.
Where is our fence?
We need our fence.
We need to have laws passed which will enforce the laws already passed.
The most threatening terrorist agency we as Americans have to worry about is our own government. Where is our fence?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Any answers?
Does anybody care?
Jesse...........Where is the fence? C'mon. You like this stuff.
Al G.............Where's the fence?
Mexitron..............Where's the efing fence?
If you heroe's of the status quo want to debate the propriety of illegal entry, why can't you give an instant to tell me where the fence is?
I've lost our fence.
Where is it?
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