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tehag
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Power of attorney
Anyone had personal experience in transferring title of Mexican property through use of a power of attorney?
The transfer is from an American who can't get to Mex to a Mexican citizen, using a third party with power of attorney. As far as the sexual
orientation of lawyers goes, I have no interest. I am seeking input from someone with actual personal experience using a Mexican power of attorney in
a real estate deal. We have the forms and know where the consulates are.
[Edited on 12-21-2010 by tehag]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tehag
Anyone had personal experience in transferring title of Mexican property through use of a power of attorney? |
Doesn't work. I won't try to explain how and why I know that, but it's just another example of Smoke 'n Mirrors....a common Ejido ruse.
Ask a lawyer. If you find a real one with real answers, and I'm wrong, I'll pay his fee.
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by tehag
Anyone had personal experience in transferring title of Mexican property through use of a power of attorney? |
Doesn't work. I won't try to explain how and why I know that, but it's just another example of Smoke 'n Mirrors....a common Ejido ruse.
Ask a lawyer. If you find a real one with real answers, and I'm wrong, I'll pay his fee. |
Lawyers.....hoars. Sorry....
I would start with a Notary Public.....
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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bajalou
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Lawyers.....hoars. Sorry....
I would start with a Notary Public..... |
??? Mexico doesn't have Notary Publics. They have Notarios which are special lawyers that handle real estate transactions and a few other things.
Quite a bit different.
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And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Lawyers.....hoars. Sorry....
I would start with a Notary Public..... |
??? Mexico doesn't have Notary Publics. They have Notarios which are special lawyers that handle real estate transactions and a few other things.
Quite a bit different. |
Okay.....less Gringo English..it's Notario Publico...Notary Public
A Notario Publico in Mexico may
• be an arbitrator
• be a mediator
• issue judicial opinions
• intervene in judicial proceedings
• ensure that documents such as bylaws of companies, wills, deeds, powers of attorney, real estate purchases and establishments of trusts do not
include any legal inconsistencies
• ensure payment of taxes
• protocolize public deeds
In Mexico, the incorporation of every company, the buying and selling of all types of real estate, the establishment of deeds and wills, the creation
of mortgages, among other transactions, must be protocolized by a Notario Publico.
Bla bla and more bla. Notary public is how my group calls em.
[Edited on 12-21-2010 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mcfez
Lawyers.....hoars. Sorry....
I would start with a Notary Public..... |
Either way. All he wants is a knowledgeable answer to a question.
I know the answer, but I'm no authority.
I have a feeling that there are others on this board who would also like to know [quietly].....perhaps after the fact of their commitment.
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DENNIS
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It just occured to me that I'm assuming tehag is NOT a Mexican national and is confined to Fideicomiso or Corporation.
I'll just continue to assume that unless otherwise told differently.
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Scorpimon
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If you are talking about using an Apostille, I have just went through the process. Both seller and buyer in the US giving Power of Attorney to
different agents in Baja for the purchase of Baja house transferring the Fideicomiso. The process seems to have worked well for me. Had to get the
Apostille twice because of a wrong word.
Ernie
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Loretana
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We transacted the sale of lot in Loreto from a US citizen to us, (US citizens) using an Apostille with no problems. See Alexander, he's done it lots
of times.
The sellers had their Apostille validated in the state of Washington, and ours was done in Oregon.
Alexander Real Estate and Investments
www.loretorealty.com
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613-104-3625 cell
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DENNIS
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You all can get as involved as you see fit with Apostiles or whatever, but for a foreigner, control of that property won't be realized without getting
a Fide or buying through your Corporation. Don't kid yourselves or be misled...there's no other way around it.
The scam has been alive for decades here that a Power of Attorney is a legal substitute for the Fide. It isn't. It's a meaningless instrument for I
don't know what if not only to appease a buyer with false peace of mind in a land purchase.
Wait until you have to show that Power of Attorney to a judge in a land dispute. He'll laugh you out of the room.
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woody with a view
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that's what we love about Dennis. always low key, just the facts.....
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
that's what we love about Dennis. always low key, just the facts..... |
Can't talk. I'm hyperventilating.
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toneart
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Dennis is absolutely correct!
Advice I would give to Tehag:
You need to be there...present all during the transaction.
Working through third party Power of Attorneys with apostles and through consulates will not serve you. They will assist, however, in transferring
your money to someone else. When the fit hits the shan, you have no protection.
All legal transactions are handled by and through Notarios. You can pay an attorney to look it over, but that is very iffy. It depends on the
attorney. In my opinion, that is just another way to throw money down a rat hole.
You need a fideicomiso or to be set up as a Mexican Corporation, and an FM3 or FM2. You can buy the property without those immigration documents but,
again, you have no protection without it when the fit hits the shan.
You supposedly can get a clear title issued by an Ejido, but it needs to be approved by the whole Ejido, not an individual. I don't really know the
details of that as to the mechanics of the transaction or how secure the title would be if it ever went to court.
Mexico if full of nice people but vested trust is not their strong suit. 
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mcfez
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
Dennis is absolutely correct!
Advice I would give to Tehag:
You need to be there...present all during the transaction.
Working through third party Power of Attorneys with apostles and through consulates will not serve you. They will assist, however, in transferring
your money to someone else. When the fit hits the shan, you have no protection.
All legal transactions are handled by and through Notarios. You can pay an attorney to look it over, but that is very iffy. It depends on the
attorney. In my opinion, that is just another way to throw money down a rat hole.
You need a fideicomiso or to be set up as a Mexican Corporation, and an FM3 or FM2. You can buy the property without those immigration documents but,
again, you have no protection without it when the fit hits the shan.
You supposedly can get a clear title issued by an Ejido, but it needs to be approved by the whole Ejido, not an individual. I don't really know the
details of that as to the mechanics of the transaction or how secure the title would be if it ever went to court.
Mexico if full of nice people but vested trust is not their strong suit. |
.....You supposedly can get a clear title issued by an Ejido, but it needs to be approved by the whole Ejido, not an individual.
Two witnesses I believe.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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MitchMan
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Power of Attorney? If you are talking about an agent acting on your behalf at the actual closing so that you don't have to be there, sure, I've heard
of many people having used one with success. BUT, I agree with others who are advising you to BE THERE instead of using an agent that you authorize
via a Power of Attorney. In Mexico, it is wise not to trust anyone, especially when it comes to money, except when you absolutely have no other
choice.
[Edited on 12-21-2010 by MitchMan]
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gnukid
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no
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DENNIS
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The original question, I believe, asked if a Power of Attorney could be considered adaquate to assume control over property in lieu of a Fideicomiso
or purchase through a corporation. That is what I extrapolated from the question.
As I mentioned, this method has not been uncommon in the past and is still being used with the uninformed to this day.
Again, I say no, it cannot.
Using Powers of Attorney, Apostiles or whatever else comes to mind as tools toward the end of ownership through a bank trust or corporation has
nothing to do with tehag's question. At least, that's how I see it.
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tehag
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PA
Wow! Run with it guys.
A US citizen is transferring to a Mexican citizen a piece of fondo-legal real estate which has never been part of an ejido and is in trust with a
valid fidiecomiso. The US owner of the trust is unable to go to the signing. He wants to appoint an agent to do the signing in his stead. I know the
Mexican consulate has an in-house notario for just this sort of work. I know it is legal. I know it has been done. He has the forms and paperwork.
I asked for info about first-hand experience and got some, thank you.
Certainty is the child of ignorance, knowledge is the mother of doubt. Question everything!
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oladulce
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Yes Tehag, we've used a power of attorney for real estate transactions 3 times when selling property and on 2 occasions when purchasing property.
Before retiring, it wasn't always possible to get down to Mexico when it was time to sign.
On all occasions the power of attorney document was drawn up by the Notario who was handling the property transfer. In each case the Notario assigned
another attorney in his office to be our signatory, assuming the Notario himself can't sign for you because of a conflict of interest.
There are a few ways to accomplish a Mexican "Poder Especial":
1. Option A- The Notario drafts the "Poder Especial" document and you go to his office and sign it in front of him. We've done this in the beginning
of a property sale when we wouldn't be able to make it back for the final signing of the title transfer months, (or 2 years later in one instance).
1. Option B- The Notario faxes or emails the "Poder Especial" to you with the specifics of the real estate transaction. A couple of times we couldn't
get to La Paz to that specific Notario's office, so once we drove from So. CA to Tecate and signed the POA in front of the Tecate Notario then DHL'd
it to La Paz. Another time we took the POA to the Notario in Cd Constitucion to sign then put it on the bus to La Paz via BajaPak.
2. Option A - Get the POA from the Notario. (fax or emailed)
- Sign in front of a US notary public.
- Send the doc to county clerk for the county the notary is
located in for "Authentification" of the notary.
- Send the doc to the Secretary of state for the Apostille.
- FedEX/UPS or somehow ship the orginal doc with all the
stamps to the Mexican Notario.
* This method takes about 3 wks due to all the mailing
back and forth.
2. Option B - Get the POA from the Notario (fax or emailed)
- Go to San Diego county offices (downtown by the harbor)
- Sign the doc at the notary public in the courthouse building.
- Go downstairs to the county clerk's office to have the notary's
credentials authenticated.
- Leave your car in the county parking lot and walk a mile to
the California building and get the Apostille at the
Secretary of State office.
- Mail the doc to Mexico Notario.
* This method can be accomplished in one day.
2. Option C - One time the notary public at the San Diego county building would not sign the Mexican Power of Attorney because it was in Spanish and
she wasn't "comfortable". We walked a couple of block in to downtown SD and had the doc notarized by a Notary public at a Mail Box etc-type place,
then walked back to the county courthouse to the clerk's office and had that notary's signature authenticated. Then go to the CA building and the
steps are the same.
Since then, we don't get the notary public signature at the county courthouse if the document is in Spanish since they seem to be a little pickier.
Any SD (or whatever county they are located in) will do, as long as you go to the same county clerk.
U2u if you or your friend would like more info.
We learned all this over the years after alot of driving around and trial and error and I'd be happy to help .
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DENNIS
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Thanks, tehag...........it's amazing what a few details will do to a request for info.
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