biglar
Junior Nomad
Posts: 37
Registered: 10-9-2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
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Propane Systems
With the recent discussion on filling propane tanks, a thought came to mind.
In about 1987, more or less, my landlords at the time were preparing for retirement and building a house at Pedregal, on the peninsula across from San
Quintin.
I went to visit them once, and enjoyed looking over the little community there. Pedregal is a beautiful place, they built nice stone houses, nice
folks, nice lifestyle and so on.
But......in every home I visited, I could smell propane. I looked at several supply systems, and all were using regular old schedule 40 white PVC
pipe, and that pipe was sitting exposed to the sun.
In my experience, PVC degrades rapidly in sunlight and gets brittle and weak. When I questioned my friend, who worked for the Southern California Gas
Co., he dismissed my concern, saying "that's how everyone does it. Don't worry about it," or words to that effect.
I'm sorry, folks, I did and do worry about it. PVC has no place in a propane system. Someone there is going to have a bad event, sooner or later.
Lar.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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OH----------MY-------------GOD!!! You are SO right, Biglar.
PVC will NOT stand up to exposure to sunlight-----------this is a very bad idea.
People just don't seem to comprehend the dangers with IMPROPER propane use and plumbing------------it is VERY real!!!
Barry
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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NO Place !
As Biglar accurately describes, the "Problem" with using PVC pipe with gas, Natural or Propane, centers around the exposure of White PVC pipe exposed
to UV. Other than that, if properly assembled, the usage is fine. Where exposed to UV, painting is an option OR using the Gray PVC that "used" to be
called Schedule 80 for Outdoor Electrical service. Additionally, if you're in a state where it is still legal (the last I heard of was Colorado),
the "yellow" colored PVC available for gas is an option. I'm not sure about the degree of UV-protection it has.
Done properly, it works fine. I've got PVC Propane feeds that are over Ten- years old, buried and exposed. No problems. No leaks.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Bill-------------I have "gray PVC" that has been exposed to sun for several years and it has completely "sun-burned" and become brittle, tho it has
not broken yet--------it serves as a moisture drain for my "on roof AC unit", so no pressure is involved.
I am surprised that it can be used for Propane-------but if you say so. It would make me nervous, tho.
Thanks for the info.
Barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Additionally, if you're in a state where it is still legal (the last I heard of was Colorado), the "yellow" colored PVC available for gas is an
option. I'm not sure about the degree of UV-protection it has.
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Is that the CPVC, made for hot water use?
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 11-5-2002
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No
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Is that the CPVC, made for hot water use? |
CPVC is off-white.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Gas PVC
The PVC used for Gas was (is ?) a pale-yellow and was stencilled for Gas usage. For a "few"years" at most, it was available in California and I
bought some at Home Depot. At a later time, when I went to buy more, I was told it had been outlawed. I never verified that, but I haven't seen any
since.
As recently as two years ago, I was told by a friend and Colorado resident, that it was still available for purchase there.
As far as the Schd 80 Gray Electrical PVC weathering from UV, I can't say other than that I have some that's been installed for at least 5-6 years
outdoors and it looks fine. In any case, PAINT is the answer. As a general rule, I've always painted outdoor PVC to blend with the background and I
have some original water supply runs that are 27 years old.
A funny thing about that Gas Yellow PVC was that, when I originally looked at it and queried the Home Depot salesman, he told me it was a "special"
composition for gas. I then asked where the fittings and glue were located. "Oh, they just use the same ones as for the White PVC".
So much for special chemistry.
Doing a cursory search, I note that one utility (surprisingly in NY) lists PVC plastic pipe for gas supply usage as legal, but only outdoors.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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MrBill---------thanks mucho-----that is all useful information------especially the "painting" idea.
(duhhhhhh) 
Barry
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Russ
Elite Nomad
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PVC for gas! Scary. Even 15 years ago here they used copper and we had them put it in poly pipe and tape the joints to prevent corrosion. Now many use
a special simi-ridged tubing for gas.
I think it was cpvc that was outlawed for use in hot water lines.
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beercan
Senior Nomad
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Many of the major gas companies use Plastic ---
I know, I have had to dig around it many times in my Underground Utility Contractor daze. Properly installed PVC is safe and used in many locals. In
fact the main gas line for the City of Page Arizona ran across my property and I had to help the gas company relocate it because we were excavating
that end of our property and the finished grade was only 4" above their PLASTIC -6" line. I had to dig about 600 feet of trench adjacent to the line
for them to "relocate" the line.
[Edited on 2-6-2009 by beercan]
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* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
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Timo1
Senior Nomad
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Gas companies only use HDP
I've put in miles of it
Don't be misled by the PVC stories
Go copper , galvinized or HDP
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Bajajorge
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In the summer Baja sun just about nothing lasts that is openly exposed. Everything needs to be buried or covered. Those UV rays are murder. In San
Felipe the summer temps reach upwards of 120 for extended periods. Deterioration and destruction to anything exposed.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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CPVC
Is (or was unless that changed on 01 Jan) Legal and still sold in California. I bought CPVC and fittings at Ace Hardware last Fall.
However, in most cases, it is prohibited in housing by LOCAL building codes thanks to Union influence and scare tactics. It was (is ?) used commonly
in Mobile Homes subject to STATE code regulation and is, of course, used by others whenever they feel like it.
In the two instances where I use it in Baja for Hot Water, one is nearly Twenty years old. No problems.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Timo1
Go copper , galvinized or HDP |
I would never use galvanized for gas. The coating flakes off and clogs orifices. Black pipe is probably the easiest to find down here.
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Timo1
Senior Nomad
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Our house is galvinized from the outside throughout
We've never had a problem in 22 years and in Canada we
go thru a LOT of gas for water and heating
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Timo1
Our house is galvinized from the outside throughout
We've never had a problem in 22 years and in Canada we
go thru a LOT of gas for water and heating |
You use propane or NG? With NG there is less of a problem.
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Timo1
Senior Nomad
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Location: Homeless
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We are on NG
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Timo1
Gas companies only use HDP
I've put in miles of it
Don't be misled by the PVC stories
Go copper , galvinized or HDP |
What is HDP?
The houses I've had in the USA all had black pipe for gas, galvanized for water. I understood that was the code.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Galvanized in California
The reason that most houses are found with Black Pipe for Natural gas is: 1. It's cheaper and 2. Until some years back, Galvanized was not Legal
supposedly for the "Flaking Off" consideration. HOWEVER, that is no longer true and Galvanized is legal now in California.
Although I've only used Galvanized in Baja for the above-ground riser pipe and about 2-feet of the buried run on my Stationary Propane tank, it has
been there for about 7 years now with NO regulator or other problems.
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