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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I would mostly agree with Gnu, real estate agents in Mexico have no fiduciary responsibility to the clients, either buyers or sellers, all they are
good for is directing you to homes that are for sale, beyond that it is the notario that does the actual part that counts. IMO what they do is not
worth the typical 10% they charge.
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maspacifico
Nomad
Posts: 317
Registered: 4-22-2008
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10% is pretty painful, if you are on the selling side. If you are on the buying end, and there is a good agent/representative/friend, they can be a
god send. We bought a property in Todos Santos and the listing agent would have been worth an extra 5% from our end. Then there are the multitudes of
displaced souls down here that think selling real estate is easy money....
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3603
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
hahahahahaha
osprey you nailed it big time.
gnu kid - you have too much time on your hands... it is clear in what you write, long boring prose.
sorry - you have no credulity with me. |
Mike AND Osprey are the ones nailing it. Paul is shooting from the hip, as he does from time to time. Relax, Paul, you don't always have to be
right.
Lots of good real estate professionals in Baja -- some happen to be Norteamericanos. Big deal. I know 2 in Todos.
Too much stuff written about buying in Baja. Find someone you trust, get referrals.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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MsTerieus
Nomad
Posts: 462
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid ...
In the USA the word Real Estate Agent connotes, denotes and implies legal license requirements and responsibilities, A failure to comply is legal
grounds for recourse for negligence. ... |
| Quote: | | In California this can mean that the two separate brokers, one for the buyer and one for the seller are legally and financially responsible to do
their job correctly. If any number of circumstances goes wrong the agency must pay the costs to rectify the circumstances. And they pay dearly for
their negligence. ... |
NOW you're telling us how the LAW works???!!! You are dead wrong on the first point above, and very inaccurate on the second.
| Quote: | | In Baja there are many people claiming to be AGENT who would like to double end a deal, that is they claim to represent the buyer and seller, which
is impossible to do ethically. |
I have got news for you, Gnu: It is done in the U.S. all the time and is an acceptable -- "ethical," in terms of RE licensing requirements (as long
as the parties both agree to it). So you don't seem to know much about real estate, either.
| Quote: | | On the other hand, when you see an office that promotes Codwell [sic] Banker, or Century 21 Real Estate in Baja, in fact it is not....
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That is not my understanding -- I believe that that these outfits are FRANCHISES that can be purchased both in the US and in Mexico. So any CB
franchise, e.g., is just as much a CB Office as another.
| Quote: | | I know this because I earned a license once ... |
In WHAT?  (It sure wasn't LAW!  Was it a RE broker's license? RE agent's license? (Bartending?) What state?
Despite my criticisms, I do agree with your take on the lack of agency between a realtor and purchaser or seller in Mx, and I think that your "buyer
beware" advice is very sound.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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A real estate agent in Mexico:
Doesn't need a license.
Doesn't have to pass a test.
Doesn't have to disclose who they are representing.
Does not need any real estate experience.
Most likely only knows real estate law to the extent that another"agent told them"
So you need to be informed.
Do your own diligence.
Employ a notario for all the legal papers and filings.
Can anyone tell me what a real estate agent in Mexico does to earn a 10% commission?
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20370
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
A real estate agent in Mexico:
Doesn't need a license.
Doesn't have to pass a test.
Doesn't have to disclose who they are representing.
Does not need any real estate experience.
Most likely only knows real estate law to the extent that another"agent told them"
So you need to be informed.
Do your own diligence.
Employ a notario for all the legal papers and filings.
Can anyone tell me what a real estate agent in Mexico does to earn a 10% commission? |
and remember that property title in mexico is nebulous,... there is a reason that you can't get effective title insurance in mexico.
never invest more than you are willing to lose,... and remember that property investment in mexico is high risk
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slimshady
Nomad
Posts: 291
Registered: 9-3-2008
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I have purchased several properties around baja the last several years. I have bought properties in Cerro Colorado, Punta Perfecta, Los Barriles, and
Boca Alamo. I have also walked away from other deals because of title concerns. I even walked away from Puerto Los Cabos lot because they didnt have
tax id numbers for the parcel yet, but were promising me they would get it.
A things to know are lsited on the previous entry and also that title insurance is questionable at best and USA named real estate companies are not
finacially liable for services rendered in Baja. Basically you can't sue REMAX in the USA for REMAX in BAJA
In los Cabos I would use Alan Theirs or Marlene Gutierrez from buysell cabo.
In Los Barriles I would go with Bahia Real Estate. Rosa Geraldo will get you what you are looking for. They have an office next to Otro Vez. I have
only had good experiences with them and I can trust them with my money.
You see it's one thing to sell you a piece of dirt and another to sell you a piece od land clear of any liens or title issues. This is where she comes
in with the knowledge and connections in La Paz to research any piece of land you would want.
I have bought properties from other realtors and had her do my title research in La Paz for a nominal fee. Most American and Canadian realtors
struggle with spanish however you may find some decent ones. Her husband build homes and builds some of the nicest homes around. Give them a try. If
you want their email I can give it to you just U2U me.
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Marinero
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 11-4-2003
Location: Los Barriles, BCS
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| Quote: | and remember that property title in mexico is nebulous,... there is a reason that you can't get effective title insurance in mexico.
never invest more than you are willing to lose,... and remember that property investment in mexico is high risk |
No effective title insurance in Mexico? That is news to me. Several American companies issue policies. Also, escrowa and closings can be
accomplished in the states for Mexico properties.
Si estás buscando la person que cambiará su vida, échale una mirada en el espejo.
Fish logo from www.usafishing.com, used w/permission.
But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have..... |
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3603
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Can't get effective title insurance? Think again.
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
and remember that property title in mexico is nebulous,... there is a reason that you can't get effective title insurance in mexico.
......
property investment in mexico is high risk |
http://www.stewart.com.mx/
''Underwriting a property's title
Conducting a rigorous title investigation, STGMEX develops a robust summary of a property's title, often dating to the title's origin. Utilizing the
detailed investigation, STGMEX's underwriters asses the property's title and then insure policy holders against potential losses resulting from
matters affecting the title.*
Types of matters covered *:
Invalid documents executed under expired/non-existent power.
False assumption of identity concerning the legitimate property owner.
Liens and financial burdens charged to the previous property owner.
Non registered easements.
Hidden heirs of previous owners
The thorough nature of the title investigation along with the risk assumption by STGMEX gives policy holders an unparalleled level of protection from
loses associated with a property's title.''
The parent company, Houston-based Stewart Information Services Corporation, has been in the title insurance business in the United States for more
than a century. In recent years, it has expanded into about 30 other countries, including Mexico.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
"Hello, Señor Lopez, notario # 21, this is Mr. Gnu of La Paz. I've been trying to get you on the phone for several days. I would like to meet with you
tomorrow afternoon at 3PM to get some information from you about the number of realty transactions you have recorded over the last few years that were
handled by realtors versus those without realtors."
"No, no, I can't pay you. I just need the information for this chat board thing. I'll need a few days with you to go through the platte book and have
your girls pull files so we can look at the fideacomisos, the transaction notes, maybe the settlement agreement. See these people on the chat board
are giving me a hard time and I ......" Click.
[Edited on 10-3-2010 by Osprey] |
If you are uncomfortable talking to a notaria then you are not going to have much luck in the process of living in Baja since the relationship you
have is an important one that requires trust.
Perhaps going to meet a notario is not for everyone, but as a long time visitor here I decided to make it my goal to try to get to know them in order
to know which ones I felt most comfortable with.
You should be able to walk into any notario office and wait to say a quick hello to the notaria. If they are not on site or difficult to engage then
they are not likely the notaria for you.
This should be pretty simple and obvious. I'm not sure why Osprey takes offense to the notion.
If it makes it any easier I'll describe my first meeting with a notaria, I was frustrated and confused and literally slamming the steering wheel when
a beautiful woman drove up next to me and said do you need help? I said yes and she told me to follow her to get coffee, when I got out of the car
there stood a woman about 6'tall plus high heels, a model! I told of my plights and confusion over real estate agents and businesses and she said
let's go to meet a notaria and we did, she walked in an introduced me to the Notaria. That was the first time and I have been building relationships,
asking questions since. It's was a very important step to me to understand the notaria is a person who you can go and speak to, they answer your basic
questions as part of their job, you pay when you complete a paper transaction which you eventually you will be required to complete, such as land
transaction, business foundation, wills, etc...
There is nothing to be afraid of and you should meet more than one for certain and ask questions, if you don't get answers then you might prefer
another notaria.
And to Osprey and Mike, it seems that you base an inordinate number of your replies on a personal attack? Consider that there are people who need
answers here, none of us may know or we believe we know the answers, only through a dialogue and references can we get to the truth. I am glad that at
least you are reading the posts and considering them, but consider making a serious reply, one that contradicts the points or adds support instead the
ad hominem attacks which add nothing and are clearly false arguments that only serve to distract.
This dialogue and your one dimensional replies point to a larger issue: Why would communities collude to reinforce falsehoods and obscure the truth?
Certainly this is a relevant question here on BN and in our broader community. There are many falsehoods which are common in our society, for example
that war is for peace, or that we are defending ourselves in Iraq, or that the money markets are free, or that oil came from dinosaurs and is
therefore limited. These are a few examples, as are the argument Osprey makes, which is to call someone names or implying that the point can not be
valid because I am a camper in baja not a lawyer, instead of addressing the point.
Why is it that people in general, in this thread for example, support the collective lies of society instead of participating in critical discussion,
specifically the lack of understanding of the issues surrounding these people calling themselves your real estate agent? It may have something to do
with linguistics, people learned to have faith in the words Real Estate Agent when they were young wherever they came from so when they arrive here
they want to reinforce something familiar. Whereas I could be wrong Osprey and Mike, but from my research I don't believe Real Estate Agent is a
Mexican legal term.
Believing in cultural and societal untruths is to your distinct disadvantage. Isn't your life goal to investigate and succeed in life? Find out the
answers through your own research.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MsTerieus
...
Despite my criticisms, I do agree with your take on the lack of agency between a realtor and purchaser or seller in Mx, and I think that your "buyer
beware" advice is very sound. |
I am not a lawyer, not at all, I am a simple gardener and sometimes I fix my cars. I am only telling what I believe to be true, if you have better
info, why not add the information instead of simply making a personal attack-saying it's wrong without correcting the points details and making your
own point.
If you feel you are knowledgeable, contribute and help out the community.
As to your insinuation, yes you can double end deals in the USA and many do but it is disclosed.
In the USA, a person must understand that they are giving up their option to have their own broker and agent when they agree to have a broker
double-end a deal.
It isn't really helpful to fall into a trap of a discussion of comparisons between the USA and MX, I think it is more helpful to address understanding
the false perception many project upon the terms Real Estate Agent when they are used here and a few basic pertinent points which I posed, which are:
In Baja Real Estate Agents are not legally bound to serve you or disclose full terms of transactions.
In Baja few visitors understand the process of Bien Raices, in a transaction you are paying the Notaria and you are paying the bank for your
fidicomiso. You cna check the title yourself as well in the registro. So what are you paying upwards of 10% or more to this person claiming to
represent you who is often unwilling or incapable to do the work?
Again, one should be asking why are so many people here so focused on personal attacks and which are an appeal fallacious logic? Why not make a point
if you have one and support your position if it's in contrast to another poster.
We need to ask ourselves what purpose serves false logic, what disadvantages does it bring and learn to have communication what leads toward good
information.
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MsTerieus
Nomad
Posts: 462
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California
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Hasn't it occurred to you, YET, that possibly, these "personal attacks" are a direct reaction to your assertions of FACT (not opinion -- there is a
big difference)? Why should I waste others' time and mine writing a long explanation of why your statements such as that a realtor in the US who
worked without a license would be liable for negligence? It is a ridiculous assertion; I would not lend it credibility by explaining why it is
ridiculous.
If you are so worried about these personal attacks, I would suggest that you make your assertions much more carefully, noting when you are merely
stating an opinion and when you believe you are stating facts.
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by MsTerieus
...
Despite my criticisms, I do agree with your take on the lack of agency between a realtor and purchaser or seller in Mx, and I think that your "buyer
beware" advice is very sound. |
I am not a lawyer, not at all, I am a simple gardener and sometimes I fix my cars. I am only telling what I believe to be true, if you have better
info, why not add the information instead of simply making a personal attack-saying it's wrong without correcting the points details and making your
own point.
If you feel you are knowledgeable, contribute and help out the community.
As to your insinuation, yes you can double end deals in the USA and many do but it is disclosed.
In the USA, a person must understand that they are giving up their option to have their own broker and agent when they agree to have a broker
double-end a deal.
It isn't really helpful to fall into a trap of a discussion of comparisons between the USA and MX, I think it is more helpful to address understanding
the false perception many project upon the terms Real Estate Agent when they are used here and a few basic pertinent points which I posed, which are:
In Baja Real Estate Agents are not legally bound to serve you or disclose full terms of transactions.
In Baja few visitors understand the process of Bien Raices, in a transaction you are paying the Notaria and you are paying the bank for your
fidicomiso. You cna check the title yourself as well in the registro. So what are you paying upwards of 10% or more to this person claiming to
represent you who is often unwilling or incapable to do the work?
Again, one should be asking why are so many people here so focused on personal attacks and which are an appeal fallacious logic? Why not make a point
if you have one and support your position if it's in contrast to another poster.
We need to ask ourselves what purpose serves false logic, what disadvantages does it bring and learn to have communication what leads toward good
information. |
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Gnukid, you make a powerful argument. I was gonna try to make my point but you got me with the tall girl outside the notario's office who made an
introduction for you. I think I know that girl! What a coincidence! She was like a bronze statue and after the meeting she took me to places in La Paz
I had no idea about. Did you smell Jasmine? Did she hum a little samba tune as she walked? I don't know, you might be right about a lot of this stuff
because I was somehow, how do you say, bewitched, in her trance for the whole afternoon and all that next night. I never did get to talk to Alejandro
Davis Drew. Just so you know, I didn't even need a notario, let alone a realtor. Delia and I were able to close the deal on our own.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by drarroyo
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Most real estate transactions in Baja are person to person, seller to buyer
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I wonder how true that statement is. I suppose that if you are referring to "most real estate transactions between Mexicans," it would be true. But,
if all of those real estate offices that have popped up around town here in La Paz during the last decade or so are any indication, I'd bet that more
than 50% of foreigners are using real estate agents (or were, before the crisis) as their option. The problem for many would be the language barrier;
your average foreigner isn't able to speak to your average ejidatario--who offer the best prices for property in these parts.
But I do agree totally that "real estate agents" down here are people with whom one must exercise caution for the reasons you have said. There is no
regulation at present, any skum on the run can set up a shingle and start swindling foreigners, who often blindly trust their fellow countrymen over
locals. Sad, but true. |
reread Paul's (Gnukid) postings. You're golden. Period.
There's opportunity!! (admittedly longterm ... but GREAT opportunity none the less.) You are not in Kansas anymore.
suerte |
I must have missed something
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Another option is to hire a real estate lawyer to represent your interests and perform the negotiations. That's what I did and it worked great. I paid
a young bilingual Mexican lawyer $500. He was with me at the meetings with the seller, did the negotiations I wanted done, pushed the paper, got the
fideicomiso set up at the bank, and was with me at the closing at the notario's office. I needed the hand holding and really appreciated his efforts.
He took his job seriously, explained the process, answered my many questions, and acted in a highly professional manner. Well worth $500.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: |
the seller must verify no liens and ownership current
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I would think that it would also behoove the buyer to ensure that there aren't any liens on the property and that current ownership is clear.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
Another option is to hire a real estate lawyer to represent your interests and perform the negotiations. That's what I did and it worked great. I paid
a young bilingual Mexican lawyer $500. He was with me at the meetings with the seller, did the negotiations I wanted done, pushed the paper, got the
fideicomiso set up at the bank, and was with me at the closing at the notario's office. I needed the hand holding and really appreciated his efforts.
He took his job seriously, explained the process, answered my many questions, and acted in a highly professional manner. Well worth $500.
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While I have a good enough command of Spanish to handle most things likely to come up during real estate transactions in Mexico (I've bought a house
in La Paz and some properties from ejidatarios), I think that k-rico used the approach I would favor if I didn't. Things can get complex in a hurry,
especially when language is a barrier.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Gnukid, you make a powerful argument. I was gonna try to make my point but you got me with the tall girl outside the notario's office who made an
introduction for you. I think I know that girl! What a coincidence! She was like a bronze statue and after the meeting she took me to places in La Paz
I had no idea about. Did you smell Jasmine? Did she hum a little samba tune as she walked? I don't know, you might be right about a lot of this stuff
because I was somehow, how do you say, bewitched, in her trance for the whole afternoon and all that next night. I never did get to talk to Alejandro
Davis Drew. Just so you know, I didn't even need a notario, let alone a realtor. Delia and I were able to close the deal on our own.
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I forgot the important part she was Miss Baja California.
And FYI people like Mike often say things like no way, who would go out and meet notaria?#@! which is sad to me, that people lack imagination, what
else in life is there but to go out and engage the feeling that you can go out and find the answers to your questions, to find out that you were
wrong, Baja is not San Diego, you can go out and walk right into almost any official office and just start asking questions and no one will be mad at
you and likely they will help a great deal at no cost. Usually you can bring your dog too.
Hopefully that is the conclusion of the thread, be wary of people in LB who claim to be the greatest RE Agent ever yet seem to lack knowledge or
understanding of the market, not to mention their listings are outrageously priced and they want you to pay a hefty commission but their car is broke
so they do not want to drive to La Paz!
People have often said to me, no way I don't believe X when I recount the daily stories, which is why I started a daily journal with photos which is
private but I share and I can always pull up the photo of an anchorage, or a fish, or a mission just like my partner DK...
Here is Gabriela a few days later at her birthday, she invited me to come and to bring friends! We made balloon art for her. Very reflective of
Pacenos who are willing to help a stranger!
Gabriella Cumple
For kicks, here are a few more.
Tense moments
Fiesta
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MsTerieus
Hasn't it occurred to you, YET, that possibly, these "personal attacks" are a direct reaction to your assertions of FACT (not opinion -- there is a
big difference)? Why should I waste others' time and mine writing a long explanation of why your statements such as that a realtor in the US who
worked without a license would be liable for negligence? It is a ridiculous assertion; I would not lend it credibility by explaining why it is
ridiculous.
If you are so worried about these personal attacks, I would suggest that you make your assertions much more carefully, noting when you are merely
stating an opinion and when you believe you are stating facts.
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First off, you are mis-attributing statements me, a licensed realtor working for a broker, would be liable.
Your post speaks for itself, I still have compassion for you and I am sure many here do too. If you decide you seek a broader consciousness you'll
find it. If you would like to contribute please do, I am sure you must have some pertinent knowledge you could share.
I think personal attacks hurt no one, they are easily ignored, the point I made to you is, you are apparently interested and would like to add a post
so why not contribute, but to each his own.
You know I was thinking that negativity is just a habit, it's addictive, you can break it, just turn the corners of you mouth up and you feel a
sensation, an improved mood. Try and see.
Good luck
[Edited on 10-5-2010 by gnukid]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Ah, Gabriela. Reminds me of Junko Podna:
Well I pawned my ratchet and pistol
And I pawned my watch and chain
Woulda pawned my sweet Gabriela
But the smart girl wouldn't sign her name
Gnu, I'm downloading every one of your posts. They will one day become A How To. Don't know what I'll call it because Fred Reed already has the title
I wanted: "Fred on Everything". Now when I read your posts I get all the way to the end by pretending they are suggestions not directions for life on
earth as you would have us live it. Is there a cover charge BTW?
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