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memo
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Vanishing Baja, literally
As published in USA Today, NASA scientist James Hansen told congress this week the world has about ten years to go before global warming causes a
dramatic rising of sea levels. The Baja peninsula would be hard hit by this development and coastal cities like Cabo San Lucas, Ensenada and La Paz
could be wiped out. What is today arid desert could be beach front property by 2020. Is it time to start buying inland properties and unloading the
overpriced beach condos? .
[Edited on 6-24-2008 by memo]
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Gadget
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Since you are posting comments from Hansen who is referred to as the godfather of global warming, perhaps you would like to read info from the
opposite side of the idea.
Here is a link to John Colemans thoughts on the subject. He is the founder of the weather channel.
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/13681217.html
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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ELINVESTIG8R
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According to the Godfather of Global Warming NASA Scientist James Hansen my brother Sany who owns Rancho El Metate in San Juan De Dios will be rich
when that happens. He can call it Playa San Juan de Dios en El Metate. I better tell him never to sell his land out there.
NOTE: I did not start this thread!
[Edited on 6-25-2008 by ELINVESTI8]
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comitan
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Everyone has an Agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Money?)
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Gadget
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Everyone has an Agenda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Money?) |
Yup, on both sides, how do we fix that?
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
Since you are posting comments from Hansen who is referred to as the godfather of global warming, perhaps you would like to read info from the
opposite side of the idea.
Here is a link to John Colemans thoughts on the subject. He is the founder of the weather channel.
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/13681217.html |
John Coleman is an authority.  Ha, ha, you be one funny dude. (God save us if you were serious)
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Pescador
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Many of us feel that the whole global warming issue is a political issue
based more on ones political view of the world than on hard scientific data which should be open minded and non-prejudicial. Here is another view:
http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html
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Cypress
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Pescador, WOW! This "Global Warming" issue, while something to ponder, just might well be the "Flavor of the Month" of the "Chicken Little" crowd. Is the sky actually falling? Thanks! Have you been catching any fish? Dumb question, had to ask.
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Gadget
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Gadget
Since you are posting comments from Hansen who is referred to as the godfather of global warming, perhaps you would like to read info from the
opposite side of the idea.
Here is a link to John Colemans thoughts on the subject. He is the founder of the weather channel.
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/13681217.html |
John Coleman is an authority. Ha, ha, you be one funny dude. (God save us if you were serious) |
MT,
and Hansen is, or algore is? They are just men like you and me who have opinions. None of these guys are my god. Are they yours? And like the
other posts here of others opinions, there is much more to this than any actual facts, scientific or otherwise. MY OPINION is it is all money and
politically motivated.
Will you plan on commenting on those other posts, or just mine?
No need to ask for divine intervention regarding my views, I'm just one man and no threat to you at all.
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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Taco de Baja
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Man caused global warming is political. Science is not about voting, politics is.
Real scientist don't vote on what is happening, to come up with something like 80% believe the earth will melt in 20 years, 15% don't believe it, 5%
think it will remain the same. Therefore, the vast majority MUST be right and the debate is OVER! Real scientists view facts.
Real scientists don't massage the data to get the results they want, they don't ignore articles that disagree with their results, they don't
fraudulently add in names to the "melt" vote, they don’t use scare tactics, they don't lie...The IPCC, and fat albert have done all those and more.
I have an idea, let's have JPL take a vote the next time they launch a Mars Lander on the exact time and date it will land. Based on, feelings,
hunches, beliefs, opinions, hockey stick trajectory graphs.....
Speaking of JPL and calculations, we all know what happened the last time the egg heads at JPL forgot to convert metric to standard measurements in
their calculations.....Many global warming models do the came thing - GIGO. Especially, when we are talking about a predicted SINGLE degree rise in
temperature, a little GIGO can go a long way (By the way is that in Fahrenheit? Or Celsius?....Who really cares, as long as the graph in tenths of a
degree to make it look dramatic.)
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Taco de Baja
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....and even if sea level rises 20 feet, there will still be a lot of Baja left.
Think of what Baja, and the World for that matter, was like 18,000 years ago, just before the glaciers began melting (with no help for us).
Once the glaciers melted global sea level had risen 330 feet! Now that was some serious coastal flooding, climate change and habitat destruction
(again no help from us). This period of sea level change (between 18,000 and 6,000 years ago) far outpaced even the most radical predictions sea
level changes posited by the anthropogenic global warming crowd.
Of course 18,000 years ago you could not have visited a beautiful place like Yosemite because it was under several 1,000 feet of ice.
Change happens, naturally. Always has, always will.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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David K
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Camping at sea level sites since the mid 60's... and nothing has changed!
The world is a lot more powerful than we (or the libs) give it credit for... 4.5 billion years old!
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standingwave
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Grover, thanks for that article setting the record straight on Gore's contribution re: the internet. He's been bashed a lot for that "inventing the
internet" comment and I appreciate this info confirming my suspicion that the criticism was unfounded.
I think we've all heard the expression, "food for thought".
I've added a picture to this post that shows the temperature, C02 and dust levels in Antarctica for the last 400 thousand years. A picture that I
recommend to anyone hungry for some serious contemplation.
A couple of observations - 1) every spike of high temperature/CO2 in Antarctica was followed by a long time of cold (an ice age), 2)this time instead
of a spike of high temperatures/CO2 like the last four, there is a plateau that seems to have lasted for 5000 years or so.
A couple of questions - 1) is there a connection between the temperature/CO2 levels plateauing in the "good" zone (ie. what we humans have come to
know and enjoy over the last few thousand years) and the practice of agriculture, 2) are human contributions of CO2 and other greenhouse gases over
the last 400 years upsetting the ice age cycle, a la James Lovelock's The Revenge of Gaia with the inevitable result of a world too hot for
most higher animals and vegetables.
A hypothesis. Humanity is the best thing to ever happen to the planet in that our influence through agriculture has stabilized the climate. However
lately (last 400 years) our bad habits have upset this balance (primarily through the ignorant misuse of fossil fuels) and the climate is changing as
a result. Furthermore the rate of change is accelerating. The next steady state will either be an ice age or a world too hot for comfort. The solution
is lots of shrubbery; gardening the planet back to the stable climate life here has enjoyed for the last few thousand years. Or as I like to phrase
it, garden gaia into eden.
Well, is that too long for a hypothesis
Certainly enough, I hope, to generate some discussion.
I hope this thread stays this side of the Off-topic line. After all Nomads seem to be primarily coastal people and where that waterline will be is of
great importance to all of us with an interest in Baja.
\"I could not help concluding this man had the most supreme pleasure while he was driven so fast and so smoothly by the sea.\"
James Cook |
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Osprey
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Living on an island (or a long skinny spit of land like Baja California) one gets a feeling for the overwhelming power of the ocean. I think of the
earth as a big ball covered by water, dotted by islands. We do pollute the seas but we have little effect on their power to run the climate engines of
each major section; poles and hemispheres. Some day we will and we must remember that we can't plant trees in the ocean. Until then the seas and the
sun will keep us all guessing. My guess is that we ought to stop cutting down old trees. Do you think, through the internet, we all have access to the
same climate data? If we do, and we still want to kill each other over our analysis, I suggest we have too much.
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Taco de Baja
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That's one of those graphs, standingwave, that can "prove" almost anything.
For example: The scale is too large to show good detail but an argument can be made that: falling dust levels seem to precede rising temps, that then
cause rising CO2 (in that order).
Of course, the anthropogenic crowd would say the rising CO2, causes temps to rise, which then decreases dust levels (for some reason).....or maybe
rising CO2 causes lower dust levels because the CO2 is taking the place of the dust, and then temps rise.....
More question to ponder: The Dust levels are at their lowest point in 150,000 years, why?
What role is that playing, in the current scheme of things?
Is dust factored into the models? If so, what ppm? Predicted to rise, fall, or remain at the current low numbers, over time?
Seems to me, if we think we can change the climate, and we want to lower temperatures, we need to try to inject 1.0-1.2 ppm of dust into the
atmosphere, that’s when the temperature is at the “ideal” median point.
Also this graph appears to show some of the most stable temperatures, on the entire graph occurring over the last 20,000 years (During the rise of
human-kind out of the stone age, Coincidence? I think not. Warmer and more stable temps allowed humans to flourish)...Check out the period from
150,000 to 130,000, though, a temp rise of 12 degrees! There are numerous other extreme temp fluctuations on this graph, all naturally occurring, and
all no doubt resulting in habitat destruction, coastal flooding, drought, floods, and species extinctions…..Don’t believe the hype that “Temperatures
are rising faster than they ever have in the history of the World”, this graph, clearly, “proves” that statement is full of hot air.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Osprey
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I think we will see more and more Green topics on the board and they are bound to be long and full of data and revealing. The reason is that we can't
even agree on which side we're on:
Here's a few sides
1. Nothing we can do, people cause no problems for the planet, if the sky falls, it falls, I'm too lazy to protest, gimme a beer.
2. People are the big cause for everything and we should never have made all the problems -- better to live with/like the Quakers, I'm so mad I'm
takin' your beer.
3. Sun/moon/stars allignment -- nothing can be done, it's too late AND people have changed it TOO.
4. People have caused it all, it's not too late, it's our duty, it's unconscienable to do nothing, we owe it to our grandkids and if it gets any worse
I'm gonna start killing polluters:
A. not the ones who plant trees though
B. not the ones who don't eat meat
C. I'll let you live if you'll help me save the bears/whales/bowl weevles.
5. My company will make 1,890 billion dollars in the first quarter from sales of Green Up or Die stuff -- I will personally donate 2.5% of that to the
Crush the Coal People Alliance.
6. Ad nauseum
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wilderone
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You're using that graph as proof? Please tell me on what factual basis was the graph derived from? 400 thousand years' data of a region of the world
that has been the least populated, captured by whom? how? You don't think the science - had to be mere hypotheses because nobody was checking a
thermomemeter for 400 thousand years - could be flawed? The graph is a result of one generation's academia - and every day, the same academia debunks
previous science in favor of newer truths.
"We understand and believe vastly more than we know." -- Blaise Pascal
I don't doubt that there are fluctuations in climate - but to generalize without understanding one factor of the big WHY? is using the generalizations
as a shield to absolve you - 2008 mankind - this generation - past generations' industrial revolution - forest slashing/burning mankind - 50 years of
destruction of earth that cannot be denied - of responsibility. This is nonsense.
The proof is right before your eyes in all its tangibleness - look at the snow cap on Mt. Kilomanjaro (sp?), compared with 10 years ago and you tell
me why that's happening NOW? Just an expected phenomenon? I don't think so. And if you believe that, then expect the consequences of the high-peaks
of the graph - which no human on this earth has ever personally experienced - because it's just a graph based on hypoetheses - which, as we know, is
unproven science.
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wilderone
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The "WHY": the science-based graph data (gases in bubbles from ice cores) - and the conclusion:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051125105107.ht...
As the data become more solid about the atmospheric conditions of the past, it's becoming increasingly clear that the current conditions of the past
200 years are a distinct anomaly, Brook said.
"The levels of primary greenhouse gases such as methane, carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide are up dramatically since the Industrial Revolution, at a
speed and magnitude that the Earth has not seen in hundreds of thousands of years," Brook said. "There is now no question this is due to human
influence.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
Al Gore and the internet, like Patrick J Chica's (PJC) US political rant had nothing to do with Baja California. It was correct, in my judgment, to
delete those posts.
It is too bad that the off-topic forum isn't a viable place to have civil discussions. |
The first post in this topic, by the newby "Memo" most certainly is about Baja. I didn't get to see Grover's post so I don't know why it would be
removed. If it were for political reasons, then that sucks. I appreciate reading all the contributions here and am offended that some would be removed
for reasons of political biases of the Mods. We still haven't had the alleged removal confirmed or explained yet.
It is too bad that the global warming issue has become so politicized. That obscures any objective (and therefore valid) viewpoints. It behooves us
all to stay informed, to read as much as we can on the subject. Wouldn't you want to CYA's in case the data is all you have to cling to as the planet
is going down?
Believe what you want, but don't disbelieve anything. And especially, don't be obnoxious while expressing your disbelief. (That statement was not
directed at Vgabndo.) Keep an open mind. We have a responsibility to do so.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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A BIG GROUP HUG IS NEEDED HERE!
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