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Santiago
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TU or SU?
Flowers just threw me a curveball: what's the difference between TU and SU? Dictionary defines both as 'your'. Would you ever say "mi casa es TU
casa"? The exact usage was "tu amigo". Why not "su amigo"?
edit for spelling
[Edited on 11-23-2008 by Santiago]
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David K
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Su is formal (to strangers, people you just met), and Tu is familiar (to children, family and friends).
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BajaGringo
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Can also be used for plural form
Mi casa es su casa
Referring to a more than one...
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Santiago
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Ah - so 'su amigo' makes no sense - kind of an oximarooon?
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lingililingili
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I believe you could say "yo soy su amigo" or "soy su amigo" especially to an elder referring to yourself as their friend. Or am I thinking wrong?
•Life is just one damned thing after another
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BajaGringo
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Good catch - it can also be used to say "his" or "her"
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David K
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SU AMIGO: A person you just met (in Mexico) is often a NEW friend!
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Ken Bondy
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This is way above my pay grade, but aren't there two usages for "tu"? One is the formal and familiar possessive, "tu mano", "su mano" - "your hand";
and the other is the formal and familiar second person pronoun "tu" and "usted" for "you". It's been a long time 
carpe diem!
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Eugenio
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The difference between tu and su isn't simply informal/formal - a lot of it has to do with respect - and the costoms in the particular hispanic
subculture (country) you're dealing with.
For starters: The familiar pronoun tù is written different from the familiar adjective tu:
Tù eres mi amigo. Soy tu amigo.
The plurals are: Ustedes (tù) and tus (tu) in Mexico.
Ustedes son mis amigos. Somos tus amigos.
In most other spanish speaking countries the plurals are: Vosotros (tù) and tus (tu).
Vosotros sois mis amigos. Somos tus amigos.
A lot of times the accent isn´t used for the pronoun - but it certainly is if there´s ambiguity. In fact I think the Academy folks made it legal to
use either - I'll have to check.
Su is the adjective associated with the more formal pronoun usted:
Usted es mi amigo. Soy su amigo.
The plurals are ustedes and sus:
Ustedes son mis amigos. Somos sus amigos.
We can go further if there's interest.
Oso has posted some funny stuff on this forum where there can be amiguity between tu and su.
I usually go with Usted/su until the person I'm speaking with indicates a change to tu.
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Oso
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tu y usted
¿Sabes la diferencia que existe entre "tu" y "usted"?.
Un pequeño ejemplo ilustrara muy bien esta diferencia.
El director general de un banco, se preocupaba por un joven director "estrella" que después de un periodo de trabajo junto a el, sin parar nunca ni
para almorzar, empieza a ausentarse al mediodía.
Entonces el director general llama al detective privado del banco y le dice:
"Siga a Martínez una semana entera, no vaya a ser que ande en algo malo o sucio".
El detective cumple con su cometido, vuelve e informa.
"Martínez sale normalmente al mediodía coge su coche, va a su casa a almorzar, luego le hace el amor a su mujer, se fuma uno de sus excelentes habanos
y vuelve a trabajar".
Responde el director:
"¡Ah, bueno, menos mal, no hay nada malo en todo eso!
Luego el detective pregunta: ¿Puedo tutearlo, señor?
Sorprendido el director responde: "Si, como no".
Y el detective dice:
"Te repito: Martínez sale normalmente al mediodía, coge tu coche, va a tu casa a almorzar, luego le hace el amor a tu mujer, se fuma uno de tus
excelentes habanos y vuelve a trabajar".
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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thebajarunner
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We did all this a while back
I generally defer to Oso on language.
We thoroughly thrashed this some time back, but I cannot bring it up easily through search.
My wife is from Jalisco.
In Jalisco you always refer to mother as 'usted'
We have good friends in Mexico City (D.F.)
Attorney and executive family and they always refer to mother as 'tu'
So, you see, it is not all that easy...
and then of course there is the "voz" which is an even more familiar genre of "tu" but guess that just complicates this even more than need be....
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oldlady
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Like Eugenio, I go with usted. Since I don't think in Spanish, it saves the mental flailing of conjugating the verb into the familiar form.
Aside: My Mexican friends encourage me to use the familar, explaining the "usted" indicates respect and is formal. I tell them I want them to know
how much I respect them.  It works.
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thebajarunner
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When in doubt------ Usted
But, to use 'usted' in all cases is a pretty lousy way to interact.
I quit putting "Sir" at the end of every sentence the day I walked down the gangway of the ship for the last time.
If you like "usted" you would love the US Navy.
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oldlady
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Welllll, I like them both, but not for the same reasons.
You are absolutely right! That we care to ask the question indicates we are making an effort within the limits of our hopefully ever growing
capabilities.
It's important to me to indicate I am interacting with respect rather than be completely misunderstood or offensive in an effort to be familiar.
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Eugenio
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The usted/tu deal notwithstanding there are cases where use of the possesive pronoun adjective su can lead to amibuity - for example if you want to
tell a cop "thanks a bunch" - the indicated phrase would be "chingue a su 'uta 'adre" - but there's ambiguity as to precisely whose hoar of a mother
you're referring to - could be anybody's - as stated above - su can be either 2nd or 3rd person familiar singular.
At the same time for reasons of respect you don't want to start using tu as in "chinga a tu 'uta 'adre."
In these cases I usually go with " de usted" - so the complete sentence would be "Chingue a la 'uta 'adre de usted." - this conveys respect while
leaving no ambiguity. And will probably get you out of any fine.
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Santiago
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Thanks a lot you guys - very illuminating indeed. I ask what should be a very simple question and get gobblygook up the ying-yang. If I don't know
the difference between these two simple words, trying to 'splain it to me in SPANISH is just plain dumb.
I know the difference, in a rudimentary way, between usted and tu. But answer me this: When I'm sitting on my front porch and a worker drives up that
I haven't seen in a few months, he parks his truck and comes over for a cold drink and I say "como esta usted" and he says "muy bien; y tu?"
Shouldn't I say "como esta tu"? I have never heard this before. We will obviously switch to 'tu' right away - why don't I just start out with it?
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Paula
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Santiago, the verb form for tu is different, it has an "s" on it. So the familiar Of Como esta Ud. is Como estas (tu). In informal talk the tu is
rarely said, so the perfect thing to say is como estas. And if you are still in doubt about which form you want to use, you can say that final "s" so
subtly that it could be heard as como esta,and the listener will hear what he thinks is right. It is perfectlu OK to say either como esta or como
estas.
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thebajarunner
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Ouch!!! Do I detect an "attitude" here??
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Thanks a lot you guys - very illuminating indeed. I ask what should be a very simple question and get gobblygook up the ying-yang. If I don't know
the difference between these two simple words, trying to 'splain it to me in SPANISH is just plain dumb.
I know the difference, in a rudimentary way, between usted and tu. But answer me this: When I'm sitting on my front porch and a worker drives up that
I haven't seen in a few months, he parks his truck and comes over for a cold drink and I say "como esta usted" and he says "muy bien; y tu?"
Shouldn't I say "como esta tu"? I have never heard this before. We will obviously switch to 'tu' right away - why don't I just start out with it?
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You did not ask a "simple question."
You asked a question whose answer is filled with nuance and subtlety. And, some geographical distinctions to boot.
I have been married to a Mexican lady (muy elegante, I may add), have four grown sons adopted from a La Mision orphanage, and I do not know precisely
who, where and how the "tu" is expressed.
I cannot use it with my mother-in-law, which is quite perplexing, but that is the way it is.
And, previous comments are quite correct, when you want to "use the tu" you generally do not "speak the tu."
Ask simple questions, we will endeavor to give simple answeres.
This is not a simple question.
Sabes tu???
o
Tu Sabes??
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Santiago
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Thank you Paula - I have a little better understanding.
Touche to the runner.
As to your mother-in-law, there is no answer that any man would understand. Out of morbid curiousity, just what would she do/reply if you asked her,
"como estas"?
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thebajarunner
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Great question Santiago
| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Thank you Paula - I have a little better understanding.
Touche to the runner.
As to your mother-in-law, there is no answer that any man would understand. Out of morbid curiousity, just what would she do/reply if you asked her,
"como estas"? |
Actually, I don't think she cares what we call her.
(Six months after the 14th kid was born, Papa died suddenly, and Mama has mostly sat and watched the world go by and been waited upon ever since)
But, mi esposa is constantly (and kindly) reminding me that Mama is "usted" and everyone in the family respects that,
even yours truly, when I don't slip.
By the by, I tend to use the "tu" form with everyone, from the dog to the governor, since my Spanish is learned and not acquired it is just simpler
that way,
and I can always plead ignorance, no one ever argues when I use that excuse.
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