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Woooosh
Banned
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Have I opened a dangerous can of PROFEPA worms? (English text added to thread below 12/13)
Is PROFEPA clean? (You know what I mean)
Two Baja PROFEPA inspectors came to our house to inspect the fenced area of our land concession we filed the "Denuncia Ambiental" complaint against.
It took three months to get a response from PROFEPA- and only after 1200 people viewed the YouTube video we forwarded to AFN in Tijuana. The UT says
it's "too local" of a story to cover, and Rosarito Cable won't touch this story.
I got a bad vibe from the guy. Although he said "I am the police to protect the beach", he had already talked with the "new owner" (the people with
the shiny new mercedes SUV and Range Rover) before talking with us- the concession holders. Maybe that's because the guy called PROFEPA himself after
seeing the notice we posted- not sure. The "new owner" also has made a few swings by to see if his fencing was still there (we aren't touching it)-
so someone is tipping him off. The inspectors asked if we saw the people do the fencing work and we told them yes, and that we talked with the
workers and also have photos of the "new owners".
We think the video evidence speaks for itself- the land is unbuildable and under water. But what do you do about people who have more money than
brains? Is it possible PROFEPA men could be working with the "new owners"?
The PROFEPA inspectors are coming back Monday morning to inspect the site again. They verbally told me no buildings should be in this area at all
(including the new condo tower built on top of an old foundation). They did say they had both seen the YouTube video.
We were very careful with the scripting of the videos. We focused on public safety (ensuring access to the whole beach for lifeguards) and protecting
the neighborhood from further damage from water coming over the seawall. We placed no blame in the video- we only asked for a solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tu47kn1Zp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owc56bQy0Os
Fellow Nomads- your thoughts?
[Edited on 12-12-2009 by Woooosh]
[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Fellow Nomads- your thoughts?
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I think Video is great. The whole world should be watching your predicament take shape. Sounds like the authorities have crawled into bed with the
losers. Now we get to watch them wiggle out of it.
The UT continues to build it's reputation as buttwipe. They've sold out.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
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The fencing and concession rights speak for themselves; the problem and solution seem obvious. I think you've done what you can and can't force the
issue any more than you have, unless there are other agencies you could send the YouTube to for action if nothing happens.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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From my experience with PROFEPA they are rife with corruption. A few well greased palms will get you permits for anything. I wanted to build a house
and SEMARNAP wanted to charge me almost 5000 dollars for an environmental impact statement, my neighbor paid $500 to PROFEPA and cleared his land from
corner to corner with no consequence.
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
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Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Whoosh. Guess I am one of the lucky ones, then. Profepa just presented me with a clean bill of health on several issues that were of concern to
myself and neighbors a year or so ago. No bribes, no nada. Just proof of legalities, age of construction, old aerial photos I had from 70's, etc.
I was well prepared with documented history. Completely hassle free was my experience. I was never asked for a gratuity, nor would I have offered a
bribe.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Woooosh
Banned
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Whoosh. Guess I am one of the lucky ones, then. Profepa just presented me with a clean bill of health on several issues that were of concern to
myself and neighbors a year or so ago. No bribes, no nada. Just proof of legalities, age of construction, old aerial photos I had from 70's, etc.
I was well prepared with documented history. Completely hassle free was my experience. I was never asked for a gratuity, nor would I have offered a
bribe. |
That's the approach I am hoping for... we have the same stuff in the video.
Please rate the video 5 stars for me and forward it to anyone you think would help.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
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Woosh:
I don't really understand what fencing does for the owners in this case. Isn't the reason someone fences a piece of bare land in Mexico is in order
to establish ownership where their might be some dispute? If I understand your video, the problem is that they may want to build on this land, right?
Isn't the land in the federal zone and doesn't that mean you can not build anything on it?
And what I'm really lost at is why would anyone want to build something there where there is almost certainty that it would be destroyed by water?
I must be missing a piece here.
Does essence predate existence?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Maybe they want to build a Marina.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Not sure if the issue is completely set in "concrete" when it comes to building a structure and/or building site within direct impact with the
ocean...
This as the Japanese seem quite capable of building just about anything, even when it's "in" the ocean.
Please see The Kansai Airport... http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery-detail.asp?name=Kansai
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Woooosh
Banned
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
Woosh:
I don't really understand what fencing does for the owners in this case. Isn't the reason someone fences a piece of bare land in Mexico is in order
to establish ownership where their might be some dispute? If I understand your video, the problem is that they may want to build on this land, right?
Isn't the land in the federal zone and doesn't that mean you can not build anything on it?. |
We though the exact same thing- until that condo tower went up. We never thought a concession was necessary- until that darned condo went up. (Still
unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's because
getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).
Some people have more money than brains. There was never a "for sale" sign on the lot which is very strange. Isn't it hard enough to sell a
underwater lot with a sign on it? No sympathy from me. Who decides staking out the middle of a crescent-shaped public beach is a good place to build
a house. We called them "victims" in the video (they do drive a new black Mercedes SUV after all) but how did they know it was for sale?
Sorry the videos are in Spanish. I can post the english scripts if anyone is interested.
[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
(Still unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's
because getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).
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There are resort hotels etc. throughout Mexico that have never had a vacancy or a living guest, making dirty money clean. Remember the Oasis right up
by you? That was one of them. Now, what's going in there? Another hi-rise condo building? The attorney general should question the source of
financing for all those places.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
We though the exact same thing- until that condo tower went up. We never thought a concession was necessary- until that darned condo went up. (Still
unoccupied and they took the "for sale" sign down 2 years ago. A realtor said they are trying to sell the whole building- I suspect that's because
getting individual condo papers and titles is impossible).
Some people have more money than brains. There was never a "for sale" sign on the lot which is very strange. Isn't it hard enough to sell a
underwater lot with a sign on it? No sympathy from me. Who decides staking out the middle of a crescent-shaped public beach is a good place to build
a house. We called them "victims" in the video (they do drive a new black Mercedes SUV after all) but how did they know it was for sale?
Sorry the videos are in Spanish. I can post the english scripts if anyone is interested.
[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh] |
I watched it, but I would understand it better in English.
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k-rico
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There are two large condo towers that were built in the past few years in Playas de Tijuana that are in the Federal Zone. The Federal Zone was
recently remapped due to erosion prior to the construction but the buildings went up anyway. The remapping precluded the developer (BCBA, Mexico City)
of the development I live in (La Perla) from getting the permits they needed to build the ocean front houses they had planned.
When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property
owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.
FWIW
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property
owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.
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Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless.
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dtbushpilot
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I'd like to hear an English version as well.....thanks...dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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Osprey
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Mean high tide is the highest wet spot in a lunar epoch -- 18 years but I do not know who says "this is the first day of the epoch" or what particular
day that is. I think they play a lot of games with that date. On our beach they have moved the mojones several times in the last 10 years and I think
they are about to do it again because of rare innundations.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property
owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.
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Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless. |
I've been told the last BIG el nino, I think in 1983, caused dramatic beach erosion in playas. Maybe fdt can confirm. Like I said, official remapping
was recent.
I just got back from an oceanfront walk, the usually broad TJ beach is gone, the sand has been washed out, the ocean is hitting the bluff. That seldom
if never happens in the summer. And it doesn't happen every winter but this winter yes.
The sand returns in the spring. I think it just gets washed out a bit off shore by storms on top of high tides.
[Edited on 12-13-2009 by k-rico]
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Woooosh
Banned
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
When I asked the onsite BCBA rep about how the condo towers could be built but BCBA could not do what they planned, he explained that the property
owner of the tower condos had permits to build prior to the remapping which put the property in the Federal Zone.
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Wow...Is the mean high tide line shifting around that much? These contractors are fearless. |
I have seen people indayglo wetsuits taking ocean measurements every year- but they do it on a day you could walk halfway out to the coronado islands
at low tide. That's how the tidal lines are manipulated IMHO. Our 1975 maps of my area show the lines haven't been moved much over time- you pick
the right day to measure and off you go. The pictures don't lie though.
It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Woooosh
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I'd like to hear an English version as well.....thanks...dt |
Here's the English script. Play the video and follow along...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tu47kn1Zp4
• Title
• The tourists and residents of Rosarito Beach enjoy the white sand beach that is cared for by many people. The Lifeguards watch for our safety, the
Rosarito Beach "Rangers" maintain the beach and many local citizens and volunteers clean the beach regularly.
• We thank them all for cleaning and taking care of the entire length of the public beach, not just the Tourist Zones as many cities do. They work
very hard and we appreciate their hard work every day.
• The neighbors hold the Federal Zone (FMZ) Land Concession for this piece of beach and filed the proper complaints when an individual claimed private
ownership and fenced a section. It took two years for Mexico City to approve our FMZ land concession- and we talked with the field inspectors from
PROFEPA several times during that long period.
• We have asked PROFEPA to act quickly and enforce the land concession they have granted. We have no interest in placing blame- only in finding a
solution for public safety.
• Villas del Mar is the lowest elevation point in the city of Rosarito Beach and the streets are just below sea level. Eight months a year the beach
is sandy and usable- but it suffers badly for four months in the winter storms and high tides. Each year the water rises even higher.
• PROFEPA understands the ocean waters and this neighborhood. They have told us we need protection from the waves and they have a plan to complete
the gaps in the existing sea wall and to make it taller and wider. The PROFEPA plan is not at all compatible with new buildings- as construction
materials and debris carried over the seawall by the waves would seriously damage cars and existing homes. There should be no buildings remaining on
the ocean-side of the sea wall at all- as they were ordered off permanently years ago .
• We know the tidal maps for land use can and have been manipulated by corrupt officials, but it only takes your eyes to see the ocean has drawn its
own boundaries- and enforces it on its own. With 4500 new condos and homes for sale today in Rosarito Beach- is it really necessary to steal titled
concession beach from the people of Mexico to build on?
• This old video clip shows the same beach before the new condo tower was built and before an older house was removed by its owner, as all were
instructed to do by Mexico City.
• These existing buildings are still occupied though and have badly cracked and unsafe foundations. The new condo tower also shows it's old stone
foundation which has caused the entire building to be unstable - with serious new cracks visible in the foundation.
• These three buildings block all beach access for people walking the beach, for the lifeguards and "Beach Rangers" and for all emergency vehicles.
Everyone must go all the way out to Benito Juarez Boulevard and then back to the beach on the next street to get around them.
• This inaccessible north third of the Rosarito Public beach is where most locals and Tijuana visitors go. It is the most dangerous section of the
beach because of the strong currents and the discharge of water from the PeMex plant. The lifeguard tower shown is left unmanned and the beach
unguarded many busy periods- because there is no beach access.
• This north section of the beach also has construction and engineering problems. A planned 24 story tower project pumps the foul water from its
foundation onto the public beach every day- for the past two years. There are also wire fences in areas where no one has obtained a FMZ concession to
protect the beach as we have.
• Where engineered storm-water drains exist, they are incapable of handling significant rainfall, causing even more beach erosion.
• We believe PROFEPA understands these environmental and safety problems. We encourage PROFEPA to act quickly and physically to remove the human
and physical obstructions shown here.
• The safety of the people of Villas Del Mar is dependent on the actions of PROFEPA to complete the seawall.
• The safety of tourists and we locals who use the beach depends on PROFEPA to also restore complete beach access for Lifeguards and Emergency
Services.
• We look forward to continue working with PROFEPA and strongly encourage the City of Rosarito Beach to embrace and support intelligent land use for
its economic future and continued prosperity as a tourist destination.
• Thank You
[Edited on 12-13-2009 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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surebought
Junior Nomad
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Registered: 11-30-2009
Location: Ensenada
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My first thought is that the person concerned who posted this video. Are you also the holder of a separate parcel Federal Zone Concession? Or just a
third party concerned about the beach? You don't want to blow the whistle on yourself. Federal Zone property lines move around a lot at the
discretion of profepa. I don't think its corruption at all. It's just that they didn't send an inspector out there before they issued the
Concession. Now, they don't want to lose face. Most of these guys spend their life's energies trying to convince their superiors that they're not
incompetent. Sooner or later they end up at immigration.
In a while the smile on my face turned to plaster.
Stick around while the clown who is sick, does the trick of disaster. Neil Young from Mr Soul.
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