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Brian L
Nomad
Posts: 250
Registered: 6-21-2010
Location: Alpine, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Bad Days
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How many crimes have really happened to American tourists?
So, I'm still trying to talk my wife into camping in Baja. We used to go a lot in the 1990's, but it has been awhile since our last trip.
Every time I bring up the topic of taking our trailer to Baja for a few weeks, the first thing EVERYBODY says is "Are you sure it's safe?"
Besides the Narco-related crimes in the border towns, they all seem to remember a few tourist related stories.
One is what happened to the McMillans on their way home from a Baja race. Another is two people killed while camping on a beach, and another is a
family robbed at knife or gunpoint.
I think those three are about it over the last decade, but am not sure.
What can I say to all those that seem to think going to Baja is the surest way to die?
Thanks!
Brian
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It was friends of McMillins who were pulling a McMillin race trailer who elected not to spend the night in Ensenada at the hotel provided for them...
Got carjacked near Rosarito, middle of the night... When the criminals realized they didn't get a rich McMillin family member, they released the
family who walked to a nearby home to get help... lost their truck, etc. McMillins didn't race Baja again until this year.
Here is Andy McMillin's web site: http://www.andymcmillin.com/
As for safety, we had two (more) great Baja trips recently (with other Nomads) and had NO issues with crime... I never had since 1965.
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Pacifico
Super Nomad
Posts: 1299
Registered: 5-26-2008
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Don't tell them anything......Let them stay home in the U.S.! It keeps the crowds to a minimum!!! 99% of what everyone hears is media hype and it gets
blown out of proportion. Stay away from the border towns and don't take any drugs, guns, ammo, etc. and you will be fine. Always be aware of your
surroundings. Keep in mind, there are no guarantees in life....
There is no guarantee something bad won't happen to you in the U.S. either. I feel safer in baja than many places I go in the U.S.!
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3894
Registered: 2-9-2004
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There were more crimes on the streets of San Diego last week than all of Baja between El Rosario and La Paz. Probably.
Just get through Ensenada ASAP, drive very defensively, be prepared for "incidents" (spare parts, shovels, tow chain, water, first aid kit) and you
will have a fabulous time.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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Many people will always be afraid to go to Baja. News reports of someone being robbed or killed builds on than fear. You need to look into when such
things happened and where. Usually it has been late night near the border. Simply cross the border during the day and get down to Ensenada or San
Felipe or further south before dark. If being among other Americans will make you feel safer then go when there is a SCORE race and stay near the race
course. Stay in the RV campgrounds, there are many on both sides of Baja. There is always the possibility that something will happen down there as
well as where you live or anywhere else. Use your common sense. Be aware of where you're at and whats around you.
I find that some people are afraid to venture south due to the language barrier. They don't speak spanish and thus don't feel comfortable in the
setting. They will use the robbing and killings as an excuse. I don't believe the Mexicans expect you to speak or understand fluent spanish. At least
that's my experience. Well except maybe the Fererales. I find it fun and interesting to use what little I know to communicate with the gas attendant
or in the shops and stores and resturants and just the people you meet along the way. You can learn a lot just talking to them with a little spanish
and english.
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oldjack
Nomad
Posts: 350
Registered: 1-26-2006
Location: Los Barriles
Member Is Offline
Mood: retired
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Those who post on this board that suggest/declare that the reports of criminal activity are largely "hype" must have a different set of values than
some of the rest of us... I always wanted to feet safe when I was younger and doing stupid things in Tijuana/Ensenada even back then Nogalez was fun
and exciting... but I knew that I took a chance of getting pick-pocketed or short-changed/overcharged... now it is quite possible that you can be
camping on a remote beach and be robbed... or worse... you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and suffer unknown consequences..... yes the
same can happen NOB(but there I am permitted to provide some of my own defense... and I do).... I am getting ready to retire in December and will be
moving to MX permanently... everywhere I pick I evaluate the safety.... now even riding the public bus on the mainland is a crapshoot because of all
the recent hold-ups that not much is done about... it is not that there is some crime... it is the level of personal threat that has changed
significantly... I can even argue with the Pemex idiots.... but a desparate idiot with a gun is not something the Mexican gov't will allow me to
protect myself from legally.... yea yea don't take anything with you(including money) that you wouldn't want to loose.... what bs... I want to be
comfortable and feel safe and know that those who are protecting me are doing their job..... I have found at least four places in Baja and the
Mainland that I am considering that afford me that piece of mind and distance from all the crap that others say are over-hyped.... my deepest
sympathies to those families that sufferred from the unjust results that were over-hyped in the media....
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Brian L
Nomad
Posts: 250
Registered: 6-21-2010
Location: Alpine, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Bad Days
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Yes, I do feel bad for those that have had unfortunate incidents happen to them.
I just hate having to defend my decision to travel to Baja with the old "Crime is worse in the US than down there."
It really is though. In today's local paper is a couple of stories of folks getting robbed at gun or knife-point.
Brian
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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I've lived in Rosarito Beach for about six years now. The crime we have experienced here is about the same any local Mexican family experiences.
Most Americans would not feel comfortable accepting their share of "bad luck" like many Mexicans do. Crimes against ex-pats are generally not covered
by the NOB media like a tourist incident would be- those stories are considered "local interest" and are quietly dismissed. Luckily there have been
few incidents where tourists were involved or intentionally hurt. If you are looking for a list of what happens in six years... 2 truck thefts (one
from the garage), 1 armed carjack attempt in Playas de Tijuana, 1 extortion attempt by a (former) neighbor, 1 kidnap attempt (although the PGJE says
there was actually a second attempt that we were not even aware of). We are actually fairly comfortable now with that level of risk and violence-
same as everyone else around here.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20366
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
There were more crimes on the streets of San Diego last week than all of Baja between El Rosario and La Paz. Probably.
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"probably?"
definitely, you are comparing apples and oranges.
try comparing crimes per capita.
according to fishy, in CdC, the govt commits crimes against tourists many times each day.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Danger Lurks wherever you Go.
However, I wonder about a statement which says "I feel safer in Baja than MANY places where I go in the U.S."
Sounds like going a lot of places in the U.S. where I wouldn't.
But, it's TRUE that even out here in the high-desert we have our (small) share of violent crime. However, when reading the reports in local papers,
it's RARE that there is an actual Bad vs Innocent incident. Usually, both parties were involved in some way and, usually, it involved drugs.
A BIG difference en El Norte (for me and many friends) is that we can travel armed with the means to defend against whatever we might encounter.
Although the need hasn't occurred in a number of years, the option is there.
And, at home, an aggressor would face a withering response. At my home, anyway.
I'm reminded of a line in Joseph Wambaugh's "The Blooding" in which he described the difference in Brit v U.S. approach to taking a suspect into
custody. As he described it, In England, they preferred to let the suspect get home so that he'd be surrounded and trapped. In the U.S., however,
they preferred taking him BEFORE he arrived home since that home might contain enough armament to take over the Middle-East.
Be that as it may, although Baja IS the most dangerous place that I travel to, it is still one of the most enjoyable. It's simply a matter of
realizing the risks and minimizing those risks. I haven't traveled Baja at night in years and, likely never will again.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by blane
I just hate having to defend my decision to travel to Baja with the old "Crime is worse in the US than down there."
It really is though. |
In that case, you should pack your bags and move down here where it's reatively safe. 
Just follow the same suggestions you see here today and have for years; don't drive at night and don't camp in isolated places.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20366
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
don't drive at night and don't camp in isolated places. |
well, that advice does not make baja sound very safe.
also sounds like plot elements from horror movies: need to get off the road and indoors before sun goes down....
if you "camp" in crowded areas, can you really still call it "camping?"
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
well, that advice does not make baja sound very safe.
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It isn't. These are just psychiatric tricks to avoid paranoia.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Noticias/09072...
four ambushed and executed in Rosarito Beach Wednesday including a US Citizen... but none were a tourist so no news NOB. P-nche deportees.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Where the Bad Guys are
Comparing the crime rate in ANY two countries is meaningless. The figures are only meaningful for wherever you're going to be. How many people are
killed in San Bernardino doesn't mean crap if you're not going to be going through there.
In another case of my prescience being reinforced, it was about Twenty years ago that I suggested a "Def Con" Street Atlas ala the Thomas Guides
wherein each area would be given a Def Con rating dependent on the crime rate enabling an out-of-towner to instantly make a judgement regarding the
area he visits or travels through.
Although that hasn't come to pass (as far as I know), thanks to the Internet, the basic idea has been adopted in some areas to the outrage of the
Chambers of Commerce and others.
SO, what we need is for an enterprising person to put together an accurate tally of Baja Crime stats (not an easy task given the corrupt bureaucracy)
and start printing out categorized tourist guides which could be handed out at the Tourist information and Insurance kiosks.
I can see that happening. Sure.
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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Old News:
On the evening of Wednesday, 19 May 2008 the Central Rosarito Beach area there was a report of a quadruple murder on a country road in the area
of Morro Canyon.....
...She was identified as Craig Ginna Libey, a U.S. citizen, while the body located a few yards away turned out to be that of Antonio Virgen Castaņeda,
alias El Kilo, who shortly thereafter in the course of the investigation was determined to be Libey's boyfriend.
Moral of the story: Don't hang out in Rosarito with someone whose nickname is "Kilo"
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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Pacifico
Super Nomad
Posts: 1299
Registered: 5-26-2008
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
How many people are killed in San Bernardino doesn't mean crap if you're not going to be going through there.
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Funny you mention San Bernardino, Mr.Bill! That's one of the places I'm talking about.....
Yes, I feel safer in baja than San Bird-doo!!! 
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
Old News:
On the evening of Wednesday, 19 May 2008 the Central Rosarito Beach area there was a report of a quadruple murder on a country road in the area
of Morro Canyon.....
...She was identified as Craig Ginna Libey, a U.S. citizen, while the body located a few yards away turned out to be that of Antonio Virgen Castaņeda,
alias El Kilo, who shortly thereafter in the course of the investigation was determined to be Libey's boyfriend.
Moral of the story: Don't hang out in Rosarito with someone whose nickname is "Kilo" |
So Today's Frontera is a month off on their crime reporting... that adds confidence. 
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Taco de Baja
Super Nomad
Posts: 1913
Registered: 4-14-2004
Location: Behind the Orange Curtain, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dreamin' of Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
So Today's Frontera is a month off on their crime reporting... that adds confidence. |
Make that 25 months +/- ..... May 2008 ......
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Safer in Baja than San Berdoo ?
Me Too ! It's a town of a completely different color.
But then, I haven't been to San Bernardino in about Five years.
Made it as far as Redlands a couple of years back.
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