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Steve&Debby
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 04:02 PM


We can only make it down once or twice a year at this point in time.We would prefer the San Felipe area. Are there any houses that could be rented in the San Felipe area?
Yes, this is in the La Mission area.Is that good or bad?

[Edited on 12-9-2010 by Steve&;Debby]
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mcfez
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 06:07 PM


Pete's Camp: rentals in there....but can be noisy on holidays

Campos Ocotillo: several places to rent currently


El Dorado Ranch: places on the mountain side of highway. Lou here knows everyone there I think...u2 him.

Local internet web papers have listings:

Blueroadrunner.com
SanFelipe.mex.com


I will be there in March for Spring Break. Be very happy to escort you around town. Show you some nice places and all.

Maybe.....just maybe.....we'll run into DavidK at Shell Beach. He holds his yearly Spell it Right Camp there....1000's show up to learn spelling stuff like Puertotictios :o

[Edited on 12-10-2010 by mcfez]




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bajaguy
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 06:14 PM


Wonder if DianaB still has her place for sale at LaMission????



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Dave
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 06:32 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Steve&;Debby
Yes, this is in the La Mission area.Is that good or bad?


Not necessarily either. The key is dealing with the Ejido. Realize that if they decide, for any reason, you're not welcome...you're out. But, if you don't go crazy and build expensive structures, live in a trailer or moho and have low rent I don't see how you could get hurt. That place is probably the least expensive and closest to the border spot I know of.




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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 07:02 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by bajaguy
Wonder if DianaB still has her place for sale at LaMission????



She passed away.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-9-2010 at 07:08 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Not necessarily either. The key is dealing with the Ejido. Realize that if they decide, for any reason, you're not welcome...you're out. But, if you don't go crazy and build expensive structures, live in a trailer or moho and have low rent I don't see how you could get hurt. That place is probably the least expensive and closest to the border spot I know of.


Best advice available. Pay attention. We don't give you these caveats because we don't know what we're talking about. We're freakin' experts. The only one's available to you, and...we don't charge.
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allroads10
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[*] posted on 12-11-2010 at 06:40 PM


I have a lot in Campo de Trailers which is owned by the Ejido La Mision and is the property to which you refer. It is a great deal as far as price goes. We have been there almost three years now.

It is much safer by far than the community along the north side of the river and as safe as Punta Piedra (PP) with which we share the exit off the toll road at km 70.

Also we have less road noise than either PP and Santa Maria and no through traffic.

Any "expert" who would claim that a Mexican lease is not as legally binding as any such contract in the USA is either uninformed or provincial.

My neighbors include two doctors with practices in the USA, two couples who previously owned restaurant chains in the USA before they retired to our Campo, and a practicing attorney from San Diego who reviewed Mexican lease law and the legality of the lease, itself, before he entered into it.

Those who hold a lease here are able to sell the lease by the terms of the lease itself. During the run up in Baja real estate prices investors were buying multiple leases here to resell as they cost nothing but the first years rent to acquire then and still cost the same now. Again, a great deal.

This only location NOB that compares to our campo is La Jolla Farms; I know because my sister once owned a home there and I spent lots of time at her place when I was younger.

Try renting in La Jolla Farms for $133 a month!

If you wanted an unimproved lot, you could deal directly with the Ejido. For an improved lot, you do need to deal with the present lease-holder. They would simply sign over the lease to you but that action must be witnessed by the Ejido president (Fidel) and Fidel will then issue a new lease in your name.

The Ejido charges 10% of the sales price to transfer ownership, an amount I think that is totally reasonable if you think about it.

Also, unlimited well water is $10 a month and this is in addition to the lease fee but that is cheap compared to what you will pay for water in, say, San Diego or Phoenix!

This is a great place to live and the neighbors all look out for one another. We used to leave our place unattended for weeks at a time and never had a problem. Once I left a door ajar and it blew open in the wind, a neighbor closed it and gave me a call to fill me in and let know that all was OK.

Since then I hired a local to keep an eye on it for me. I call her when we are going there and she goes in and dusts, fluffs the linens, and puts on a pot of coffee so it's waiting for us when we get there.

And, frankly, I don't know why anyone with the opinion that one should not "invest more than they can afford to lose" would want the initial and on-going expense of a fidecomiso, anyway. And besides, that same sentiment would hold true whether you are investing in the stock market, real estate, or baseball cards so it is trite at best.

If you have any specific questions for someone who actually holds a lease there, is a Mexican-American and whose wife is a Mexican citizen, and who speaks and can read Spanish, please do not hesitate to ask.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-11-2010 at 08:10 PM


Wecome to BajaNomad, allroads10. Thanks for the clarifying info.
What is the standard lot size for $133 per month? Are they view lots? I'm not familiar with the place.
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[*] posted on 12-11-2010 at 09:56 PM


A Mexican lease is only as good as the landlord, you are pretty much at their mercy because if you end up in court it will take ten years to sort out. The maximum duration of a Mexican lease is 10 years, so even if you win your case, by the time it goes through the Mexican legal system your lease will have expired.
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Steve&Debby
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[*] posted on 12-11-2010 at 10:20 PM


allroads10 check your U2U
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allroads10
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 09:20 AM


Dennis: The standard lot size is just over 5000 sqft (500sqmts to be exact). The $133 figure is for lots on the cliff that command the best views; as I understand it there are no cliff lots available. Lots on rows 2, 3, and four start at $110 with an annual increase of 10% for the first ten years. (All figures actual; from my lease.)

There are several residents who have been here over twenty years now. They were here when it was truly a trailer camp with no running water, electricity or phones. I crack up when I hear their stories of reading by lamp oil and propane heaters! But they did so because they recognize the uniqueness of the location. We are on a bluff below a mesa with 360 degree views that include the ocean, the river, the mountains, and night lights from Santa Maria. And it is just off the toll road so easy access with a Pemex and Oxxo at the ramp, as well. (Great for late night ice cream runs!)

But this is old Mexico up here--no condos, no HOA, dog-freindly, country setting, dirt roads. I run my quad out of the garage and straight to the beach or river. The Ejido sponsors an annual rodeo with a huge closing night bonfire that is an attraction you have to see to believe.

And the Ejido is always there to help if you need some heavy lifting or jump start or push or someone to change a tire. We have a few single American women who are very comfortable living here alone. If lots here were for sale, I would imagine they would sell for $50,000 to $100,000.

As for the warning some have offered not to build, that would depend on how much comfort you can afford and how small a space you are willing to cram yourself into. There is one home here that is over 10,000 sqft with the best views I have ever seen, including my sister's cliff-side place in LJFs.

And as for the statement that the lease is only as good as the landlord? Probably true for leases with private parties but an Ejido in a corporate-like entity established by the government that is unique in Mexican law. A lease with an ejido is distinctly different than renting from some Jose.

By the way, there is no provision in Mexican ejido law that prohibits or excludes leases in excess of ten years--simply does not exist and standard Mexican contract law has never been adjudicated to apply to ejidos. (Yes, I went to law school.)

And, again, the campo is just one business that Ejido LM has been in for decades here locally.

Comments by some here lead me to believe that they do not fully grasp Mexican contract law in general or ejido law, specifically. Someone once said that one-half of all the money we pay in taxes is wasted but that the problem is figuring out which half.

In that same vein, one half of the "information" posted in forums like this one is wrong--again, the problem is figuring out which half. Good luck with that!:?:
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 09:50 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
Dennis: The standard lot size is just over 5000 sqft (500sqmts to be exact). The $133 figure is for lots on the cliff that command the best views



Large lot for that price.

I think I know where you are if it's on the south side of the river past the toll road bridge.


Quote:
Comments by some here lead me to believe that they do not fully grasp Mexican contract law in general or ejido law, specifically.



Yeah....I would be one of them and why wouldn't I? I've seen the nightmares develop with Ejido land sales and leases and, please, don't try to tell us that we just don't know. We arn't allowed to know.
Contract law? It's hard enough to find an attorney who, in spite of his claims to brilliance, understands the law.
Lawyers who have taken on Ejidos as clients know every dirty trick in the book to negate a business deal after the funds have changed hands. It's become a lawyer speciality.
You'll have a hard sell with the "If you only had the facts" line of reasoning here. It would be best saved for the future waves of tourists out of the states who want to own a little piece of Mother Mexico.

Quote:
In that same vein, one half of the "information" posted in forums like this one is wrong--again, the problem is figuring out which half. Good luck with that!:?:


Half is more than enough.
What is it? Mexicans won't even begin to trust an Ejido in a business deal. Why are we being targeted as the biggest suckers on the block?
Oh, yeah....I know why. It's because we're defensless when it comes to the Ejidos, Mexico's Sacred Cow. What function they serve since the resolution of Agrarian Reform makes no sense other than appeasment of a social group that would be the first to violently rebel.


OK...you got me started, but I'm done with it. Go on Google and sell Ejido land in Croatia. They're perfect customers since they won't have a clue either.
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 10:02 AM


Dennis...

We own lots in the Ejido of San Felipe. Never had an issue. Yet!
Doing business in any country south of us is risky business....that is so true.

I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk. Go a safer route. You are right Dennis.

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by mcfez]




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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 10:14 AM


Any investment in Mexico right now is very risky, ejido or not.

Look at the trouble Nomads are having trying to sell homes from Baja Norte to La Paz. Some have all but walked away or have been trying to sell for 2 years or longer.

So, I have to agree, don't invest thinking you will capture your cost when you are ready to move back to the States. There will come a time when most will have to throw in the towel, usually for health reasons, and hoof it back NOB.





[Edited on 12-13-2010 by tripledigitken]
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 10:23 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk.


That caveat is over-used here, Deno. It's just too simplistic to be realistic.

"Don't have anything in Mexico that you can't afford to lose or walk away from."

It's easy to say from a secure, unmolested point of view, but let the wheels of expropriation start start rolling toward your door and the fatalist point of view will make no sense. The injustice of it all will be the only thing that's left to come to terms with.
Who wants to be victimized, even knowing the possibility exists?
Who wants to walk away from their property, their dream, just because they knew it could happen and it's all just the luck of the draw?

It isn't only the loss of property one would have to deal with....it's also a loss of time when, at our age, an excess of that doesn't exist.

Why would the bully in the school yard take your baseball away from you? Because he can. Doesn't make it palatible, does it.



.


.


[Edited on 12-12-2010 by DENNIS]
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mcfez
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 11:18 AM
It's just too simplistic to be realistic...maybe :-)


Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by mcfez
I wouldn't recommend anyone to build their dream home on Ejido land if you could not afford to lose it. With a limited capital and limited knowledge of "the way things are done" on Ejido ...it's a risk.


That caveat is over-used here, Deno. It's just too simplistic to be realistic.

"Don't have anything in Mexico that you can't afford to lose or walk away from."

It's easy to say from a secure, unmolested point of view, but let the wheels of expropriation start to roll toward your door and the fatalist point of view will make no sense. The injustice of it all will be the only thing that's left to come to terms with.
Who wants to be victimized, even knowing the possibility exists?
Who wants to walk away from their property, their dream, just because they knew it could happen and it's all just the luck of the draw?

It isn't only the loss of property one would have to deal with....it's also a loss of time when, at our age, an excess of that doesn't exist.

Why would the bully in the school yard take your baseball away from you? Because he can. Doesn't make it palatible, does it.


.

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by DENNIS]


Perhaps the difference with me is this : My home down in San Felipe is a vacation home, not a place where I plan to retire too. Lease the land. Build and enjoy. Nothing real expensive. A walk away. ....it's cheaper and less painful than sitting in a Mexican court of law.

If you had build a house, retired in it....why yes...fight like a dirty dog! Buying the land outright, building a dream home...sure the cost is way up there...$100,000 +

My house:
Lot lease buy $8000.00
Little vacation house $ 15000.00
10 years of lease payments. $7,500.00
$30,500 plus chance
Divide by 120 months = $244 per month

So for about $2100.00 a year...I can stay in Baja. I used to pay far more for a staying at fancy hotels yearly in Baja.

Long term...this joint of mine has paid itself off. I have no loss to walk away.

It is this type of thought that let me build a home in Baja and not worry about legal issues. It's not for everyone to think this way...but I have zero worries :-)

My high regards to you Dennis, Deno

[Edited on 12-12-2010 by mcfez]




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allroads10
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 11:37 AM


triple: There is no place in the world where more people are walking away from their properties than in the USA. The number of Americans who have done so in Mexico has to be miniscule in comparison...no numbers in that regard but the number is so big in the USA that it has to be a tiny fraction of that number in Baja.

Dennis: You seem to be implying that somehow expropriation of real property is rampant in Mexico but in terms of sheer numbers it is much more common in the USA. Consider the innumerable government auctions held on courthouse steps every day of the week across the USA where countlesss homes are put on the block day after day after day!

These people are losing their houses for not paying property taxes or bond assessments or for other forms of tax liens. Nowhere else in the world does expropriation of personal real property occur more than in the USA.

In fact, I would argue that there is no such thing as personal real property because governments always retain the right to tax the land and expropriate for back-taxes and imminent domain, as well. You seem to want to make it sound as if Mexico is unique in this regard somehow when that is simply not the case.

mcfez: You wrote that you would recommend a safer route. What would that be exactly? Since I think I can assume you don't mean a lease w/a private land owner, I will conclude that you mean a bank trust. Is that correct? If so, would you be willing to explain your reasoning?

I do, by the way, think that leases on Mexican property held in a bank trust are preferable in some circumstances but that so are leases with private parties and with corporations and ejidos, as well. There is no one answer that is correct in every situation and almost certainly a bank trust is neither necessary nor even preferable for the utilization specified in the original post and for a whole host of reasons.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 12:01 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
Dennis: You seem to be implying that somehow expropriation of real property is rampant in Mexico but in terms of sheer numbers it is much more common in the USA.



I didn't imply that at all. Besides, I'm not talking about the US. I am specifically talking about Baja.
We have to stay focused.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 12:05 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by allroads10
I do, by the way, think that leases on Mexican property held in a bank trust



It's mixed metaphores such as this that cause me to drink. :lol:
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[*] posted on 12-12-2010 at 01:27 PM


allroads10, How can you compare US property ownership with those of the 3rd. world? Get a grip on reality.;D
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