castaway$
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Title Insurance?
when buying RE in baja is it common to get title insurance or is their other documentation that indicates a clear title?
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by castaway$
when buying RE in baja is it common to get title insurance or is their other documentation that indicates a clear title? |
It is becoming more common. Stewart Title is who we dealt with, they are a very large international company with an office in Tijuana.
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Russ
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Title Ins is a really good idea. Stewart Title is what most people have here in Punta Chivato. It is a little different than the States here it can
also cover any buildings on the property it you lose your land. Ours averaged about $1200 and I think they want some upfront to do a title search
before they'll insure you. They have escrow services too. I went through there Texas office 7 or so years ago so TJ may be the place to go now. Google
them, give them a call and feel beter aboit the place you bought or going to buy. "Choche" was the one that did all the leg work for us so if he reads
this he can send you some info.
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castaway$
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So nobody has come right out and said it but while it's a good idea a lot of purchases don't have title insurance? and if not is their some type of
simple lien search and verification that the property is eligble to be sold by the person selling. I know-------its Mexico! don't spend any more than
you can afford to lose, but I want to go in eyes wide open and know which options exist and which if any are BS.
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Russ
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When you apply for your fideiocamiso (sp) the bank does a search but I suspect not a very extensive one. Also worth mentioning, if there are any legal
issues concerning the property after you have the fidieocamiso you are required to get permission from the bank to use your attorney. The bank's
lawyers are suppose to handle all legal matters but don't.
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Cochi
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Call Doug Creekmore at Stewart Title , 1-713-625-8100. He was our contact. Stewarts atty went to S Rosalia and did a search in local records before
they would issue insurance. At that time the cost was 6 bucks per 1000 of insured value. At the time our area was having legal issues and rumors of
..... anyway I saw title insurance as a avenue of having Mexican legal representation without blindly throwing $ to attorneys.....for some
reasons after placing the insurance coincidently those threats quit. I would like to think it helped and at least we have a contact for questions
regarding threats and what the policy covers.
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Gaucho
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Castaway$,
If you choose to go through with a real estate transaction any where in Mexico without getting title insurance you run an unnessasary risk. It's some
of the best money you will ever spend. Most people would get title insurance for a real estate transaction in the States, why wouldn't you do it in
Mexico???? Land disputes are a very real thing in Mexico and much more common than in the U.S.
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islandmusicteach
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If anyone anywhere has ever collected on a title insurance policy in Mexico through a cash settlement or actual legal representation in court, or know
of anyone who has, please share your story.
- Marko
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islandmusicteach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by morgaine7
Here's a link to a legal paper on title insurance in the US and Mexico:
http://law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1836/
Click on "Download the paper". It's long-ish but easy to read.
FWIW, I don't have title insurance and don't lose any sleep over it.
Kate |
That was a pretty good read. The upshot: title insurance in Mexico is unnecessary, with the following caveat:
"A distinction should be made between a foreigner who wishes to reside in Mexico and a foreigner who wishes to purchase property in Mexico as a second
residence or vacation home.
Foreigners who wish to purchase property in Mexico but do
not intend to reside there, consistently employ reliable, local
counsel, or educate themselves about the civil legal system
should consider title insurance as a cheaper, simpler, and less time intensive way of resolving a problem, should one occur."
- Marko
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SunloverBaja
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I had purchased title insurance on my mexican home some years ago and showed the policy to friend who worked for a title insurance company in Oregon.
He told me that not one title insurer in Mexico has ever paid out on a singleclaim.Ever.
It seems that they would rather fight for your rights in the Mexican courts where there is never any resolution and the process can take decades. I
paid $400.00 for my policy at the time so it was a cheap way to sleep better at night even though it was not worth the paper it was printed on.
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longlegsinlapaz
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I've bought 3 separate properties in the El Comitan/Centenatio area outside of La Paz since 1999. All properties had title issued at time of purchase
(not Ejido land) & 2 of the 3 I later resold without any problems. I feel that since the Notario does title check as part of the Fidiecomiso
process, that title insurance is unneccessary & redundant cost. I've talked with several realtors about their feelings/experience regarding title
insurance & except for the ones who have a possible vested interest with a title insurance company, all have said it's costly, redundant &
that they personally know of NO instance where title insurance has paid off in the event of a problem.
Like Morgaine7, I'm not losing any sleep over it....despite the fact that I DO have more invested than I can afford to walk away from!
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Gaucho
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As long as you can sleep at night after you've made your decision that's all that counts...
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longlegsinlapaz
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Gaucho, if you think there's a flaw in my logic, feel free to tell me......
If I buy a lot with clear title & a Fideicomiso is issued in my name, then as long as I maintain the clear title status, don't default on my
annual Fideicomiso payments, no liens are filed against my legally owned property & no lien can be placed on that property under the previous
owners name, how am I in jeopardy?? (above & beyond the fact that we are in MX & yes, I know that "local authorities" can occasionally have a
tendency to want to play by a different set of rules on occasion!) I've actually physically gotten the original title issued
from each of the original named title holders in my hot little hand on each of the property purchases I've made.
Bottom line....if Fideicomiso is only issued on clear titled property & I don't do anything to mess up clear title status, then the (my)
presumption is that title will remain clear.
But for the record, I wouldn't sleep well if I were attempting a transaction involving either Ejido or leased land. I know others have had successful transactions with Ejido or leasing....I've heard as many horror stories as I have
happy endings....but personally, I'm only comfortable dealing with titled property.
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castaway$
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Thanks all for your input- As per president elect Obama- we have stimulated a vigorous debate but I will make the final decision. Thanks all!!!
Live Indubiously!
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Gaucho
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Longlegs, what you say makes perfect sense. I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically. It was a general statement. 
When I had a title search done on my property they traced it all the way back to an 1880's land grant from the Mexican government up to the family I
bought it from a few years back. I think to alot of people title insurance is a racket. For me, personally, I wanted it.
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gnukid
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The title is registered in the Satastro for the region and county where the land is. It is possible to go the Catastro yourself to see who is the
registered title holder. For BCS the catsro is in La Paz on Colosio near soriana, its the large building where you can pay property taxes.
How you check for liens I do not know? Though they may be noted there as well?
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capitolkat
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Title insurance
several years ago when I bought my property and went through the Fideo process I looked at the title insurance issue. I cheked with several local
realtors and others who had just begun the lending practices in Mexico. When I was in law school my real property instructor was one of the founders
of American Title Insurance in Santa Ana- Oscar Beasley- and I frequently did some work on titles in my first job during law school- CA doesn't have
many lawyers doing title work due to the insurance requirements by lenders. In any case I looked at the Mexican title policies- my God the exclusions
eat up the policy- and if coverage isn't excluded it's so confusing that my opinion is that it's not enforcable- So I talked to the Notario and asked
about his work on the title and the meaning of his certification of clear title and no taxes--
Needless to say I didn't buy the policy and I sleep fine- if that's the criteria on how much you need the policy-so do whatever you think makes sense
for you to sleep well- but from my corner don't bank on the title policy bailing you out if some day a claim on title pops up. -- Norm
Life is too short to drink bad wine
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Osprey
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Right on Norm, the devil is in the details. I've heard that there exist more and broader restrictions, exclusions in title policies issued for
property in Mexico than the TP 1 usually used in the U.S. I've even heard title reps say the policies are more restrictive. Stands to reason that they
would be because the U.S. title/lien reporting system is comprehensive to say the least and the Mexican system is not (to say the least) -- throw in
Napoleonic law, non-jury court styles and you have people anxious for extra protection and indemnitors with a need to crimp the contract.
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gnukid
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The other day I became aware of various incidents where people had been taken in sales of prebuilt properties, I became aware of the lack of laws or
any requirements of "agency" in real estate in Mexico and I became aware that many things are not as they are stated or as they seem. In fact as you
look into Bien Raices in Mexico so many things are apparently not what they seem or more clearly not as we expect them to be from our American set
expectations. I got a sick feeling in my stomach and I decided for myself to insure that my papers were correct and void of liens.
So I panicked. I decided that I had to get involved and find out for myself the process of title search, scritoros and fidicomiso. I went to each
Notaria I could in La Paz and interviewed the head Notaria about the process, the steps and the methods to search title and complete the scritoros and
fidicomiso. I also asked about the current state of sales coming through those offices in order to understand real prices.
I went on to interview many agents, some of who are considered to be the top level agents in BCS. I found a huge disconnect between the facts stated
by Notarias, the Castro registro and those comments made by "Agents". I also found Notarias who didn't know alot about Fidicomisos and I found senior
architects and patriachs who schooled me for hours at length about fidis and scritoros.
Finally, I went to the Catasrto on Colosio to see the microfiche and plot maps.
As I understand only a Notaria can complete your paperwork. Period. The notaria should be close with the Catastro and should an open phone line and be
able to initiate investigations quickly and in detail.
Most transactions occur person to person via a classified ad or among friends who go together to visit the Notaria. Agency sales are few to
non-existent. Some well known Bien Raices offices are out of business now? The listed price is rarely paid and is often just a starting point,
sometimes the offer price is more than double the sale price.
An agent, lawyer or title search expert can only contact these people Notaria, Catastro and Bank fidi rep to do the work that you are already going to
pay for in your interaction with the Notaria and Fidi rep. Choose the Notaria wisely. In fact, including an agent, lawyer or title search agent may
cause more problems if they do not work on your behalf. And why should the? They are likely in incollusion and often are.
The days of paying an Agent %10 flat fee are gone. The days of paying a retainer to agents in advance are gone. The days of paying deposits or full
price before the paperwork is complete are gone. Please please go slow and take the time to get involved in your purchase, do not project your
expectations on the agents, they will take your money and fail to act, not becuase they are intent on stealing, more likely they are incompetent and
lazy and on vacation with your money.
A fidicomiso is often used by Mexicans as well as foreigners. They are trusts setup to manage the ownership title and pay the fees associated with
title. For example, I found that in many cases a fidcomiso account would be setup to pay taxes, to pay the fidi fee, the water, electricity etc... So
you never will become delinquent and incur a lien. This is helpful especially when you live remotely, have many houses or if you don't want to waste
your time paying each bill monthly and incur late charges.
So, if you have any concern go visit your notaria first , go often and go visit the catastro and your bank trust holder--they are the only ones
capable and required to ensure your title is correct and devoid of liens.
In general the process of completing a sale with fidi takes about 3-6weeks and requires you to be present to sign and pay.
You may still choose to have a lawyer and an agent but just be sure that you understand what they can and will do, they are only capable of taking
your call and forwarding the request to the aforementioned parties and relaying the offers and questions. More than likely they are simply going to
incur costs and inflate the prices and costs with no gain and in fact most of them fail and they will harm you severely by their inaction and
increased costs.
I could suggest a Notaria, Agent or lawyer but its best if you pursue it yourself first-the Buyer may choose the Notaria so do not accept the sellers
or lawyers suggestion to work with their Notaria-it is not in your interests. If you really need help pm me and I'll give you a reference which may be
taken with a grain of salt though I have had success so far with low costs and clear title and now peace of mind.
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