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Bajahowodd
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Army Checkpoints
I have an observation and a question concerning our recent trip top to bottom and back. There have been other threads dealing with certain issues
concerning the checkpoints. I just want to go on record as saying that this trip found the most pleasant and even fun encounters with the military. We
had guys laughing and joking with us. One fellow even went through the CDs in our collection giving us his personal opinion of his likes and dislikes.
We offfered one in particular, but he refused to take it. On the other hand, personal sized bags of chips were a big hit. Here's my question: Can
anyone tell me the minimum age to join the military in Mexico? I ask because in almost every stop, it really appeared we were dealing with teens.
Sweet teens. That being said, we had to wonder as to the training these guys have received. To us, there seemed to be a disconnect between these
smiling young men, and their supposed need to be able to battle the hardened criminals of the cartels.
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bajalou
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Don't know the ages of the soldiers, but I can hear them practicing on the gun range, and using hand grenades so I expect they are proficient at doing
their job.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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postholedigger
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I ask because in almost every stop, it really appeared we were dealing with teens. Sweet teens. That being said, we had to wonder as to the training
these guys have received. To us, there seemed to be a disconnect between these smiling young men, and their supposed need to be able to battle the
hardened criminals of the cartels. |
They really are just kids and I don't even know if there is a disconnect between them being kids and being on the front line. I'm guessing they'd
react the same way any other teenager would when suddenly placed in the line of fire. I really feel for them.
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bajalou
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From Wikipedia
According to the CIA World Fact book, Mexico's available military manpower is 20,000,000 (males age 18-49, 2005 est.), with 19,058,337 males fit for
military service, and 1,063,233 males annually reaching military service age. Since 2000, women have been allowed to volunteer for military service.
Currently, Mexico's armed forces number some 620,400, including the reserves. Mexico's military is in two branches, the National Defense Secretariat
(Army and Air Force) and the Navy Secretariat (Navy, Naval Air Force, Marines).
So from that, seems like 18 is minimum age.
One thing I have to remember - The older I get, the younger they look.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
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They probably are kids. Conscripted kids at that. There's a lot of southern, indigenous blood on the front lines of the north. Used to be, probably
still is, a draftee from the south of Mexico was relocated to the farthest point from home, otherwise they would walk away and return to the strong
ties of family and loved ones. I don't know if this has changed but, one thing that hasn't is that only the poor are drafted and the south part of
the country has an excess of that.
I guess "Kids" would be an improper way to refer to young men of age who resemble the very youthful in our culture. I don't know.
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Bajahowodd
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I'm with you on that last sentence, Lou.
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I have an observation and a question concerning our recent trip top to bottom and back. There have been other threads dealing with certain issues
concerning the checkpoints. I just want to go on record as saying that this trip found the most pleasant and even fun encounters with the military. We
had guys laughing and joking with us. One fellow even went through the CDs in our collection giving us his personal opinion of his likes and dislikes.
We offfered one in particular, but he refused to take it. On the other hand, personal sized bags of chips were a big hit. Here's my question: Can
anyone tell me the minimum age to join the military in Mexico? I ask because in almost every stop, it really appeared we were dealing with teens.
Sweet teens. That being said, we had to wonder as to the training these guys have received. To us, there seemed to be a disconnect between these
smiling young men, and their supposed need to be able to battle the hardened criminals of the cartels. |
If you look I think you'll see an older officer among the younger guys. I've noticed that.
[Edited on 7-15-2009 by k-rico]
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Lee
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Join the military. See Mexico.
Last Winter, I expressed interest in wanting to meet and talk with military personnel in the Todos area. A MX friend arranged a meeting with the
Commandant of the Todos garrison, his XO, and a young soldier who was a teen.
I was told that teens join primarily for economic reasons. I liked these guys. Good people.
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BajaBruno
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I don't know if this has changed but, one thing that hasn't is that only the poor are drafted and the south part of the country has an excess of
that.
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It is not only the poor who are drafted, but you are still correct, because only the poor serve. In Mexico, if you are drafted, you can pay someone
else to take your place, which is why the more affluent are not standing out there in the middle of nowhere searching cars.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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Bajahowodd
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And that is substantially different from the volunteer service in the US? It's mostly poor folk looking for assistace in education and job training.
Maybe if we had a draft, political decisions would be different.
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MrBillM
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Different ? Really ?
Hm, Let me think................
The last time that we had a Draft ............. ?
Oh, yeah. Ho Chi Minh and all that Stuff.
That DID work out well.
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DENNIS
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It all makes me wonder what the literacy rate is in the Mexican military. I know my assumptions are far outdated.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
The last time that we had a Draft ............. ?
Oh, yeah. Ho Chi Minh and all that Stuff.
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What? We were at war in Garden Grove? I must have slept through that one.
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Bajahowodd
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The point is that with a draft, people other than poor folks had a stake in in and actually cared about it. for way too much of our society, Iraq is
off the radar, for better or worse. When it hits home, there is more participation in the political process. If there had been a draft at the time we
invaded Iraq, I sincerely doubt we'd still be there all these years later. And I invite anyone to demonstrate exactly how Mexico's draft system
operates to only discriminate in favor of the poor and uneducated.
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woody with a view
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every time we pass thru a checkpoint my wife has commented that "they're just children." "with automatic weapons!" i tell her...
we always have good conversations with one or the other while waiting to be searched....
VIVA LOS SOLDADOS!!!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And I invite anyone to demonstrate exactly how Mexico's draft system operates to only discriminate in favor of the poor and uneducated.
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I wouldn't say it openly operates by official policy to draft the poor and exclude the better off but, the system allows for substitutions. In the
past, perhaps still today, they had what amounted to weekly or monthly drills, similar to the Cal National Guard, to satisfy a military obligation
and substitutes were allowed....and expected.
Things have changed on the military front. G.I.s are much more in need today than they were twenty years ago. The numbers are met but the system
stays intact. Deferments are automatic and government supplied education is allowing many more to attend school into advanced years.
By default, if nothing else, the obligation to serve the country falls on the less privileged and an abundance of that group lives in the south of
Mexico.
I've lived here for around thirty years and have met a number of families with growing kids of all ages. I can't remember even one who has had any
military training what so ever. Well, there was one and he went to Mexico's Naval Acadamy.
Anyway, I can't offer damning evidence that the poor are singled out but, one would have to be blind not to see it.
By the way....being a commisioned officer in the Mexican military is one of the best jobs in the country.
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Alan
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Only kids? Just how old do you think our own military is?
When I look back through my old military photos I am amazed how young we all were. I was on a flight crew and the PPC (patrol plane commander) was
the Old Guy @ 24 
In Memory of E-57
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bajaguy
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Who are the recruits????
Interesting report on US military demographics:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.c...
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Pescador
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The point is that with a draft, people other than poor folks had a stake in in and actually cared about it. for way too much of our society, Iraq is
off the radar, for better or worse. When it hits home, there is more participation in the political process. If there had been a draft at the time we
invaded Iraq, I sincerely doubt we'd still be there all these years later. And I invite anyone to demonstrate exactly how Mexico's draft system
operates to only discriminate in favor of the poor and uneducated. |
You are assuming that your world view is accurate and you spend a lot of time trying to get things to match up with this view. The reality is that
the military has more people signing up than they can take and this is a direct result of the economy of mexico and they do not have a very active
recruiting of draft procedure.
We have a young man who we paid tuition and fees for from a small town and he just graduated from high school with very good grades. When he and
his cousin went to Mexico city to take the entrance exam they were slightly under the cutoff in one section of the exam and were rejected. They have
many more applications to join the military than they have available positions.
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MrBillM
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Locked and Loaded
"Children with Automatic Weapons".
In another discussion regarding those kids and their weapons, someone once said they'd heard that they don't have loaded magazines.
SURE. Anybody want to find out ?
I thought about that comment coming through the other day when I looked over at the kid with the Machine gun in the small redoubt at the end of the
checkpoint. Full-Belt loaded.
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