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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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| Quote: | Originally posted by amir
| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
Baja is for sale. Anyone not know that?
Mexico is a country separate from the US. They can do as they please and the opinion of foreigners does not matter when it comes to such small issues
as one golf course and hotel rooms along a coastal section that is not currently developed.
Calmate. Amigos. |
This is one of the most clear and succinct statements made recently that spans a broad spectrum of subjects discussed by Nomads.
--Amir |
A guess a "clear statement" is one that can be understood and a succinct statement is one of few words. Big deal, it still can be wrong.
The point is environmentalism. I really get fed up with this attitude that what happens in a country you happen to not be a citizen of is beyond your
control and is none of your business.
Absolute bullchit!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65246
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It is 'reality' however!
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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The brochure is a hoot, I like the juice they will have to get inside the secure area to greet guests at the Loreto Airport:
"Upon arrival at the Loreto International Airport, you are
immediately struck by the charming local palapa architecture common
throughout Baja California and Mexico. Friendly and attentive hotel
greeting staff are on hand to help you clear customs and retrieve your
bags, but only after offering you a refreshing local potion."
I will pass on this development, as it relies on the mass-transit, bus-like service of commercial airlines at a public airport, instead of the private
airstrip that I, and my Gulfstream, deserve.
I don't like to see developments in Baja, but there is an economic necessity. Unless we think we should be able to visit and live in a Baja populated
by dirt poor but friendly happy people riding around on burros and fishing from dug-out sailing boats.
The several huge developments in the immediate Loreto Area involve thousands of units, resulting in tens of thousands of migrants into the area. Huge
areas will be developed.
This development is tiny by comparison, but with great "value added" in architecture, staff requirements, and maintenance requirements. Lots of jobs
fueled by very high prices that won't have to be discounted to compete with the baby boom masses. Yeah, I hate golf courses. But where water is so
scarce, better to use some for a golf course bringing in a big spenders than to provide for a new worker ghetto of 75,000 people, AND a golf course.
Hell, I hope they use a TON of water, so that there's none left for anyone else to develop around there. So all you get is ONE development for a
relative HANDFUL of guests who will spend LOTS of money. Anyway, that's how I'd plan it.
So if Old Hippie (Old Special Forces?) is going to call in an airstrike, please aim farther south. 
Also, places like this provide great security for Mexico. In a crisis, the assets there (the guests) can be siezed for large ransoms or political
extortion.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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I will say this however, this developer is not greenwashing and it appears that was is planned is relatively small, secluded, and for the super rich
only.
I'm confused by the water issue. Is there enough? The Harvard study concluded that the Loreto development will drain the local aquifers. Same water
supply for this additional golf course?
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oldhippie
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Jack of Diamonds, I'm with you on this one. I too got a kick out of the marketing techniques used to attract the monied. The poor people seem to be so
confused. All of the stuff, when all that is needed/wanted is a cold beer, a comfortable chair, a dog or two, campfire, and some good company.
But the airstrike I'm planning is on the Loreto airport, the weak link in this chain of development madness. Last night while walking with Smiley and
Nacho we were discussing the fact that none of us could recall an incident where a small private group of citizens shut down for good an airport. We
all got excited because it's a new challenge.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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hmmm i was wondering when the old hippy would flip?? to the other side
seems as long as its popular he will sway with the masses lol
jerry and judi
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Oh, for The Gull, dare I add "ible". That's citizens of the world. Just to preempt your claim I have no right to sabotage airports in another
country.:moon:
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oldhippie
Banned
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Registered: 6-25-2006
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Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Loreto Bay is still in my sights.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Disclaimer:
I don't know this "Old Hippie" guy.
I was a "Peace and Love" hippie, not a "Destroyer of Airports" hippie.
And we use that airport since I misplaced my Gulfstream. Maybe I left it in Uruguay.
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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Agree or disagree with Old Hippie, his Krutch signature quote is epic.
Krutch's love and knowledge of the peninsula was—and remains—unimpeachable.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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old hippy is not Krutch
jerry and judi
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19743
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
All of the stuff, when all that is needed/wanted is a cold beer, a comfortable chair, a dog or two, campfire, and some good company.
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Old hippie, I admire anybody who fights the developers and environmental rapists, but.... I think poor people are aspiring to more than "a cold beer,
a comfortable chair, a dog or two, campfire, and some good company." The gringo likes to rough it when away from his/her plasma TV, but requires a
$40k SUV to trasport his/her beer, chair and pedigree dogs. The poor who only have a beer, chair and dog or two probably seek a few more material
goods, and what better way to get such than by fleecing the gringo retirees?
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Slowmad
Nomad
Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jerry
old hippy is not Krutch |
Nice catch.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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Credits go to Dennis for the Krutch quote. I never heard of the guy before a couple of days ago.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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I should have named this post and I will call it forthwith: "Mega-resort for the rich planned for the Bay of Concepcion".
Gawd, how many times have we heard how this or that mega-project is going to happen in this area. As with the easily accessable beaches and
shoreline of Baja, comes the hand of development as profit potential soars.
We've all seen that gloved hand. It waves high in places such as Los Cabos to the south and Playas de Rosarito in the north. The growth factor is
phenomenol and the end product is not unlike other prime coastal shores worldwide. The development in Latin countries but especially Mexico and
Central America is at full-speed ahead on the grab and develop mindset. There are big profits to be made, especially if you have deep pockets and
important connections inside the "machine".
I see there is a definite advantage in having "connections" inside many offices and at various levels of the process, you know, attorneys,
consutants, govt. liasons, etc..
Enough of that but the point is; only big, connected, wealthy corps need apply.
----------------
Along comes one certainly powerful developer with all the criteria necessary to accomplish a major development in any country and you may have a
problem.
I can spell it out pretty plainly for those who should but doin't understand the ramifications of this type of resort in this type of area.
For the record, the area in discussion here is called Estero Santa Barbara. It is located about 15 mi south of Mulege. It is a magnificant little
jewel with shallow clear waters. An important stop for sailors seeking sheltered waters. Historically, the area has been accessable by land only
periodically as the arroyo that helped form and feed the area with fresh water floods easily and reverts the track back to riverbed regularily.
The purchace and development plans are grandiose in scale. Many bays in the Bay of Conception contain dwellings, including homes, very few small
restaurants and outbuildings. It amounts to small nestled established beaches which used produce uncounted amounts of various shellfish and fish plus
whales and other marine mammals.
That's right, Bahia De Concepcion was "The" place to go in the early 80's. Hech, with a small boat, a diver with a hooka, one could cash in on the
bounty the bay offered up. Have you seeen the middens of thousands of years of subsistance of Baja dwellers? It's amazing how they managed the
resources at their fingertips.
That all went away though. It was eventually necessary to create laws to protect the waters and the populations of sea animals. Gone were all the
whales, gone were many types of invertebrates. Gone were thelucrative inshore fishing for countless species.
Did they learn or save much? I think not, I have see prohibited shrimp trawlers in there. Not to mention the shark hunters piles of discarged parts.
These are supposedely Federally protected wates. Hmmmmphh! Bull-doo.
The story repeats itself day in and day out in Baja. Maybe to the tune of money?
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Now with all that keen knowledge. Imagine this: a bay, not really tampered with. It has a functional mangrove estuary. It has not been altered or
changed in millenium. There is an fresh-water aquifer that feeds that basin and estero.
A few notes. First off the corp has rights to six undeveloped wells in the basis. The aquifer not clearly defined so it may or may not be part of the
same aquifer as Mulege.
Second, all arrivees are to be transported to the development via the sea. Hence a prominate dock and support structures will be needed. The road in
is for the infrastructure.
Third, I am shocked that because it's not in your neighborhood, some deem it unimportant or of great value. Ironic how passions run here?? What a
crock!
My whole point is the potential for distruction of a viable mangrove estuary fed by a fresh water aquifer. I could really care less what political
affiliation these developers have but found it quite disturbing that most of these US corps have strong ties to govt. and republicans in general.
Some Nomads think Mexico has the right to destroy or otherwise alter permanently ideal spawning grounds etc etc.
I guess what these people are saying is that Mexicao and it's people and politicians can't learn from others. Man, what a rank insult. They can only
learn if they are given information. Sometimes it may be necessary or important to reevaluate concerns or the dynamics of a planned development.
Sometimes information needs to be interjected. No? I'm sure the Nomads in Loreto would agree on that in principal. Or maybe not.
You can see this place is very special because of the lack of human interference. To write it off as unimportant because of the scope in terms of
visitors is just plain naive and rediculous. So what I am hearing is screams from beaches being changed forever in populated areas. You folks who
don't care about this one should really just not get involved or say anythang in related theads . Don't be hypocrits.
----
PLEASE , THINK ABOUT THE FISH for a change.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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I don't know sharks, I only have so much time and I think Loreto Bay is much more damaging than this development. Development is going to happen, but
the "I'm going to build a city" nutcases need to really scale back. This guy is an ex-ambassador to Argentina and a professor of American-Mexican
relations at UC San Diego on top of being a successful developer. There's no stopping this, if he can find buyers.
A Cabo analogy if I may. The somewhat isolated upscale hotels between San Lucas and San Jose are OK with me. But the Plaza las Glorious smack dab on
the harbor waterfront is God awful.
Plus, if you look closely at my most emotional rants about Loreto Bay, they stem from what I believe are their bold faced lies about how their
development is better for, or at least won't damage, the environment. People are giving them money based upon lies. IMHO, they're money-grubbing,
low-life, polluting, criminals.
I don't think I'm being a hypocrite, I'm just choosing my battles.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Some Nomads think Mexico has the right to destroy or otherwise alter permanently ideal spawning grounds etc etc.
I guess what these people are saying is that Mexicao and it's people and politicians can't learn from others. Man, what a rank insult. They
can only learn if they are given information. |
Most of Mexico's politicians and their handlers are well informed...The elite of the country. Most speak better English than most Americans and are
schooled at America's finest universities. They do with the country what they will because they either own it or are given carte blanche by the people
who elect them.
Greedy foreign corporations need concessions and permits to do what they do... And they don't harvest them from trees.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Exactamente my point! That's why it is an insult to those with power and influence regardless of their monetary stature. Unfortunately for the fish
and birds, money speaks louder than animal abundance.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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I'm sorry if I have offended, and my earlier post was perhaps too flippant, and failed to consider the the feelings of others including yourself.
But keep in mind that despite my frequent criticisms of Loreto area developments, I am not against all development in the region, only those of a
massive scale. It is those differences, not the differences in location, that influenced my opinion. Also, if you carefully read the brochure, the BOC
development stresses its connections with Loreto and its airport. In other words, you are perhaps seeing an outer ripple of the greater Loreto area
development boom. Welcome to our boat.
I do hope that, should that development come to pass, that the estuary can survive. But I also hope the same for all of the estuaries from Ensenada
Blanca to San Bruno, all of which are threatened by the recently approved regional development plan. In my defense I can say that when that
destructive plan was formally presented to the municipality, along with a more moderate alternative, and when the Loreto Futures critiques were
presented to the municipality, I took the time to attend the meetings to support a more rational development plan.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Thanks Don
Ok , you do understand the situation obviously and it's good you do not pretend to not know what is happening with big bucks and influence in Baja. I
also realize some think I shun any and all development . Not true. I just abhor the ease and arrogance illustrated by this project and the
justification of installing a coastal golf course in such a pristine area.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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