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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grover
| Quote: | | Originally posted by TW...Enforce the existing laws ie: nail the employer who hires them and the border problem becomes much easier to
control. O tolerance on anyone hiring an illegal, be it a farmer, factory, business of any kind or individual, and see how quick the problem goes
away. |
Even quicker:
New asset-forfeiture legislation.
Remember how effective it was on druggies? They had to post a bond equal to the seizure to even challenge it in court.
We're a little in the red right now; why not grab some assets? |
I'm all for it.
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MrBillM
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Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Fencing Positions
In order to maintain some order among the anti-fence crowd, I suggest they propose their conflicting arguments on alternate days so that we know which
position they have at any moment.
On the one hand, it is argued that the existing fence accomplishes nothing and is simple to circumvent.
Their alternate argument is that the fence (especially in the San Diego area) has forced the illegal immigration farther inland into more hostile
Desert landscape resulting in multitudes of immigrant deaths.
If it's ineffective, why bother ?
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Baja_Girl
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Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
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...enforcing the laws against employers...seizing assets of citizens who are otherwise law-abiding, providing revenue to governments, keeping people
fed and maybe even insured...you must be kidding. Your "laws" would shut down most restaurants in Los Angeles...I am in downtown los angeles all the
time - my work territory is just about the entire county - and I can SEE that there is NO way anyone is going to inspect every business on every
corner of every block...this may be different in other cities north of here, but if the plan is to sanction businesses in San Diego or Los Angeles -
furgitaboutit. Silly plan. Will NEVER happen.
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Mexitron
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Registered: 9-21-2003
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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I think it would be not be that hard to "round up" the illegals if we really wanted to do it...building a border fence equal to the concrete pillar
type in TJ along the entire border is small potatoes financially when you compare it with the Iraq war, which at least some people in this country are
freely happy to spend money on.
The dirty little secret though is that the government wants the illegals here--they provide cheap labor and enough pay into the Social Security System
to make it worthwhile(In the last seven years not once did the government protest when I sent in taxes on my couple illegal workers-yes I've employed
illegals when there was no one else to find and yes they paid their taxes).
Plus, the porous border is part of a slow transition into a North American Trade Alliance with Mexico and Canada. In short, our government does not
want to enforce the border.
Everything's going to cost more if we close the border--no skin off my back since my wages would probably double due to lack of supply of labor...I'm
happy to do the work myself--but when you're competing with many people including corporations who use the cheap labor its a lot harder to make a
buck.
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oldhippie
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I wonder how much money the beltway lobbyists for the apparel, fruit and vegetable, meatpacking, and construction industries, all of which use
(depend upon) illegal migrant labor, spent "convincing" Congress to defeat the latest attempt at immigration reform.
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oldhippie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
Taco, I had to make the wise crack, it's my nature.
I have a job in Mexico and make in one hour what others make in one day. |
Care to tell us what job that is?
Saludos-- Larry |
I sell tunnel boring equipment here in TJ. Better make that fence as deep as it is high!! And please build it. No need for tunnels if there aren't
fences to go under. I have to snicker at the "electronic" fences. hahahah Do you know how easy it is to get under those? 
Actually my work is transcendental. I work in cyberpspace, it transcends borders.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Good. Close every restaurant in Los Angeles..............except the Pantry.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Nothing, Repeat Nothing is going to happen in the area of an Immigration Bill being passed by our government. Who wants to lose their government
pension for something so big that if it stays going around and around in a circle they can talk it to death. So, liberals and conservatives can all
rest easy and keep a sharp eye out for each other but nothing is going to happen. Too many lobbists, too many guest speaking engagements with big
money, and too stressful for our elected government officials to handle. The elected officials would much rather keep the heat on the streets and on
television as it just keeps going in circles, just ask "Willie" like the song says. I just want some peace and enjoyable days with the time I may
have left and I cannot let elected officials take that away from me with their nonesense of running in circles. No fight Be Happy life is too short
to take ourselves serious anymore, as no one else does. Just ask the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants!!!!!! Later-----Bajafun777
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oldhippie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
Actually my work is transcendental. I work in cyberpspace, it transcends borders. |
Yeah, the Internet is enabling some interesting work paradigms which I don't think goverments have figured out yet.
So, supposing one lives in Mexico and his clients are outside of the country, where's his income earned? 
--Larry |
Probably according to tax collectors in both places. Uncle Sam gets his cut.
Jeez, I hope I'm not taking a job away from someone living in the United States.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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Location: South of the broder
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Sounds line "Out Sourcing" of jobs to me.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Weeding them out !
Step by Step. Enhance border enforcement. Build the fencing first that will detour the migration into more unfavorable natural climate. Use the
technology, including Aerial Recon. Make the Employer sanctions heavy enough and make examples of the first ones prosecuted. Fear is a superb
motivator.
It doesn't have to be done in one day-week-month-year-decade. ANY reduction will be an improvement.
Taking the opposite viewpoint, we might as well give up on law enforcement completely since we'll never catch every Murderer, Rapist, Robber or Thug.
Why bother ? Speaking of which, we can find the first candidates for deportation in our prison systems where up to 25 % of the prison population are
illegal immigrants.
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Baja_Girl
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Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Mood: suavidad
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Fence by Minutemen...
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Having just seen Sicko, I would suggest that it is clearly in the interests of the ruling class of the USofA to have a cheap work force that lives in
fear and impotence.
The alternative, which we have lost, is an active and forceful electorate who those in power FEAR. The French have this. The British a sense of social
responsibility that grew out of their wartime devistation and the realization that they were in this thing TOGETHER and that they needed to provide
for "the least of these" as they all were a step away from that position, as we are in the USofA now. We are all one step away from bankruptsy if we
suffer a major injury or illness. Even if we have insurance!
The interests of "the least of these" are clearly our interests too.
My concern in all of this is that the freightedned, disenfranchised illegal imigrants further adds to the population of legal working people who are
now being screwed by Corporate America. These illegal immigrants as with most of the working people in the USofA feel powerless and impotent to
actually have our fundamental needs, such as Universal Health Care addressed.
Until we, the people, learn to stop defending the positions of our upper class and the rights of corporations, and start focusing on our own
legitimate needs, this sort of distracting gridlock will stay in place and continue to keep our focus away from confronting the issues that directly
affect all of us.
Don't stand up and fight for Universal Care! It is Communistic, Socialistic, some sort of istic....and so you should continue to support the upper
class who know what is good for you. This is just an example. We aught to be taking to the streets in face of this immoral and illegal war,
confronting the wholesale sale of our resources to corporate america in the name of privatization, but the populace is too afraid and focused on
survival. Like the frog who is boiled in what starts out to be cold water, we simmer in our fear like the poor Mexican immigrant who just wants to get
along.
I believe that the low polling numbers reflect a growing discomfort with the
satus quo and an awakening of awareness that we are getting screwed, all of us, by the same slimeballs who brought us Viet Nam and now Iraq. Self
Interested Legislators and corporate big wigs who line their pockets with the spoils of war and with the tax dollars that we give them that could be
used to provide us with medical care, free public education thru college and a host of other services that would benifit us all.
It is amazing to me how the people of the USofA could over and over vote for people who are directly opposted to their own self interest. It truly
amazes me.
My father, a union man, voted for Richard Nixon.....jaw dropping amazing. I think he was afraid of "rocking the boat" and maybe electing people who
would do "socialist" things. Ya pop, like the library? Like the Post Office? Like the Departent of Transportation? Like Social Security? Amazing. We
are now reaping the harvest of his hard work and his brainwashing. Socialism/bad, Free Boot Capitalism Good.
Iflyfish
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Bajalover
Nomad
Posts: 227
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: The Cottage at Ocotillo Hills
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Mood: Strongly - Missing Baja
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Agree with "bajafun777" If the Gov'mnt wanted to do ANYTHING besides talk and gain support for their OWN cause - they'd change " 1 LAW - BABIES BORN
IN USA TAKE NATIONALITY OF PARENTS AND NOT BE --- AUTO  USA CITIZENS"
That's all there is and nothing else matters at this stage. It'll change the demographics quickly in various parts of the country.
If the Gov't doesn't stir the pot on occassions to get the public excited, they'll think they're not doing enough for their pockets.      so
much for that !
Nothing, Repeat Nothing is going to happen in the area of an Immigration Bill being passed by our government. Who wants to lose their government
pension for something so big that if it stays going around and around in a circle they can talk it to death. So, liberals and conservatives can all
rest easy and keep a sharp eye out for each other but nothing is going to happen. Too many lobbists, too many guest speaking engagements with big
money, and too stressful for our elected government officials to handle. The elected officials would much rather keep the heat on the streets and on
television as it just keeps going in circles, just ask "Willie" like the song says. I just want some peace and enjoyable days with the time I may have
left and I cannot let elected officials take that away from me with their nonesense of running in circles. No fight Be Happy life is too short to take
ourselves serious anymore, as no one else does. Just ask the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants!!!!!! Later-----Bajafun777
Sometimes you really do question; why you are and where you are.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Grover,
And a shot at citizenship too. Recruiting posters now all around Latin America. I recall this same strategy used by the Romans to fill their
ranks......created a lot of really peeed off soldiers when they didn't produce the promised citizenship.
Iflyfish
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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THE fix for illegal immigration into the US from Mexico is to eliminate the desire to go to the US. What India has done in training a high tech
generation is not lost on Mexican educators. Ensenada now has the required schools and programs to train techies. There is a long way to go but it can
happen quickly. Anybody with the aptitude can learn to do what I do (write software) without a classroom nor books. The Internet is the University of
Software Engineering, complete with tutorials, examples, and people willing to help from around the world. The computer programming message boards are
some of the oldest on the Internet.
The leveling of the playing field is the most important task in solving the illegal immigration problem. The Internet just may be the great equalizer.
However, a guest worker program is needed for farm workers. The substantial number of uneducated Mexican workers need jobs and jobs for them exist in
the United States. So why not create an above board migrant worker program for them instead of maintaining the underground illegal worker system that
is now used?
To the fence builders I say go ahead, build the fence. It may stop some and the I'm real used to the US wasting my tax dollars on useless programs.
Remember tho, over half the illegals in the US walked right by the immigration officials with valid visas and then overstayed their visas. Another
huge percentage walked right by the immigration officials with phoney documents.
So the fence certainly will not stop illegal immigration. It will help my tunnel boring equipment sales business though. Which, by the way, is
entirely legal. I'm not responsible for what people do with the equipment after the purchase. Just like the gun sellers of the world.
The two man, portable, and quiet running "San Ysidro or Bust" model is selling very well.
[Edited on 7-1-2007 by oldhippie]
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oldhippie
Banned
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Registered: 6-25-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lenchoThe bubble of young tech-savvy college grads is becoming visible as they incorporate into the main infraestructure
of the country, which I suspect is now modernizing at a much higher rate than in the U.S.
Encouraging, and at the same time scary.
--Larry |
Why's that scary? It's a good thing.
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oldhippie
Banned
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Registered: 6-25-2006
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'93 was the early Internet days in any country. Pre-browser days.
I guess I don't understand your fears.
[Edited on 7-1-2007 by oldhippie]
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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border fence yesterday
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
Ah. Do you fully trust the Mexican government?
--Larry |
Well, no. Why do you ask?
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