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MrBillM
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Bye Bye Bangladesh ?
Don't get me wrong.
If it wasn't for Bangladesh, I wouldn't own half of the clothes that I do.
Well, Maybe I would, but they'd be from India or China.
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David K
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Sea level is a world wide point of reference. The sea level can't be rising in Bangladesh and not also be rising in the Sea of Cortez... and it has
not risen in the Sea of Cortez in 40 years of my going to the same sea shore locations.
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Cypress
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Increased temps.= increased evaporation. Sorta balances out. The deserts remain deserts, the oceans remain oceans, and anyone buying carbon credits
from Albert Gore remains stupid.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sea level is a world wide point of reference. The sea level can't be rising in Bangladesh and not also be rising in the Sea of Cortez... and it has
not risen in the Sea of Cortez in 40 years of my going to the same sea shore locations. |
dk,
many flat-earthers, evangalists, ExxonMobil PR dept and Dick Cheney agree that sea level has been rising at 2 mm/year. what is your method for
documenting that SL has not changed in 40 years in SOC? what is the precision and accuracy of your method of measuring SL?
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sea level is a world wide point of reference. The sea level can't be rising in Bangladesh and not also be rising in the Sea of Cortez... and it has
not risen in the Sea of Cortez in 40 years of my going to the same sea shore locations. |
dk,
many flat-earthers, evangalists, ExxonMobil PR dept and Dick Cheney agree that sea level has been rising at 2 mm/year. what is your method for
documenting that SL has not changed in 40 years in SOC? what is the precision and accuracy of your method of measuring SL? |
OBSERVATION...  Beats reading about it, that somebody else wrote, everytime.
I am sure there are minor changes over the years... but the same locations (at sea level) are still there, 40-50 years later... I am talking about
structures, roads, things that don't just 'move' if the ocean gets higher. I grew up on the beach in Del Mar (1957-1964) and my street is still above
water... the home is different and the El Niño storms 30 years ago took away the sand, but the lot it was built on is still the same distance above
sea level.
The old road along Concepcion Bay as well as the homes built in the 70's on the shore is still there. El Requeson island is still connected at low
tide...
Okay, I answered your question... Now, answer me why you feel the need to believe the hysteria that we are causing the world to end, that inspite of
the obvious that sea levels are not rising you believe those who tell you otherwise? That one year the polar ice cap is smaller than usual but another
year it grows bigger than before...? Why don't you trust Nature to continue to do fine and that man is a natural part of this planet? That without
carbon dioxide, recently labled a "pollutant", trees and plants will die...?
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sea level is a world wide point of reference. The sea level can't be rising in Bangladesh and not also be rising in the Sea of Cortez... and it has
not risen in the Sea of Cortez in 40 years of my going to the same sea shore locations. |
Not true David.
Sea level is at different level on the Atlantic than it is on the Pacific. Heck, even the Atlantic and Pacific are at different levels on their north
and south ends. If we could cut a real "sea level" canal across Panama the 20 cm (~8 inch) difference between the two would cause the Pacific to flow
into the Atlantic..
Of course, this assumes they are on the same tide schedule, which they are not. So in this imaginary scenario, sometimes the water would flow the
other direction and sometimes the sea level difference would be much greater than 20cm, resulting in faster flows.
Don't forget that the saltiness between the Atlantic and Pacific are different too. There is no constant on the planet; be it sea level, temperature,
or water chemistry.
| Quote: | It can be seen that MSL (the local height of the MSS above the geoid) is a complicated quantity, which depends not only on the volume of water in the
oceans, and the shape of the ocean basins, but also on the earth's gravitational field and rotation rate (which determine the shape of the geoid), and
on patterns of currents within the oceans. The importance of the differences between these different surfaces depends on the scientific application.
But it will also be realised that, because of ocean, climate and geological changes, MSL is not constant in time, its 'mean value' being determined
only for a particular epoch.
------------------------------
Global-average sea level is believed to have risen by between 10-20 cm during the past century and best estimates
are that it will rise by approximately 50 cm in the next 100 years (i.e. an acceleration of a factor of 3 in the rate). Rising sea levels are largely
a consequence of the thermal expansion of the ocean, melting of low latitude glaciers (Alps, Rockies etc.) and many other factors.
---------------------------
Are long term changes in sea level the same everywhere?
No. Long term changes in sea level measured at the coast (e.g. by tide gauges) are a consequence of 'real' changes in the level of the ocean (e.g. due
to climate change), to which must be added changes in the level of the land.
Changes in ocean level due to climate change can be greater in some places than others because the ocean circulation will adapt to accommodate the new
climate regime. Most knowledge of the global pattern of vertical land movements comes from geological data which are included in geodynamic models of
the Earth.
The main geological process involved is called Glacial Isostatic Adjustment (GIA). For example, in the UK, GIA results in sea level rising less
rapidly in Scotland than in southern England. However, there are other geological processes, violent changes due to earthquakes being the most
dramatic. Land level changes are now being investigated by geodetic research groups using the Global Positioning System and Absolute Gravity
techniques.
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Link
[Edited on 8-31-2009 by Taco de Baja]
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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David K
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Hi Taco... I didn't say it was the exact same around the world... Only that it is a worldwide "point of reference", i.e. that elevation is based on
feet or meters 'above sea level'... correct?
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Taco de Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Hi Taco... I didn't say it was the exact same around the world... Only that it is a worldwide "point of reference", i.e. that elevation is based on
feet or meters 'above sea level'... correct? |
My point was that the concept of a "global mean sea level" is as wrong and unscientific as "global mean temperature."
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Pompano
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My little girl asked, "Daddy, what makes the ocean?"
I went to the bookcase and showed her this page from an old high school book.
Looking at that for a moment, she said, "Can we get a polar bear?"
I looked out the window at the Baja ocean, then back at Al Gore on CNN, and sighed, "Soon, sweetheart..soon."
.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
I looked out the window at the Baja ocean, then back at Al Gore on CNN, and sighed, "Soon, sweetheart..soon."
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Aw come on, Roger. If it wasn't for Al Gore we'd be sendmg letters to one another instead of this.
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MrBillM
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What's the Point ? We're ALL Doomed !
We don't need to worry about an Ocean level rise of 2mm per year.
Far more important, and out of our control, the MOON is moving farther away from the Earth and it is predicted that the loss of its Gravitational
influence will have catastrophic effects on the earth and DOOM the Human race to extinction.
It's moving away at the BREATH-TAKING rate of 1.5 Inches per year. It is said that we could be in real trouble a few hundred
thousand years from now.
NOW, that's got me worried.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Hi Taco... I didn't say it was the exact same around the world... Only that it is a worldwide "point of reference", i.e. that elevation is based on
feet or meters 'above sea level'... correct? |
There is not one worldwide point of reference for sea level. Everybody uses their own reference datum point. It is not meaningful to point to a place
on the land to show that sea levels have not risen. The earth's crust is elastic and it rises and subsides constantly. A case in point: New Orleans is
now 4 feet below sea level. It was above sea level when it was founded 300 years ago. The sea levels have not risen over 4 feet in 300 years. The land
under New Orleans has subsided.
Another case in point, they are always finding whale bones around San Diego when they start excavating for new construction. So the sea levels must
have been much higher in the past. One could then say that sea levels are falling.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Cypress
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In any event we're talking about changes that took place over hundreds, thousands and hudreds of thousands of years. The land subsides, the sea rises,
the land is uplifted, the sea level falls. Ice Ages. Warm periods. These things took place long before humans or humans even dreamed of fossil fuels
etc.
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wessongroup
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Your right
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
In any event we're talking about changes that took place over hundreds, thousands and hudreds of thousands of years. The land subsides, the sea rises,
the land is uplifted, the sea level falls. Ice Ages. Warm periods. These things took place long before humans or humans even dreamed of fossil fuels
etc. |
Only difference this time, is about 6 billion and counting
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Cypress
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Six billion? That's a lot. The rise in temps might well be the result of cement, steel and bare ground replacing living trees, grass, and
wetlands.
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MrBillM
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Six B and Counting (Downward) ?
Well, if we assume that the most horrific predictions of the Eco-Freaks come true, we can put a serious (or, maybe just modest) dent in that Six
Billion figure.
AND, the good news will be that the most technologically advanced societies will be more likely to endure. Those at the bottom of the Food-Chain will
suffer most. A Win-Win situation.
As far as all of this nonsense about the terrible effects of the Ocean rising, all of this (assuming the worst) is going to take place over LONG
periods. There are countries right now on the North Sea and elsewhere that are holding back the ocean and doing so quite well.
Who knows, it might be more cost-effective (for Us) to ignore the problem and deal with the consequences. None of the societies seemingly most in
danger are contributing much to the World GDP, anyway.
MOST of those on the "Greenie" side seem to be the least religious, so they need not worry about answering for their actions. They need only worry
about the NOW.
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bajalou
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Another reason for higher tides.
ScienceDaily (Aug. 31, 2009) — Persistent winds and a weakened current in the Mid-Atlantic contributed to higher than normal sea levels along the
Eastern Seaboard in June and July, according to a new NOAA technical report.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090831132943.ht...
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Mexitron
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Hi Taco... I didn't say it was the exact same around the world... Only that it is a worldwide "point of reference", i.e. that elevation is based on
feet or meters 'above sea level'... correct? |
Another case in point, they are always finding whale bones around San Diego when they start excavating for new construction. So the sea levels must
have been much higher in the past. One could then say that sea levels are falling. |
Actually, the whale bones were in seabed that was uplifted and pushed up against the Pacific plate, so sea level change wasn't the cause of they're
being on high ground, in this case. But point well taken---next time you go to the coast imagine the sea level being 300 feet lower---that's what it
would have looked like only 20,000 years ago!
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Taco de Baja
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There are also seashells and bones of marine life on top of Mt. Everest - 29,029 feet above "sea level", pushed up there by India slamming into Asia.
Here is an article indicating that the mm changes in sea level in on a decades long cycle of going up and down. The current uptick for the last few
years is being wrongly extrapolated that this rate will continue into the future....Sound familiar?
| Quote: |
Figure 2. Comparison of the global mean decadal rates of sea level change based on the nine records with the rates from a 177 stations used in a
previous study. All rates are corrected for glacial isostatic adjustment and inverse barometer effects. The shaded region indicates ±1 standard error
(from Holgate, 2007).
Holgate, S. J., 2007. On the decadal rates of sea level change during the twentieth century, Geophysical Research Letters, 34, L01602,
doi:10.1029/2006GL028492. |
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Well, if we assume that the most horrific predictions of the Eco-Freaks come true, we can put a serious (or, maybe just modest) dent in that Six
Billion figure.
AND, the good news will be that the most technologically advanced societies will be more likely to endure. Those at the bottom of the Food-Chain will
suffer most. A Win-Win situation.
As far as all of this nonsense about the terrible effects of the Ocean rising, all of this (assuming the worst) is going to take place over LONG
periods. There are countries right now on the North Sea and elsewhere that are holding back the ocean and doing so quite well.
Who knows, it might be more cost-effective (for Us) to ignore the problem and deal with the consequences. None of the societies seemingly most in
danger are contributing much to the World GDP, anyway.
MOST of those on the "Greenie" side seem to be the least religious, so they need not worry about answering for their actions. They need only worry
about the NOW. |
"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."
Albert Einstein
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