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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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Photos (3) showing the flight crew have been removed after communicating with Capt. Mike. Thanks for the explaining!
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for the rest of us, what's the secret regarding the crew??? but then if you told us it wouldn't be a secret!!!! what's up???
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3718
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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Yeah, and the NTSB might even have a clue
| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
If this incident had happened anywhere in the states it would have been on CNN as well as all of the local networks complete with crew interviews- no
big secrets there. The real hero here is the Pilatus pilot who guided a crew who were in all probability very stressed, to the best available
alternative landing spot. Without him they would have in all probability headed for the beach or any apparently clear spot with high chance of an ugly
outcome. As to the cause- the experts will sort it out and a report will be coming in 6 months to a year. Meanwhile us armchair NTSB inspectors can
speculate to our hearts content. As the old saying goes "Any landing you can walk away from is a good one." |
They wrote three reports on my partner's fatal.
And not a one of the reports came up with a conclusion.
Add to that several credible eyewitnesses, the plane more intact than you might expect,
and nada
zip
nuthin'
My confidence in their reporting, having a first hand experience, is not so good, sorry to say.
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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Based on everything that has been reported here, I think the pilot did a helluva job (other than running out of gas  ). Like Mike sez, the windsock at PSFO was very hard to see, even when it was
there. I used to try to scare someone up at the bar on 122.8, but when that didn't work, I just relied on the white water on the waves. That would
generally tell me where the wind was coming from. If no white water, no wind. But that was when I had engine(s) running. Under these deadstick
circumstances wind was secondary. I don't know if landing to the north was the pilot's choice or if he had NO choice, but in either case it probably
saved their lives. Much better to end up halfway up that hill than in the water. Cheers and congratulations to the KingAir driver!!
[Edited on 12-8-2008 by Ken Bondy]
carpe diem!
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Back to the Aircraft Accident:
This appears to be a routine Aircraft Accident caused by Pilot Error: Pilot reported that he ran out of Fuel-
He made a difficult decesion and landed the proper direction it seems to me. He appears to be a good Pilot except when he checks his Fuel>
Could it be that one of the members of the Crew where not sup[pose to be where they were??, Therefore did not want to be I. D>
There does not appear to be any Liability involved only Collison Damage.
Skeet
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aha baja
Nomad
Posts: 221
Registered: 1-19-2005
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Mood: wherever you go, there you are...
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Probably felt like a shuttle pilot dead stickin' it on down after re-entry!!! It's just the runway isn't as long as Edwards (miles long) or the Cape.
Thankfully he didn't "auger in". You know what they say " any landing you walk away from is a good one"
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Capt Mike... You seem a little overly sensitive about anyone sharing any details for any accidents. Why?
I also think it is important to share the information. As a pilot, I can learn alot for these reports. Sure it's a shame and embarrassing for the
crew. But it happened. An not talking about it doesn't undo the accident.
Any pieces of information might pervent a furture accident. Pilots learn alot about what not to do when other pilots make mistakes. Or what can be
done right in the event of an emergency and the pilot saves the plane and his life.
This pilot saved his own life and his passengers. And that plane can probably be repaired.
It does seem unlikely that a pilot of that caliber would run out of fuel. But it does happen.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
It does seem unlikely that a pilot of that caliber would run out of fuel. But it does happen. |
-----especially if he took on fuel in liters, and forgot to convert it, thinking it was gallons (????) Yep, it does happen.
Barry
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Does anyone know if tha plane belonged to Rainbow Air at Long Beach. He has (or had) a couple of King Airs for charter and medivac.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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cymeryss
Junior Nomad
Posts: 50
Registered: 12-20-2004
Location: San Diego
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Mood: So much to see, so little time...
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Yes, it belonged to Rainbow air. We were there for thankgiving (actually at Panchos) and the plane had an open hatch and definately made for
spectacular photos and I am glad no one was hurt.
One questions that came up to my mind is how they are going to transport it. I guess cut the wings and put it on a truck.....lots of work!!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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-----the wings come off pretty easily, actually, at least they do on other aircraft I have worked on. They will need to bring the right equipment
down, tho, to get it done. I have seen big fuel tanker trucks in there before, so it certainly is doable via the El Arco road. One of those big
independent logger rigs with the crane mounted behind the cab would probably do the trick. Fun, fun.
Barry
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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The wings can be unbolted at the wing root. I would think thay would take the horizontal stabalizer off too.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Frigatebird
Nomad
Posts: 215
Registered: 9-12-2004
Location: L.A. County
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Mood: Soaring
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
... As a pilot, I can learn alot from these reports. Sure it's a shame and embarrassing for the crew. But it happened. And not talking about it
doesn't undo the accident.
Any pieces of information might prevent a furture accident. Pilots learn alot about what not to do when other pilots make mistakes. Or what can be
done right in the event of an emergency and the pilot saves the plane and his life.
... |
I fly a paraglider and often read the accidents reports of this type of aviation on the forums. YouTube is filled with many examples of what not to
do. Without paying mind to the mishaps and tragedies that come with leaving terra firma, many pilots will become complacent and perhaps
overconfident. The investigative truth about this flight will benefit all who are involved with flying.
Avatar courtesy of Herb
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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yes - the pilot/crew was an idiot for allowing his picture taken, especially if in fact it was fuel starvation. My point was that the pictures and
email were confidential and had a right to privacy until/unless the originator released them. Common courtesy, that's all.
until the facts are clear, there is only way too much speculation as to what happened. and yes there ARE contingent liabilities in play even tho it
appears no one on the ground or from the air was hurt. Those that don't get that have not spent much time around attys, courts or the tort system.
you can learn plenty from the incident without seeing the faces of the crew who might be at fault or the N numbers. and the email, before posting,
might have had names X'd out - it is easy to do and keep the basic story line intact.
it is for the reasons above this has not been sensationalized on BBP ala Weekly World News or Inside Edition.
my guess is Juan Escalante will recover it, he does most of them big and small. the last ones i watched him take out were the 210 that geared up and
the Beech that took out the fence line both at BBP whales 2006 at El Gallito; and a piper tripacer that ground looped and tore a wing off at PSFO a
few years earlier.
Mexican law requires that foreign aircraft involved in disabling incidents be removed from the premises and/or country at cost to the owner - you
cannot simply leave it broken someplace if it is a total.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64842
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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capt. mike:
"yes - the pilot/crew was an idiot for allowing his picture taken, especially if in fact it was fuel starvation. My point was that the pictures and
email were confidential and had a right to privacy until/unless the originator released them. Common courtesy, that's all."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
soulpatch:
"I understand his point and I took quite a bit of time to shoot this out thru DK because I wanted to make sure the guy who sent it to me was OK with
it..... I am all about privacy issues.
No sweat..."
=======================================================
So, to wrap this up, the originator did realease them before they appeared on Nomad.
The photos of the crew were removed anyway after capt. mike explained they have a reason for privacy... I do think their names were already known by
all concerned... but, maybe they will get new names...? That's a lot cheaper than to get new faces...
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18373
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
you can learn plenty from the incident without seeing the faces of the crew who might be at fault or the N numbers. and the email, before posting,
might have had names X'd out - it is easy to do and keep the basic story line intact.
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they happened to get involved in a newsworthy event, so they should deal with being news. pilots and crew have no special right to privacy -- they
crash a plane, they get in the news. what's the big deal if their names become known? if they are embarrassed, they should just deal with it and
move on with life. if they wanted to remain anonymous, they should have avoided crashing or fled the scene before cameras showed up 
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Recovery will more than likely be with a good Salvage Person removing the Wings and possible Engines, Gear then transporting to the States _After
paying the Proper mexican Aviation Offical for Permission!!
My first Salvage of this type was before the Road opened, I cam eacross the Ferry picked up the Fuselege, Wings, put on a Trailer and back across the
Ferry. Vaughn Lamb charged the Insurance Co. $5,000 for the Trip.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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I remember back in the early '60's Dutch Schultz of JIMSAIR out of Lindberg Field flew a crashed Beech Baron (twin) out of BOLA with duct tape
plugging the holes in the wings and fuselage. We duct taped sheets of aluminum skin onto the leading edges of the wings to make them resemble an
"airworthy" surface (they had large holes in them from the crash). Fun, fun. He flew it all the way back to Lindberg non-stop, with special
permission from the authrorities.
We also crated up a Beech twin Bonanza that crashed in Cabo in the early '60's and shipped it out of Cabo on a frieghter to Lindberg field.
Both of these airplanes we put back together to their original condition and walla, we had two more airplanes for the "fleet" at JimsAir. I flew both
of them, and they were great to fly.
We (Jim Bracamonte) picked up both these aircraft for pennies on the dollar as "salvage".
Where there is a will, there is a way. 
Barry
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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great history Barry. JimsAir is a long standing icon in socal.
more stories and history please, new thread or whatever if you can.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Barry:
Why did not you guys take out that Tri-Pacer that sat at Bay of Los Angeles for so many years???
Also did you get involved in the Nut Tree Owners Crash as they were decending into the BaY??
Guy named Powers whose family owned the Nutreee near Vacaville got caught in a Wind Shear, lost the Wings when making a Descent into Bay of Los
Angeles.
P>S. I am still trying to locate anyone who knows about the Twin Engine Aircraft sunk in the Mud off of Pt Chivato.
Anyone Know??
Skeet
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8946
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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Bump - Add this to discussion on recent Baja plane crashes.
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