noproblemo2
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Ejido Land?
Does anyone know under what circumstances Ejido could lose/have taken from them their lands?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by noproblemo2
Does anyone know under what circumstances Ejido could lose/have taken from them their lands? |
Very few, if any, circunstances could exist. The Ejidos are the Sacred Cow of Mexico. Evidence of promised land reform and all that crap.
On the other hand, it's Mexico and money talks.
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toneart
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What Dennis says is true. However, in some locations an Ejido may not be entirely legitimate. They may have been awarded their land grants in more
recent times through negotiation, trade or grants given to them by local politicians who fall out of power. The consequent court cases can be messy.
Certainly nothing you want to be involved in. 
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noproblemo2
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What if one has gone rogue out of greed, been promised wealth to turn a blind eye to things going on around him, would that be reason for the provider
of said funds to take land? Or does any one ejido have the "power" to do so?
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by noproblemo2
What if one has gone rogue out of greed, been promised wealth to turn a blind eye to things going on around him, would that be reason for the provider
of said funds to take land? Or does any one ejido have the "power" to do so? |
Could you please restructure your sentences? It is difficult to decipher if the ejido is the victim or the perpetrator. Who is "one"?, one member of
an ejido, the whole ejido acting as one, or someone else?
Who is "provider of said funds to take land"?
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noproblemo2
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by noproblemo2
What if one has gone rogue out of greed, been promised wealth to turn a blind eye to things going on around him, would that be reason for the provider
of said funds to take land? Or does any one ejido have the "power" to do so? |
Could you please restructure your sentences? It is difficult to decipher if the ejido is the victim or the perpetrator. Who is "one"?, one member of
an ejido, the whole ejido acting as one, or someone else?
Who is "provider of said funds to take land"? |
Say a sr. member of ejido taking funds from a wealthy person to turn a blind eye & sr. ejido promising mr. wealth land.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by noproblemo2
Say a sr. member of ejido taking funds from a wealthy person to turn a blind eye & sr. ejido promising mr. wealth land. |
A blind eye to what? The ejido has control of the land. If a rico wants to use the land through bribes and gifts, his hold on the land is zero. An
ejido official can't transfer the land without going through proper steps...all legal. The buyer who didn't really make a legal purchase is the
loser.
Anyway, you have to be more explicit. Give us some details.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Anyway, you have to be more explicit. Give us some details. |
noproblemo2, I am sure there are reasons you are not being explicit, but it is beginning to sound like a giant riddle---a difficult one to figure
out?????
Diane
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ramuma53
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Well Nopproblema2
I think that I understand your question.
First if you talk about a Baja Ejido, almost all are wrongly done, they were born in the 1930 era, and at that time the SRA had very few recourses so
they invented the VIRTUAL EXECUTION, execution is the legal act where the lands are formally given to the Ejido and during that legal procedure, the
land has to be measured notifying all the affected people and the bordering neighbors, they all have to sign the approval or disapproval but since it
is extremely costly to do that for the extremely big Baja Ejidos, they just invented the virtual execution where an engineer just came from Mexico
city and in a couple of hours executed several ejidos.
By Supreme Court ruling, a virtual execution equals NO execution and if an ejido does not have an execution, it does not have any land; of course they
physically have it but not legally and just that fact may allow you to win against them if justice existed in Mexico.
What makes it difficult to win against an ejido is called SUPLENCIA DE LA DEFICIENCIA DE LA QUEJA and that means that the ejido can make as many
mistakes as they want and the judge have to correct it and offer as much proof as they need to win, but if you make a legal mistake you are gone; they
also do not have time deadlines but you do.
As a consequence, most Baja Ejidos are extremely corrupt institutions and what you are saying about making deals on the side is the rule more than the
exception.
Another misconception is that now they can sell their land, NO, they can now take the land out of Ejido regime and then they can sell it.
You will find that a senior Ejido guy is more apt to be the big chief in an Ejido if he make side deals than if he is honest.
All those rules were invented when Mexico was a lot more to the left than it is today but if you try to change those rules, all the peasants in Mexico
will come on top of you.
I you belong to a Baja Ejido, you have a lot of legal recourses but if you are a private proprietor, it is a dangerous endeavor to go against an
ejido, very few people can do it an win but it is happening more and more every day because they created a monster that liked those rules and now are
using them to steal land from private proprietors, just ask Mr. Johnson at hotel Serenidad in Mulege who has been fighting them for years.
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toneart
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What Ramuma53 says is true. The Serenidad is one of the examples that stands out. And that ejido is not done yet. I am still not sure though, if he or
anybody really understands Noproblema2's question.
A member of the Baja Ejido cannot sell his parcel unless the whole ejido vote their permission, collectively. But if you have handed over money and
then discovered you don't have anything legally, you can say "adios" to your money. You wouldn't be the first. On the other hand, I know many
wonderful people who are members of an ejido.
Ramuma53, you sound almost empathetic with Don Johnson.
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irenemm
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the same happened to Ellie at the brisa del mar rv park in cabo san lucas before it happened to don johnson. ellie rented the property and turned it
into something and was doing really good. when her lease was up the EJ wanted it back so they could make the money for them. long time ago back in the
80's they got the park and ellie lost i have never heard about the park since i am sure they turned it into a sh*& hole.
have not seen Ellie for many years now she would stop by in the 90's but not any more.
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rhintransit
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exactly that thing happened recently in Ensenada Blanca...see previous thread. I believe it was called something like 'land grab' or such. the ejido
lost to a wealth family that has had them in court for almost 20 years.
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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OLIGUACOMOLE
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To the Best of My Understanding
We get asked many times about the Ejido's. My wife is a Ejido member of La Purisma. It is the third largest Ejido in Mexico. For those wondering about
the approximate size of this Ejido, figure from the point of Bahia Conception to just south of San Jaunico to the top of Mag Bay to just south of the
military check point north of Loreto.
There are many different Ejidos in Mexico and . Traveling down the Mex. #1 you may notice signs beggining with the letter E, or EJ, or spelled out
completely Ejido. These designate Ejido area or are milage signs to an Ejido. Some have names and if the group could not arrive at a name they were
given a number.
After the Mexican revolution sometime in the 30's and more in the 70's land was awarded to mostly peasant Mexicans. The land was called Ejido lands.
It was added to the the Mexican Constitution that this land would be controlled by the Ejidos, the Mexican govt. will stay out of the affairs
concerning land issues of the Ejido. The Ejido were not allowed to sell this land, but could homestead and lease it with approval of the majority of
the members of the particular Ejido. This was done successfully by some Ejidos and not so by others. Many times contracts were not recognized by the
preceding president and conflicts ensued. Usually over money. Many times monies paid for leases were absconded by the present president and none was
divided among fellow members as promised, so it may seem to the body of Ejidos that leasees were getting something for nothing when if fact their
president just took the money.
Things are changing for the Ejido. Changing of the Mexican constitution concerning the Ejido makes it possible for the titling and selling of Ejido
land. First the Ejido needs to have a unanimous decision to divide the particular Ejido. Next the division has to be approved by the Mexican
government concluding that it will be done fairly. Next Ejido divides. Ejido La Purisma does theirs by a raffle. Parcels are surveyed prior your named
is called and you pick a number out of the box.
These lands will get a first time Mexican title. Since the lands are being divided fairly I feel this will eliminate the problems of the past.
Individual Ejido members can sell titled land getting cash. People buying can get title. Mexican Govt. and local municipalities can receive taxes. Now
that individual E. members are not being screwed, everybody is happy.
Traveling through the baja one can se the success with some of these Ejido's dividing the land. New houses, new vehicles and the men stick their
chests out a little farther and the women stand taller. Many of these people represent the true baja. Now with cash money coming from their land sales
these people will have more power. Remember the Beverly Hillbillies? It is kind of like that show. Some of these people and their children will
eventually become leaders of the community now that they have wealth.
On the other hand the Ejido have helped preserve the land. With people unwilling to invest on Ejido lands it has helped preserve huge natural areas.
The Mexican government has been less willing to improve Ejido lands with roads and electricity keeping many parts of Mexico natural for us to enjoy.
As an example nearly half of Bahia Conception beach front has been sold. Each lot is 100 meters beach by 1 kilometer. Nearly all this land has been
purchased by buyers from Mexico City, Guadalajara, and Cabo San Lucas area. Lets hope for the best!
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Geo_Skip
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Thanks OLIGUACOMOLE for a readable and rational summary. Sadly some stuff posted above was in language intended to obscure more than reveal.
Gracias.
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wilderone
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I would assume the original question pertained to Baja ejido land. Ejidos are all over Mexico, of course. In Chiapas the military has forcibly
occupied ejido land and forced out the occupants - done as an element of government takeover in conjunction with US multinationals who want the oil
lands. These poor indigenous have little to fight with, and have lost many lives (Acteal), and what little success they have achieved came with the
support of worldwide sympathizers. The indigenous south of Cancun suffered many of the same consequences when the government took their land for
developers. This scenario hasn't played out in Baja to this extreme - but certainly could. Rather, the developers who want the land just use thugs
to force people out, stir up lawsuits and muddy titles - some fraudulent. In any event, because of the obscurity of ejido land titles, the lack of
precedent over such land transfers, and the potential for nefarious characters to be involved, the possibility (and probability) of ejido land
skirmishes are certain.
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tripledigitken
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I'll try again after another cup of coffee.
Ken
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
I'll try again after another cup of coffee.
Ken |
And once you have got it figured out, please post it in simple bullet points----that I might be able to follow. 
Diane
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