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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
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Awwwwww! 
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
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Awwwwww! |
Naw---too much heat. 
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: |
Perhaps not all have noticed, but there is one less moderator. |
Diane,
Not counting Doug, I think there was only one moderator.
Why anyone would want to spend the hours he did and take the crap he took recently by a few here is beyond me. A thankless task for sure.
Ken
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTI8
A BIG GROUP HUG IS NEEDED HERE!
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Awwwwww! |
Naw---too much heat. |
I'm darned if I do and Darned if I don't.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Killing the Polar Bears ?
If little children were treated to a film of Polar Bears feeding, they wouldn't be frightened by the thought of killing them off.
In fact, they'd probably think it was a damned good idea.
Has anybody noticed a change in life since the Polar Bears became more scarce ? Other than the odd Aborigine that isn't being killed by one ?
Just wondering.
BTW, I'll go along with Goring being a Visionary.
Visionary adj. 1. Characterized by vision or foresight. 2.a. Having the nature of fantasies or dreams; illusory. b. Existing in imagination
only; imaginary. 3.a. Characterized by or given to apparitions, prophecies, or revelations. b. Given to daydreams or reverie; dreamy. 4.a. Not
practicable or realizable; utopian. b. Tending to envision things in perfect but unrealistic form; idealistic. --vi·sion·ar·y n., pl. vi·sion·ar·ies.
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Natalie Ann
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2819
Registered: 8-22-2003
Location: Berkeley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: |
Perhaps not all have noticed, but there is one less moderator. |
Diane,
Not counting Doug, I think there was only one moderator.
Why anyone would want to spend the hours he did and take the crap he took recently by a few here is beyond me. A thankless task for sure.
Ken |
I've noticed the absence of Hose A. Real sorry to see him gone. He was a good moderator and still managed some very funny posts. May he be enjoying
his time away from this zoo.
Nena
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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WHAT! Hose A gone? Say it ain't so. I like him dangit. Get back here Gene. He and I never had a cross word and I really respect him. Get back to work
in here and regulate us heathens. We need you.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
The proof is right before your eyes in all its tangibleness - look at the snow cap on Mt. Kilomanjaro (sp?), compared with 10 years ago and you tell
me why that's happening NOW? Just an expected phenomenon? I don't think so. |
How do you know it isn't an expected phenomenon?
What caused the melting of the glaciers 18,000 years ago?
They covered a huge area of Canada, large portions of the US, Europe, Africa, the Soviet Union, China…..
Glaciers formed and influenced much of the world we see to day (from the Matterhorn, Mt Kilimanjaro, and Yosemite, to the sediment that forms the
'grain belt' of the USA, the Columbia River Gorge in OR and WA, and the landform of Long Island, NY, to name a few.)
Yet the glaciers melted; and quite rapidly too. The World is not static. The World does NOT have a thermostat that must set on exactly 50 degrees, all
the time and if it creeps up a degree of two the World will reach a tipping point from which it will never recover.
Heck, day and night are different too, if we only lived for a few hours, there would be predictions it would continue to get brighter and brighter, or
darker and darker (depending on what side of the day/night we happened to be living in).
It is very short sited (pun intended) to look at pictures and 50-150 years of temps, and habitat change when there has been changing climate on this
planet for billions years.
As a paleontologist, I have found Redwood trees in 12,000 year old sediments in Orange County, California. During construction of the Red Line in Los
Angeles, Redwood trees were also found deep underground….Why did they die off? Climate change; they did not like the warming temps. Oh, and while
they were living in southern California, their current habitat was under glacial ice. Who knows, there may have even been Redwoods in Baja.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
As a paleontologist, |
Would you please share your professional credentials with us?
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
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Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
As a paleontologist, |
Would you please share your professional credentials with us? |
B.S. Degree in Earth Science, UC Santa Cruz
Orange County Certified Paleontologist, approved by the County of Orange Planning Commission.
The company I work for is hired by developers, utility companies, caltrans, and the like, to mitigate adverse impacts to paleontological resources
that are encountered during ground disturbing activities associated with their work. We collect, identify and analyze the fossils that are found.
Some eventually go to museums (some are currently on loan at the Smithsonian), we put some on display, and we take some around to local school
districts to give talks about "fossils in your backyard" to first grade through high school students.
I have been doing this work since 1992 in Orange, Los Angeles, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino, and Imperial Counties, CA; Clark County, NV; and
Badlands National Park, South Dakota.
No, I have not found any dinosaurs yet, very little work in sediments that old, but I did find bones and teeth from the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th occurrences
Saber Tooth Cats in Orange County (~15,000 years old). Along with many other ‘firsts’ for small rodent sized animals in 15-20 million year old
sediment.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19561
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
As a paleontologist, |
Would you please share your professional credentials with us? |
B.S. Degree in Earth Science, UC Santa Cruz
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That explains your deficiency -- paleo from Santa Cruz who failed geochemistry 401, and never got exposed to paleoclimatology (nor scientific method)
USC trojans rule!
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
How do you know it isn't an expected phenomenon? |
It is not the fact that it is an expected phenonmenon, it is the rapid pace of the phenonmenon that is unexpected. That is what has 99% of the world
climatologists concerned. I don't know about paleontologists.
GO BEARS!
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jls
Junior Nomad
Posts: 46
Registered: 4-9-2007
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Back to Baja! Isn't one of the main reason we all love Baja --- it is still blessed with a minimum of human garbage in many places. I speak
literally and figuratively. Whether we have as a species been hugely responsible for the junky and changing earth is not the point. Blaming does
not help. We need, for what ever reason that turns your crank, to take care of one another, BAja, and our blue globe.
I, also, have a B.S. in Earth Science. The essence of the universe at the infinitely small to the infinitely large has been one of impermanence and
change. Like it or not we as a species and our earth are both of those things: impermanent and changing. It is the how of change that we may be able
to have some influence over for good or bad.
The group hug now please?
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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Bump
A group hug is not possible because vital members of the group are disappearing............'Poof"! Now Vgabndo's post that I quoted has disappeared.
What is going on??? There is the possibility that Vgabndo removed his own post, but it is strange following other posts disappearing mysteriously.
This is not smelling very good.
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
Al Gore and the internet, like Patrick J Chica's (PJC) US political rant had nothing to do with Baja California. It was correct, in my judgment, to
delete those posts.
It is too bad that the off-topic forum isn't a viable place to have civil discussions. |
The first post in this topic, by the newby "Memo" most certainly is about Baja. I didn't get to see Grover's post so I don't know why it would be
removed. If it were for political reasons, then that sucks. I appreciate reading all the contributions here and am offended that some would be removed
for reasons of political biases of the Mods. We still haven't had the alleged removal confirmed or explained yet.
It is too bad that the global warming issue has become so politicized. That obscures any objective (and therefore valid) viewpoints. It behooves us
all to stay informed, to read as much as we can on the subject. Wouldn't you want to CYA's in case the data is all you have to cling to as the planet
is going down?
Believe what you want, but don't disbelieve anything. And especially, don't be obnoxious while expressing your disbelief. (That statement was not
directed at Vgabndo.) Keep an open mind. We have a responsibility to do so. |
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
That explains your deficiency -- paleo from Santa Cruz who failed geochemistry 401, and never got exposed to paleoclimatology (nor scientific method)
USC trojans rule! |
What are you braying about goat? Santa Cruz has a great Earth Science program. And I passed all my chem classes.
Go Slugs!
The main trouble with the town of Santa Cruz is they still think it is 1972..... That and they, in cooperation with Berkeley, started the whole politically correct mindset; as well as the belief that man is the most evil thing
to happen to the planet. There are truly few places more liberal than Santa Cruz; So you can’t really use that argument that the school I attended
wasn’t ‘liberal’ enough….
How about you, goat? Ever finish that underwater basket degree form the University of Spoiled Children.
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65195
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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If sea levels were rising (in our lifetime)... the many sand spits that connect to islands at low tide in Baja would no longer do so... El Requeson
and Alfonsina's are a couple I have camped on or seen since 1965 or '66 to today... and the still connect to the island at low tide! We camped on the
sand spit at Requeson last summer at the same place I first did in 1966... it still connects with the island at low tide.
This photo below of Bahia San Luis Gonzaga taken from the island trail, above where the sand spit connect to it. That's my Subaru on the sand spit
(picture taken about 22 years ago).
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Bob H
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5867
Registered: 8-19-2003
Location: San Diego
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I usually don't get involved in these discussions.... if one checks record high temperatures in every state in the US over the last 100+ years, you
will learn that record high temps in the U.S. occurred in the late 1800's and very early 1900's. I don't know what that means... but we are cooler
today (avg temps) since that period.
Bob H
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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You can't make any conclusions about sea level by the height or presence of a beach. Beaches are dynamic features that are controlled by wind, waves,
currents, and the amount of available sediment. Here in Half Moon Bay we have beaches that completely disappear in the winter. There's nothing but
solid bedrock. Even at Carlsbad where you live there are sections of the upper beach which are completely removed in the winter.
If the sea level rose the sand spit at Gonzaga would rise right up with it. Sand would continue to be deposited in areas of least energy. Remove the
island and there goes the beach. No matter what the sea level.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob H
if one checks record high temperatures in every state in the US over the last 100+ years, you will learn that record high temps in the U.S. occurred
in the late 1800's and very early 1900's. |
I love it when someone makes this kind of assertion without providing any links to their information. The fact of the matter is that there were only
4 reporting stations in all of California 100 years ago compared with 100's today. Yes, some of those 4 stations do show higher temperatures 100
years ago and some of them show lower or comparable temperatures from 100 years ago. So, it depends on which of the 4 reporting stations you want to
base your conclusions on. Temperatures have been rising all over California at all reporting stations over the last 50 years. 50 years does not
provide sufficient data to indicate a long term trend, but it does provide a reference point to warrant further research.
What is alarming to scientists is the buildup of manmade greenhouse gasses over those same 50 years. We did not have accumulations of manmade
greenhouse gasses to any extent 100 years ago. This is what has almost 100% of climatologists concerned today. Average temperatures, amount of
rainfall, snowpack, etc. are only ancillary issues. That kind of historical data can be manipulated, both pro and con, to support one's conclusions.
The main concern is greenhouse gasses.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
If sea levels were rising (in our lifetime)... the many sand spits that connect to islands at low tide in Baja would no longer do so...
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One's personal observation can hardly be considered a scientific study. Sea levels are determined by comparing to a fixed, known datum. I am unable
to find any of this type of study in Mexico. However there are several in California and research has shown that sea levels, at least in California,
are rising. For example, San Francisco Bay is indeed experiencing higher sea levels over the last 50 years in a steady upward trend. The presumption
is that if sea levels are rising in California, they are probably rising in Baja California too.
Now if you would like to verify my information you can do so at this very easy to read paper prepared by the State of California, co-authored and
co-signed by some of the State's preeminent scientists: http://www.energy.ca.gov/2006publications/CEC-500-2006-077/C...
Apparently, the rising cost and dwindling supply of hydrocarbon fuels is going to result in lower greenhouse emissions in the future - whether we
believe in the concept of global warming or not. So change is coming on a number of different fronts in our immediate future. Some of us will be
prepared for that change - accept and embrace it and adapt to it, and some of us won't.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65195
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What do you plan to do about volcanos... since just 1 volcanic eruption produces more greenhouse emissions than all of man's doings?
Also, there is a growing supply of hyrocarbon fuel... we just keep finding more of the stuff waiting to be used!
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