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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Hola Bob and Susan,
One of these days I will visit you guys to check out your solar system,heard a lot about it..
I know I can not leave a vehicle unless I have an FM3, but where is it written I can not leave personal possessions in a private residence, just turn
me on to the Mexican Gov. site that states what you say...please
Hola Lou,
I stand by my last post, if the powers to be in DF said it was OK then it's OK by me...maybe some of these guys in San Felipe are "helping foreigners
" with FM3 paperwork...for a small or large fee...
I hear the whales song
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
Hola Lou,
I stand by my last post, if the powers to be in DF said it was OK then it's OK by me...maybe some of these guys in San Felipe are "helping foreigners
" with FM3 paperwork...for a small or large fee... |
Not true.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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squid
Junior Nomad
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-23-2009
Location: Mulege
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
Senor Squid,
Can't find a gov. site that proves you correct, I did not think so....Sorry you will not post anymore, no more miss-information from you...Adios
O.K., one more time for you in particular as you seem to be a lill 'slow'
and in genaral for all others:
Does anybody believe one can trust a notary public just b/c he is gov. approved??
B/S # 1 Think again.
Does anybody believe one can trust a lawyer just b/c he is a lawyer??
B/S # 2 Think again.
Does anybody belive he got a fideicomiso and in ANY case it is approved in Mexico DF??
B/S # 3 Thinka again.
There are plenty of cases where the fideicomiso money/fee is taken and ended up in the pockets of the banker.
There are plenty of cases where notary's do something without being lawful.
There are plenty of cases where lawyers do something and just get your money for something unlawful.
Governmentsite?????????????????????????????????????????
The same law is different in La Paz than in Tijuana >>>>>> don't you know? And on the mainland there is the exact same law with a
complete different interpretion.
So what B/S are you talking about?
Get rid of your "Gringo-Thinking" , amigo , this is Mexico!
So far from God, but so close to America! |
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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I'm just wondering, can you show me where it says you can leave a vehicle in Mexico - outside the "Frontera" areas - when you have a FM3?
It's not what the Customs people have told me when I've traveled to Mainland Mexico. If I leave it, it has to be in a customs bonded storage, not at
a private residence. Unless I have done a full importation and paid the duties and it is now registered in Mexico.
[Edited on 8-9-2009 by bajalou]
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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| Quote: | Originally posted by squid
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
Senor Squid,
Can't find a gov. site that proves you correct, I did not think so....Sorry you will not post anymore, no more miss-information from you...Adios
O.K., one more time for you in particular as you seem to be a lill 'slow'
and in genaral for all others:
Does anybody believe one can trust a notary public just b/c he is gov. approved??
B/S # 1 Think again.
Does anybody believe one can trust a lawyer just b/c he is a lawyer??
B/S # 2 Think again.
Does anybody belive he got a fideicomiso and in ANY case it is approved in Mexico DF??
B/S # 3 Thinka again.
There are plenty of cases where the fideicomiso money/fee is taken and ended up in the pockets of the banker.
There are plenty of cases where notary's do something without being lawful.
There are plenty of cases where lawyers do something and just get your money for something unlawful.
Governmentsite?????????????????????????????????????????
The same law is different in La Paz than in Tijuana >>>>>> don't you know? And on the mainland there is the exact same law with a
complete different interpretion.
So what B/S are you talking about?
Get rid of your "Gringo-Thinking" , amigo , this is Mexico!
So far from God, but so close to America! |
Squidly you lied, you were never going to post again, but since you did all you gotta do is show me an official site where what you say is true...And
what makes you think I am a gringo? Your profile seems kinda empty...can't you just except you are wrong, you can't prove what you stated...que
lastima |
I hear the whales song
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Hola bajalou, Article 106 covers this rule:
www.sre.gob.mx/english/
Lou, I hope squidly does not think I made up this site...hope this amswers your last post question, Rick
The holder of an FM-3 visitor visa, regardless of his or her migratory status, has the right to import a vehicle, in accordance with the provisions of
the Mexican customs law.
Article 106, paragraph IV, section a) of the Mexican Customs Law reads that foreigners holding a Non-Immigrant migratory status (student, pensioner,
business person, technician, etc.; except refugees and political refugees) will be allowed the temporary import of a single vehicle; in conformity
with the precept cited, Article 42 of the General Population Act describes the migratory status of Non-Immigrant Visitor, which can be extended for up
to four equal periods of time and allows multiple entries and exits. These extensions will in turn extend the legal stay of the temporarily imported
vehicle on national territory, in accordance with Regulation 3.2.6 of the 2004 General Regulations on Foreign Trade Matters [Reglas de Carácter
General en Materia de Comercio Exterior] stating that for those whose migratory status has been extended in accordance with the law, the validity of
the temporary import permit issued for the corresponding vehicle is automatically prolonged for the same amount of time. The official document that
extends the importer's stay in the country also stands as proof of the legal stay of the vehicle.
I hear the whales song
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jannyk
Newbie
Posts: 21
Registered: 1-5-2008
Location: SF Bay Area/Vancouver Island/BOLA
Member Is Offline
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This statement by you is just not true.
We have bought and sold 2 properties (one at Club La Costa, SJD and one in Bahia Kino, Sonora), both were fideo'd.
At no point during the buying, applying for the fideo, setting up the trust, bank account to administer them, ownership, sale or payment of any taxes
(including final 'sales/profit tax'), was any kind of 'upgraded visa' required.
To be honest, the only identifier ever used, in any of these transactions, were apostilled copies of our passports.
Should it be done? Maybe not, I really don't know, I'm not here to give advice. But to say it cannot be done is just BS - because we've actually done
it - twice!
| Quote: | Originally posted by squid
well, too many smart a... here ! They do have a fideicomiso !!!!!!!!!!!!
They got it through a bank - no other way!
BUT nobody can get a bankaccount OR A FIDEICOMISO without FM-3.
Gringos always know everything better about mexico than Mexicans.
No more posts from me on this thread. Period. |
[Edited on 8-9-2009 by jannyk]
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Originally posted by squid
well, too many smart a... here ! They do have a fideicomiso !!!!!!!!!!!!
They got it through a bank - no other way!
BUT nobody can get a bankaccount OR A FIDEICOMISO without FM-3.
Gringos always know everything better about mexico than Mexicans.
No more posts from me on this thread. Period.
Hi squidly, just to let you know last week some banking rules changed, you do not need an FM3 to open an account anymore, as a matter of fact I could
walk into my local Citibank in the USA and open a checking or savings account at a Banamex anywhere in Mexico through their Global Services for expats
division...how bout that...maybe you could change your nickname to
MISS INFOMATION !!!
I hear the whales song
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by squid
First of all: As a homeowner you MUST have an FM-3.
If you don't have one and INM gets the message, your house can be confiscated. But also a big fine might do it. Depends on the INM guy dealing your
matter.
Some folks (homeowners) think as they are coming down here just for some weeks (less than 180 days), they don't need a FM-3, FMT is good enough. Think
twice!
As a homeownre w/ fideocomiso you can apply for an FM-2 right away. That gives you a lot of protection in Mexico. |
I'd like to know of one instance where INM confiscated someone's house for the lack of an FM3.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I sure wonder how you can call a "tourist" (fm-t) also a property owner!
Tourists are people on a vacation... Is it really that hard to understand?
Sure, someone will take your money and sell you something... Does that mean you are LEGAL and protected by Mexican law??? Of course not....
Bajalou, Bob & Susan, BajaRob, ... are just some of the Nomads who are friends of mine who bothered to do the legal and right thing in getting the
correct visa and not just hope they don't get caught!
Please try and give GOOD advice here and still have a good time in Mexico!
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Not sure about the law, as I can not read the Law as it is not in English.
I would only offer this, on any real estate transaction, you as the buyer should conduct as much "due diligence" as possible on the "site"
This is true no matter where the "property" is located... the collapse of the real estate in the United States is a result of the lack of "due
diligence" on the lenders and the buyers.
But, back to the subject of this thread, legal documentation the requirements of ownership...
Please follow the link, http://www.mexicomatters.net/mexicorealestate/04a_fideicomis... it at least references the LAW by article and section in Mexico and/or Baja on
these issue. I however can not substantiate the translation, but, overall it would appear that the "intent" was to allow American's to come down to
the Baja, and buy and live in property.
The obvious benefits to all was the reason it was changed back in 1971... used to go down to La Mision in 1960-69. Not sure but I think the law was
again changed in 1991 to allow for 50 year lease on the land, as it used to be 30 years, with automatic renewal...
I not up to speed on the Mexican Law on owing a home, have just started looking at the area once again.
I recall Mexico with found memories and would like to go back down for the last few years and once again enjoy the people and the country
Thanks for all the food for thought... I tend to go with Bajagrouper, for practical reasons, if the Mexican Government started repossessing personal
property in the Baja from foreign home owners, what do you think would happen to the market short and long
term.http://forums.bajanomad.com/images/smilies/saint.gif
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I sure wonder how you can call a "tourist" (fm-t) also a property owner!
Tourists are people on a vacation... Is it really that hard to understand?
Sure, someone will take your money and sell you something... Does that mean you are LEGAL and protected by Mexican law??? Of course not....
Bajalou, Bob & Susan, BajaRob, ... are just some of the Nomads who are friends of mine who bothered to do the legal and right thing in getting the
correct visa and not just hope they don't get caught!
Please try and give GOOD advice here and still have a good time in Mexico! |
DK-not taking sides here but I do know that people own "vacation homes" and thus your logic doesn't quite work. I think I know what you were
implying, though.
Zac
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1499
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
Member Is Offline
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My wife and I are just completing the fideo process on some property in BoLA, we are useing Angel Saad Said, notario #4 in Enenada. During the process
we were told to come down and sign some papers and that we should be sure to have our visas with us. I asked about an fm3 and was told by Angel that
either an fm3 of an fmt would work, we just needed to be in Mex legally to sign the papers, and that included the seller also he had to be in the
country legally also. Tomorrow we go to the consulate in San Diego and they want to see our fideo papers before they will issue an fm3.
If it is true that you have to have an fm3 first then it would be like a "catch 22" since the San Diego consulate requires the fideo (or a rental
agreement) before they will issue a fm3. Here is a link to their site:
http://consulmexsd.org/doc/non-mexican/fm3.htm
I really have no idea what the actual laws are but this is the process that our attourney lead us through, and after more than a year it seems to be
working.
Larry
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SDRonni
Nomad
Posts: 481
Registered: 8-28-2006
Location: Serra Mesa/Rosarito
Member Is Offline
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We got our FM-3 at the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. We did not have to have a copy of our fide (as we don't have it yet), but did have to provide
a copy of the contract to purchase the property.....
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1499
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
Member Is Offline
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We are going in tomorrow and we don't have the fideo papers in hand yet but we will take some rental papers that we have for another property and see
if that works. I am well aware that what they put on their website and what happens in real life are probably worlds apart. I'll post tomorrow
afternoon about what happens.
Larry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I sure wonder how you can call a "tourist" (fm-t) also a property owner!
Tourists are people on a vacation... Is it really that hard to understand?
Sure, someone will take your money and sell you something... Does that mean you are LEGAL and protected by Mexican law??? Of course not....
Bajalou, Bob & Susan, BajaRob, ... are just some of the Nomads who are friends of mine who bothered to do the legal and right thing in getting the
correct visa and not just hope they don't get caught!
Please try and give GOOD advice here and still have a good time in Mexico! |
DK-not taking sides here but I do know that people own "vacation homes" and thus your logic doesn't quite work. I think I know what you were
implying, though.
Zac |
Just to be sure... here is the way I see it logically: TOURISTS are people on a vacation... staying a short time in one or more places each trip.
A VACATION HOME is REAL ESTATE property that is in the same place and doesn't travel.
IF you BUY a home in Mexico, then you are holding REAL property that stays in Mexico when you go back home. That means you will be going back to that
same home over and over... You then are a PART TIME RESIDENT in Mexico, and not JUST a tourist seeing the country, on a vacation.
I can understand that many Americans have bought property in Baja with or without an FM-T... What I find fascinating is how they will argue the point
and they don't worry about losing their investment???
What is an FM-3 for if only a FM-T is okay??? Obviously, there is an FM-3 because an FM-T isn't enough... to buy and keep property in Mexico, to work
in Mexico, to stay more than 6 months a year, etc.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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To get an FM-3, you have to show proof of residence in your name with an address...a phone bill, a water bill, a rent receipt or a contract to
purchase......when you get "issued" the FM-3, you then have to "register" it with Immigrationin the Immigration "jurisdiction" where you will be
living or have your property.
So, it seems that you can "buy" and sign documents for property on an FM-T which shows that you are in the country legally at that time (as a
tourist), but should have an F-3 after you sign those docments and have a "residence" or property in Mexico........
Common sense would indicate that if you have a "residence" or property in Mexico....even though you use it for your 2 week vacation, or 6 month
vacation, you are not a "tourist", but a "resident".
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
To get an FM-3, you have to show proof of residence in your name with an address...a phone bill, a water bill, a rent receipt or a contract to
purchase......when you get "issued" the FM-3, you then have to "register" it with Immigrationin the Immigration "jurisdiction" where you will be
living or have your property.
So, it seems that you can "buy" and sign documents for property on an FM-T which shows that you are in the country legally at that time (as a
tourist), but should have an F-3 after you sign those docments and have a "residence" or property in Mexico........
Common sense would indicate that if you have a "residence" or property in Mexico....even though you use it for your 2 week vacation, or 6 month
vacation, you are not a "tourist", but a "resident". |
An excellent summation of my understanding of the situation.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Believe this discussion is about two separate legal issues:
1. Legal status of the foreigner in Mexico (classification by Mexican and/or American Agency's) based on information provided by the foreigner and/or
American to an Agency.
2. Legal ability of a foreigner to own property (in this case a area which has been defined in law by the Mexican Government.
You will be a foreigner while you are in Mexico, you can not become a Citizen of Mexico, unless both of your parents were born in Mexico and have not
let there citizenship laps before March 20,1998.
You can however own property under the varying classifications of Visa and under current Mexican law.. again, the intent must be considered when
making interpretations on legal issues, nothing ever is cut and dried, with law and the enforcement of same.
If one thinks of what, in most cases is the bases of these laws and regulations, then it all starts to make sense..... they need to be able to TAX to
make money, both here and in Mexico.
It's just in Mexico, they don't have the same "social network" that we have in the U.S. thus taxes are much lower in the Baja, for now.
One thing you can count on, when money gets short.... governments start looking, but I don't have the same degree of concern over property issues in
Mexico as I would in the United States.. the Federal Government lost a case in MT. A property own run a census taker off his property with a shotgun,
as the census taker was on his front porch with a GPS noting his exact position within the United States...
Don't think it's even close to this down in the Baja... at least I hope not.
Coming down in Sept. and can hardly wait...
All this other stuff goes away when down there
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Oggie
Nomad
Posts: 312
Registered: 6-16-2009
Location: Carlsbad, CA/BOLA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing Baja
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Which visa applys to renting property in Baja. I can see where an FM-3 would be more convienient than an FM-T. It is valid for a year so you would not
have to stop and purchase the FM-T everytime you cross into Baja. Does the leaving of personal property, in mexico, require obtaining an FM-3 ?
[Edited on 8-9-2009 by Oggie]
[Edited on 8-9-2009 by Oggie]
A man never stands as tall as when he kneels to help a child.
Knights of Pythagoras
Funny how falling feels like flying
for a little while - Bad Blake
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