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capn.sharky
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Posts: 686
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Air Alaska to Loreto
How come it has become so expensive to fly round trip to and from Loreto? There is no competition except Delta (I think). If Fonatur wants to
develop this area they should talk with the airlines to get cheaper flights from LAX to LTO. Can't be the cost of Avgas---oil has really dropped in
price. How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away. I really miss the old days of AeroCalifornia. At my age, driving
down is no longer an option. Any ideas? I am sure that the cost of flying is part of the problem of no tourists in Loreto. Maybe I should be happy
about the price as it keeps the gringos away. On the other hand, I don't like to see my Mexican friends fighting for every dollar they get.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Bajaboy
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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I think you answered your own question...there is no competition.
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LOSARIPES
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The airlines -as other businesses- have an operational cost. They determine, after careful analysis a "break even point" load factor (LF) or
percentage of the aircraft seats sold, necessary to pay for the ops cost.
When the LF is low, the fares need to be higher. Conversely, the lower the fares, the higher the LF needed to reach the so called break even point.
It is not uncommon to see state/fed government as well other assoc. with interest participate in programs whereby they guarantee each flight will
reach its break even point by paying the difference between actual LF and the desired LF.
La Paz was into those programs -not sure- with old airlines (defunct by now) as Bonanza and Hughes Airwest (remember?)
It doesn't help that there is only one airline.
There is also a co-relation or ratio between no. of beds in the destination and weekly no. of aircraft seats. This determines the flight capacity and
frequency necessary to fill the destination. Generally, -I don't know about Loreto- the airlines complain about the lack of hotel capacity when it
comes to incipient tourist destinations as LTO.
So.... in my humble opinion, Alaska and Fonatur maybe are/have been working on a deal and what they are doing now is the best they could. Just maybe.
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
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Pompano
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Mood: Optimistic
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Loreto is no longer a good choice for us either, capt. sharkey...at least for now.
A round trip ticket from Mpls, Minnesota to Cabo with 1 stop was/is $560 for Christmas arrival SJD and departure SJD in March. Beats the heck out of
over $1000 to LTO with a grueling overnight flight.
Resort Airlines
Aero California
Guenell Air
Cortez Air
Mexicana
United
etc..none to Loreto anymore
Thank Dios for mi amigo, Dusty..Free....just pay a share of fuel costs and bring your own coffee can and lid.
"Fly with Dusty..to places you probably shouldn't be."
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Bajahowodd
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Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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There was a brief period when Alaska, Delta and Frontier were flying to LTO. Load factors must have been awful. As it is, it's probably a subsidized
situation with Alaska. Let's face it, an international flight to a town with a population of 10,000??!
I'm more surprised at the lack of service and the high costs for flights to La Paz, which has a population of more than ten times Loreto.
Even Cabo has seen a decrease in the number of seats recently. But things may change in the coming year, what with the Southwest-Volaris code share
agreement. Even now, people in SoCal can take Volaris from TJ to Cabo. But you don't see Volaris flying to LTO, do you?
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Packoderm
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Do they have flights from Cabo to Loreto?
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Bajahowodd
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Nothing on a scheduled airline. Even prices from LAX to Cabo fluctuate wildly. It was that many years ago I could fly that route for about $200.
Although fares are currently lower, I have recently seen fares on that route for over $500. Bottom line is that the airlines are not going to fly
unless they fill seats. Last June, I drove from LA to Cabo staying over in El Rosario, San Ignacio and Loreto, and saved about $500 from what it would
have cost to fly two people.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
Do they have flights from Cabo to Loreto? |
You can take a single-engine Aero Calafia flight from Cabo to Loreto, costs about 1200 pesos.
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Bajahowodd
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Is that one way?
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Is that one way? |
I think so, but don't know for sure. The web site is not working right for me.
http://www.aereocalafia.com.mx/en/index.php
I see the planes fly over my house, big Cessnas.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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Days gone by
Have you donated to the toy drive yet?
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Called the number, but it's disconnected.
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mulegemichael
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...here's part of the problem...probably a BIG part....and i'm no guru when it comes to this stuff...but i remember back when gas prices were sky
high, the airline folks "bet" on a price...guessed and gambled on the idea that it wouldn't go any higher and that's where they locked in. "We are
gonna gamble that it's gonna get a bunch higher and we will be willing to pay this horrible price but no more"...or some such crap....so...we are
still paying this exhorbitant price for avgas when, in fact, it's now down to a price that is 1/3 of what it was just a couple months ago...ok..did i
confuse you enough?...or did anyone follow what i just tried to explain?...there's a "term" for this kinda thing but i'm not sure what it is...hedging
your bets comes to mind
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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Registered: 11-7-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Loreto is no longer a good choice for us either, capt. sharkey...at least for now.
A round trip ticket from Mpls, Minnesota to Cabo with 1 stop was/is $560 for Christmas arrival SJD and departure SJD in March. Beats the heck out of
over $1000 to LTO with a grueling overnight flight. |
OK, so theoretically you pay $560 to get to Cabo (round trip - it damned sure better be), stay at Club Cabo, or equivalently cheap, and have drinks at
The Office, then make your way to Loreto for 240 pesos round trip. Sure, that's a bunch of bucks, but it is a sight better that paying $1,000 for a
punishing overnighter.
Myself, I bought a $250 junker van which I pray to the holy-ghouly makes it all the way to Cabo, and then three of us are flying back to Sac. for $230
apiece total price apiece. Actually, it's a pretty nice van. I just today fitted it with a double bed setup I got on craigslist for free. It already
had a bench seat for my son to ride/sleep. If the van doesn't make it - we take the bus to Cabo. I'm going to suggest/force my 8 year old son to put
together a photo/written journal, which I'll post as a trip report. I'll explain to him how cool it is to post a trip report, and then his writing
will have a purpose. I'm pretty stoked about the trip even though the dog stays home. 
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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...and the VW bus stays home too.
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Bajahowodd
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Yes, Michael. That's why Southwest Airlines posted their first quarterly loss in their history recently. They had been flying high (pun intended) the
past couple of years because they had hedged their fuel purchases at a "lower" price. When the bottom fell out, they found themselves paying way over
current market price. But then, Wall Street has become the biggest casino in the world.
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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
How come it has become so expensive to fly round trip to and from Loreto? There is no competition except Delta (I think). If Fonatur wants to
develop this area they should talk with the airlines to get cheaper flights from LAX to LTO. Can't be the cost of Avgas---oil has really dropped in
price. How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away. I really miss the old days of AeroCalifornia. At my age, driving
down is no longer an option. Any ideas? I am sure that the cost of flying is part of the problem of no tourists in Loreto. Maybe I should be happy
about the price as it keeps the gringos away. On the other hand, I don't like to see my Mexican friends fighting for every dollar they get.
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It is all about competition and load factors. That is also why it is usually cheaper for me to fly from San Diego to Europe than it is to fly from San
Diego to South Dakota (where my wife is from). Cabo flights are more competitive and are usually fuller. When Alaska and Delta were competing in GOOD
economic times the Delta flights were rarely half full. FONATUR is no longer assisting Loreto to any extent; it is now left up to the free market.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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geeze my quote went away gotta try again..
Free market rules.
There are a number of reasons why the airlines into here are lacking and it boils down to demand. There is less of it than in past years because
Loreto has lost a few hotels (30-40% of the rooms) that offered commissions to travel agents and agencies (such as the in house agencies the airlines
own). The fact that agents will have to mark up a hotels rates that doesn't offer commission vs. sell a pre-packaged product that includes their
commission without a markup may explain why agents have little to no motive to sell this destination. With this situation they also are less likely
to promote LTO packages as well. Maybe with all the grand plans around here this will change but those additions will need to be what the market for
the LTO destination can bear. At this time it is a natural wonder and excursion type of destination suited to adventure travel and sport. Fancy
hotels and restaurants with equally fancy pricetags won't bring them in just because they will decide to open their doors. So for a certain crowd
that knows what they are coming here for, the couple of hundred extra for the airfare will be worth it so as long as they KNOW what to expect and are
not duped into thinking that Loreto is something that it is not (not yet anyway). I would like to see our business community come together and
provide an excellent level service and a quality vacation experience in every way. This will ensure repeat visitors and also create more demand for
this destination. It takes time but its worth it and better than the alternative, that of the government intervening and telling us what we need and
what kind of destination to be. When there's a worthy demand there will be more options but for now we gots what we gots.
Feliz Navidad everyone!
[Edited on 12-23-2008 by flyfishinPam]
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Not that I ever want to see it come to it, but why is it that FONATUR was never able to launch the mega resort at Loreto like Cabo and Cancun? I
thought that's what they had in mind way back when. I understand they are just getting started on a new mainland project North of PV.
As for airfare- maybe deregulation wasn't the answer. Just a few weeks back I noticed prices from LAX to Honolulu, London and Cabo were within $30 of
each other. A two hour flight versus a eight hour flight. (Cabo v London)
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by morgaine7
| Quote: | Originally posted by capn.sharky
How can it be cheaper to fly to Cabo or La Paz when they are farther away. |
FWIW, La Paz is no better off for direct flights to LAX. Alaska/Horizon is it. Though we have a much larger population than Loreto, there are
probably not many more travelers to and from the US. When trying to book a holiday trip to visit family in Ohio, I was coming up with outrageous
connections for $1300 USD and up. Last May, when Delta was still flying, the same trip was $700-something. I finally got one for $1000, red-eye and
4-5 flight legs in each direction. Whatta deal! 
Kate |
at least La Paz is closer than the 7-8 hour ONE WAY bus trip! Flying SJC for the LAP destination is a pretty reasonable option.
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