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BajaNuts
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Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
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Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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running a business as a non-Mexican Q & (hopefully) A
After the very informative recent topic on Mexican labor laws, it was proposed to start a topic about doing business in Mexico. Specifically, I'd
like to focus on non-Mexicans doing business in Mexico.
I'd like to start with this question-
there are a 1001 plumbers/electricians in Baja. Judging from posts and stories here and elsewhere, there is room for improvement. I can do a better
job than what they are doing, so I start a corporation, hit up a few gringo-focused developers/builders and go to work. For the sake of
simplicity...no employees.
Tell me how badly I am at risk of lawsuits from someone claiming I'm taking a job away from a Mexican, who cannot do it to the standards I can. I
know there's the business tax reporting and all that, but has anyone ever heard of such a thing? It may seem like trying to sell ice to Eskimo's, but
if the quality of work isn't there, and someone can do a better job....
Anyone else with "operating a business" type questions or info, feel free to post. Also any gringo-owned businesses who'd like to share their
stories...good and bad....
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osoflojo
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I cant speak to the state of getting Immigration working papers today but when I had my buisness the most important tenants were:
1. The way your Articles of Construction were written to justify that you could actually work for your corporation and
2. The ratio of the number of extrenjeros vs Mexicans that worked for the Corp.
I would recomend getting the smartest, most experianced Accountant you can find to properly write and present to a "friendly" Notary your Articles of
Construction.
Just as all Immigration offices have different ways of looking at the FM-3 process granting working parers is looked at even more carefully. Buenas
Suerte.
P.S. Do not think for one nanosecond that "who can do the best job" will ever enter into any of this process.
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BajaNuts
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Posts: 1085
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Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
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Thanks, osoflojo,
care to share what you did, for how long and why you quit?
Why is the ratio of extrenjeros v Mexican's important, I was planning on being the "one-man shop" . Actually, it would be two with hubby and me. No
employees.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNuts
Tell me how badly I am at risk of lawsuits from someone claiming I'm taking a job away from a Mexican, who cannot do it to the standards I can.
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Your expertise would be a subjective evaluation not shared by anyone.
I'm not sure that you could get an FM3/Plumber without having commitments of employment for an established firm. I don't believe you can.
You could start a plumbing firm with all the requisite licenses and partnerships and paperwork but, that would be a lot to go through just to change
toilets, not to mention what you now know about hiring workers for your new business.
The mere thought of it would give me nightmares.
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Skeet/Loreto
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First:
Contact a good Notoria in La Paz/TJ.
Second:
have them set up a mexican Corp.
Third:
Get a good Local Accountant
Make sure you file all Accounting Reports
Go to work/ be Honest and open and help out some of your Mexican Friends that are in Need.
The word will spread, you will be treated fairly.
Skeet
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Pescador
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Location: Baja California Sur
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The first issue that is very difficult for a lot of people to understand is that Mexico, for the most part, is not run by the principles of "Free
Enterprise" and that goes a long ways toward explaining why the country is not further along economically than it is. So, it is irrelevant that you
might be a more effective and higher quality plumber, because they would never allow you to get to step one. Unlike the US with very open borders ,
even though they say differently, Mexico is very protectionistic about their workforce and unless you can show that you are going to be training
mexican workers to do more effective plumbing, or some company has need of your specific services, chances are slim and none that you would ever be
able to get permission to do that type of business in the first place. And even if you managed to spend a lot of money in all the right places and
get permission to actually work, it is up for yearly review and all you need is one complaint from a Mexican plumber who is upset with you and your
business to find yourself shut down. The protectionism runs through all levels of government as well as the population.
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BajaNuts
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Actually, we're sparkies, not turd-chasers
"Consultant" is always a vague enough job description.
It's amazing the lack of motivation the culture spawns. There is no incentive to do better than the next guy.
We could definitely train a worker, but then it's back to the old employee hassle.
I KNOW- the consultant angle would work in that we could consult with homeowners who are building their own house. BigWooo, want our number?
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Dave
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Are you willing to work for Mexican wages?
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNuts
I can do a better job than what they are doing, so I start a corporation, hit up a few gringo-focused developers/builders and go to work. For the
sake of simplicity...no employees.
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Why would a contractor use your services when he could hire Mexican labor at 1/4 the cost, or less? That you do a better job... so what? He could have
his Mexican plumber/electrician redo a job 3 times and still come out ahead.
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BajaNuts
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I would think that eventually the builder/contractor would get tired of all the hassles of shoddy work and shoddy work ethics and maybe there is a
quality builder out there who would like someone to do it right the FIRST TIME!
Or do all the contractors have the same "whatever" attitude as workers are portrayed to have? Are they all in the same mindset?
We faced a similar situation when we first moved to where we live now. Many other electrical shops, but the quality of work was ghastly. It took a
while, but eventually we connected with some builders who appreciate quality....not just the cheap price others would charge.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNuts
Or do all the contractors have the same "whatever" attitude as workers are portrayed to have? Are they all in the same mindset?
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I would guess that most contractors, if not all, were once workers. And, after learning of all the illogical labor laws on the books, the question
arises, "Who works for whom?"
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osoflojo
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Everyone here gives a good prospective on this, but the bottom line is that even the best " constructed " corp will do you no good if La Migra will
not give you working papers to work for it. It may be worth the expense and hassel to hire an immigration consultant that can explore any "special
circumstances "in your area.
You asked what I did, I had a shop on the Marina of CSL that before cell phones had long distance phone service, a liquor license, laundramat and
message center. A whole bunch of different thing conspired to create the perfect storm to close up shop. Again best of luck.
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JESSE
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I know a smart gringo who got around all of this.
He hired plumbers and electricians from Tijuana and Mexico city. Moved them to La Paz. Hes the boss-supervisor, employs Mexicans, does good work,
charges twice the locals, and many people like myself hire him all the time.
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Phil S
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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In BCS for over seven years, I worked with (hired) plumbers, electricians, painters, landscapers, roofers, plasterers and cement folks. All really
good hard working (by Mexican standards)citizens. suppporting their families.
I have a really hard time with folks who want to come down & "do it better". To have the "good life". Personally I think it 'stinks'. MHO.
Yes they 'do it differently' than we do it in the states. But look how long they have been doing it, and no one is worse for that fact. Yes. If you
were there to watch a house being built every day, you'd have numerous heart attacks by completion. Especially the one that comes when the home did'nt
get finished on time by six months average. But most of their homes are still standing today. The owners living in them are happy. Why would you
want to give up your "eastern oregon" practice to come down, and 'show them how it's done???? And for a lot less money, and a ton of frustration with
'their paperwork.' For nineteen winters, I lived down there, and made many friends during that time. Some will be for a lifetime.
I think you'd maybe make more money if you were selling timeshares at the Loreto airport!!!!!!! And non of this is intended as a 'put down'. Just
how I see it.
[Edited on 7-31-2009 by Phil S]
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shari
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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from reading some of the info...it seems like many companies create a "sheild" type company to hire workers to prevent profit sharing...the bogus
company doesnt make a profit...hmmm..sounds plausible.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
from reading some of the info...it seems like many companies create a "sheild" type company to hire workers to prevent profit sharing...the bogus
company doesnt make a profit...hmmm..sounds plausible. |
Trust me shari, it doesn´t work. It used to be the practice a few years back, but not anymore. My lawyer specializes in business law, and he takes
down "shields" like this one all the time. The judge doesn´t determine the "source of the job" or fuente de trabajo based on what a paper says
anymore.
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MitchMan
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Is there a problem with several Americans getting together to form a partnership (not a corporation), split the expenses and revenues and do all the
work themselves and not hire any Mexican employees? Some businesses that come to mind are construction and related services, real estate sales
assistance and brokerage, real estate and construction administrative consulting & facilitation, bookkeeping services (great feeder business),
residential property management, etc.?
I suppose the question is whether or not any of these above-mentioned businesses would be easily allowed when trying to acquire the requisite
permissions and work permits, in view of the fact that truthfull filings would not indicate the future hiring of Mexican employees.
Based on the preceding posts, it sounds like it may be impossible to get the work permits.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Is there a problem with several Americans getting together to form a partnership (not a corporation), split the expenses and revenues and do all the
work themselves and not hire any Mexican employees? |
Its not going to happen.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
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I don't think you're legally going to get around the rule "Foreigners can do no work (paid or not) on any property but their own."
But, keep on skeaming, the great pastime for those from NOB.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Woooosh
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Is there a problem with several Americans getting together to form a partnership (not a corporation), split the expenses and revenues and do all the
work themselves and not hire any Mexican employees? Some businesses that come to mind are construction and related services, real estate sales
assistance and brokerage, real estate and construction administrative consulting & facilitation, bookkeeping services (great feeder business),
residential property management, etc.?
I suppose the question is whether or not any of these above-mentioned businesses would be easily allowed when trying to acquire the requisite
permissions and work permits, in view of the fact that truthfull filings would not indicate the future hiring of Mexican employees.
Based on the preceding posts, it sounds like it may be impossible to get the work permits. |
There are thousands of Americans living in baja norte (most without FM3's too) that would hire a fellow american tradesman to get the correct job done
right the first time. Look at the million dollar homes in Puerto Nuevo for example. Just start doing the work you do- do it well and and ask for
them to tell their friends. You won't make a living at it- but you will make more money than the local guys hanging out with signs on their trucks on
the blvd.
The previous posts are accurate- but why be the only one in this place that plays by the rules? And of course everyone who makes money down here
reports it ALL as US income, as required under the IRS rules... right?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
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Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Is there a problem with several Americans getting together to form a partnership (not a corporation), split the expenses and revenues and do all the
work themselves and not hire any Mexican employees? |
Its not going to happen. |
Jesse-
can you clarify? Do you mean government would never allow it or that partnerships rarely ever work out? or both?
"And of course everyone who makes money down here reports it ALL as US income, as required under the IRS rules... right?" RIIIIIIIIIIIGGGHHHT!
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