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David K
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Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Let's hope if they use better technology than that and that nothing bad happens to spoil things below the mine!
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Not emotional hysteria most of the time....
The real question is this: is there a watch group or Mexican office (that is not corrupted by bribes) to over see this operation? Even then...it's not
a 100% safe guard.
Mining IS a very dangerous proposition for the area's population...if they live nearby it's air and water flow systems. I truly understand the
concerns.
All mines pollute. For example:
The Queenstake's Jerritt Canyon Mine in northern Nevada may have released as much as 6,000-8,000 pounds of mercury air pollution in 2005 and 2006, yet
it reported only 300-400 pounds to state and federal agencies for those years.
In the USA!
This has nothing to do with hugging a tree....but rather hugging a dead child poisoned from chemicals. A private independent air and water quality
testing company should be employed at these mining operations.
In the US....this system failed too... by false reporting:
The Emergency Planning and Community Right to Know Act (EPCRA) was established to ensure that the public has access to important information on the
toxic and hazardous materials released near their community. Under the law, mining operations are required to submit an annual toxic chemical release
report to the Environmental Protection Agency, which is then made available to the public through its Toxic Release Inventory.
[Edited on 12-20-2010 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Yes DK, the technology exists to more efficiently extract, 200 people can now do as much damage to the environment as took 20000 in the 19th century.
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MODERN GOLD EXTRACTION METHODS:
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency lists several alternatives to cyanide, including starch and sulfur dioxide. In 1999, 16 of 18 leading U.S.
zinc mines and 11 of 15 leading U.S. copper mines did not use cyanide.
For gold and silver extraction, the Haber Gold Process (HGP) has been proposed as a possible alternative. HGP has undergone preliminary and follow-up
testing by mining engineering groups, which have concluded that HGP results in more gold recovery over a shorter period of time than the
cyanide-leaching processes, with a cost comparable to, or less than, cyanide-leaching. In addition, HGP passed the California Department of Health
Services Acute Aquatic Toxicity Bioassay test, which tests the toxicity of a substance on wildlife. These claims are made by the Haber Inc. web site
and, although independent testing of HGP has been done, there are no public documents that can verify these claims.
In addition, the cyanide-free biocatalyzed leaching process from YES Technologies uses a bisufide-leaching agent which is 200 times less toxic than
cyanide. Preliminary test results indicate chemical reagent costs associated with this process could be 80% lower than cyanide.
This page was last updated on February 24, 2004.
Bob Durrell
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mcfez
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HGP has undergone preliminary and follow-up testing by mining engineering groups......
Poor countries will suffer from mining operations.
The Baja community has a legit gripe about this....aside from all the assurances from the mine operators to the Mexican Govt. That's all I am saying.
Don't be calling these town folks tree huggers, they live there...we dont!
Yes...mining is needed, absolutely. Better controls are in need.
Look at Canada:
http://www.minesandcommunities.org/article.php?a=9798
Feds launch website for mining, oil-and-gas companies operating abroad
Canadian Press
14 January 2009
OTTAWA - The federal government has launched a website aimed at helping Canadian mining and oil-and-gas companies meet their "social and environmental
responsibilities" while operating abroad.
Feds failing to police mining companies: Critics
By PETER ZIMONJIC, Parliamentary Bureau
13 January 2010
OTTAWA - A website unveiled by the feds to help mining companies police themselves while operating abroad was slammed by critics as a toothless
attempt to get corporations to be good corporate citizens.
This is a advanced nation...and they are waist deep in do do!
What happens in a poor country?
[Edited on 12-20-2010 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yes, local concern is warranted IF these issues were not already addressed by the Canadians... I get the feeling that sometimes people just want to
keep things the way they found it and be damned with the needs of anyone else on the planet after them.
I don't want needless destruction of the environment any more than anyone else. Let's just base any opposition on facts!
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yes, local concern is warranted IF these issues were not already addressed by the Canadians... I get the feeling that sometimes people just want to
keep things the way they found it and be damned with the needs of anyone else on the planet after them.
I don't want needless destruction of the environment any more than anyone else. Let's just base any opposition on facts! |
....people just want to keep things the way they found it"
BN had a post -3-5 years ago from some guy who was complaining that the shoreline dunes were bout to go into development. He didnt want this. he didnt
want that. I went back and forth with him as well as Jr (I think) and others. I finally asked him if he lived in this same area...he said yes.
Well I then asked him.....what da hell was under you house before it was built?
I am for development. Responsible development...which doesnt really happen :-) To leave the land naked as it was a 1000 years ago...well.....I dont
like camping every night in my caveman suit!
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Down that way... water is more important than GOLD !!!!
Here is a link which supports NOT having an open pit gold mine... some interesting thoughts and other links on the site and "open pit gold mining"...
It's in Spanish also... if you prefer...
http://tinyurl.com/2edmykv
[Edited on 12-20-2010 by wessongroup]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
Yes DK, the technology exists to more efficiently extract, 200 people can now do as much damage to the environment as took 20000 in the 19th century.
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MODERN GOLD EXTRACTION METHODS:
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency lists several alternatives to cyanide, including starch and sulfur dioxide. In 1999, 16 of 18 leading U.S.
zinc mines and 11 of 15 leading U.S. copper mines did not use cyanide.
For gold and silver extraction, the Haber Gold Process (HGP) has been proposed as a possible alternative. HGP has undergone preliminary and follow-up
testing by mining engineering groups, which have concluded that HGP results in more gold recovery over a shorter period of time than the
cyanide-leaching processes, with a cost comparable to, or less than, cyanide-leaching. In addition, HGP passed the California Department of Health
Services Acute Aquatic Toxicity Bioassay test, which tests the toxicity of a substance on wildlife. These claims are made by the Haber Inc. web site
and, although independent testing of HGP has been done, there are no public documents that can verify these claims.
In addition, the cyanide-free biocatalyzed leaching process from YES Technologies uses a bisufide-leaching agent which is 200 times less toxic than
cyanide. Preliminary test results indicate chemical reagent costs associated with this process could be 80% lower than cyanide.
This page was last updated on February 24, 2004. |
I believe Vista's permit request is for cyanide leach pit
mining.
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20371
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by El Jefe
Here is the email going around. Might be a little over-stated.
I have to wonder what the real science is on this subject.
Date: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Subject: Update from the the Mine experts...this is SEROUS!!
To: MLS members <intramls@flexmail.flexmls.co
I attended the meeting today that discussed the proposed mine in
Sierra de La Laguna biosphere reserve. This mine proposal is
closer to an approval than the public is aware. I also do not
believe that anyone is aware of just how detrimental this will be
to our community. Here are a few facts taken from the meeting:
-50-80 tons of explosives will be used EVERY DAY. = dust in the
air, spreading dangerous chemicals over the 200 km radius of the
site which includes all of Los Cabos. (Cabo San Lucas is 80 kms
away from the proposed site). The dangerous chemicals include
the following: Cyanide, Arsenic, Heavy Metals and Radioactive
Molecules. So we start with the air we breathe (and our animals,
livestock and plants.)
-The explosives will also cause tremors which will mimic
earthquakes on a regular basis. Think that might scare a few
tourists away?
-The explosives will also cause dust clouds that will effect our
weather. Not so many sunny days around here.
-The treatments and chemicals used (listed above) will flow
downhill, as the site is approx. 200 meters above sea level. It
will contaminate every aquifer/water table, well, and in turn
eventually trickle into all of our bays, including Cabo san Lucas
Bay.
-These heavy metals, arsenic, cyanide and radioactive molecules
will be present in our drinking water and air. Marine life will
also be effected and shore fishing will become fishing for
poisoned food.
-The organic community of Todos Santos where most of our organic
food comes from will IMMEDIATELY lose it's organic certification,
the food will become poisonous and all these farms will be shut
down. This will result in up to 10,000 jobs lost. In turn these
people who were making a clean healthy living will have to turn
to the mine, and work with poisonous chemicals and in dangerous
conditions instead. What an alternative!!
-The cases of cancer in this area will increase 50-fold. Yes, 50x
more cases of cancer!! As well as cardiovascular disease, birth
defects, liver and kidney failure etc.
-Tourism will decrease
-Property values will decrease
-OUR OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE WILL DECREASE!
In truth, they might as well start nuclear testing in the area at
the same time, the effects here are going to be the same. That
is not a joke.
What will be our alternative for food, air and water if
everything in our area is polluted with strong poisons. We will
all be effected by this if it is approved of. Don't wake up once
the damage is done and it is too late!! This is the most
important issue facing us in all of Los Cabos' history. Pass
this message on to everyone, we need to band together as a
community and make our voices heard. Everyone is asleep at the
moment and the powers (that are the only ones that stand to gain)
are making moves to get this mine approved and NOBODY even knows
about it. This is serious people and there is no reversing this
if it happens. |
me thinks you exagerate a wee bit
| Quote: | Originally posted by john68
Vista Gold, the operator of the proposed Concordia mine, has a world-wide reputation as a first-class company. Vista has mines in Australia, Idaho,
California and elsewhere. None of these mines has a history of environmental problems.
The mine will employ about 200 locals and the local economy badly needs these jobs. Vista has brought broadband internet to El Triunfo and San
Antonio to enable it to communicate with its employees who live there; the broadband is available to all the residents at no cost.
Vista's environmental and water studies indicate that the mine can be operated responsibly, with no harm to the environment.
The local Mexican community overwhelmingly supports this mine. I hope the gringo community will consider the mine carefully and give it a fair
hearing. |
me thinks you have a work or biz relationship with vista.
| Quote: | Originally posted by john68
Vista Gold, the operator of the proposed Concordia mine, has a world-wide reputation as a first-class company. Vista has mines in Australia, Idaho,
California and elsewhere. None of these mines has a history of environmental problems.
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where do you get your info on reputation of vista? do you really think people are so gullible to think "none of these mines has a history of
environmental problems?" me thinks your answer is yes
[Edited on 12-21-2010 by mtgoat666]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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Or maybe owns Vista stock.
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tiotomasbcs
Super Nomad
Posts: 1837
Registered: 7-30-2007
Location: El Pescadero
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Over and over again. British Petroleum did all they could do to prevent the Gulf Tragedy?! Of course, Haliburton was watching over the Safety
regulations/operations!! Just let the wolf watch over the Henhouse. When I hear words like " I hope" it makes me wonder if we learn anything from
History or are just mislead by the Military- Industrial Complex? Undeveloped countries are always exploited by oil companies, fruit companies, etc.
and then abandoned leaving the mess behind! Water is the most precious mineral not gold!  Tio
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john68
Nomad
Posts: 207
Registered: 7-9-2006
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There are responsible and irresponsible companies in every business. Vista is a public company and files reports with the SEC. Take a look at the
company's SEC filings on the EDGAR system. From my reading of the most recent form 10-K, Vista has always operated in a responsible manner and I can
find no evidence of their creating an environmental mess.
Vista proposes to use Kemix carbon-in-pulp leaching on the Concordia mine. I'm not an engineer or a chemist, but I don't think that's a cyanide
process. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
If you have evidence of Vista or its management operating recklessly or irresponsibly, let's hear it. Otherwise, let's give them a break.
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El Jefe
Super Nomad
Posts: 1027
Registered: 10-27-2003
Location: South East Cape
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"me thinks you exagerate a wee bit"
Oh, ya think?
I don't know who wrote the email that went out to MLS members and was then forwarded on to me and who knows who. But it is the kind of end of the
world stuff that turns many people off to the message. I can see how bad things could happen as a result of this project going forward, but it is not
my decision to make, and anyway, I am woefully uninformed as to the dangers and/or benefits of gold mining. So, I'm not gonna get worked up one way or
another. There are simply too many other things to care about in this world.
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
No b-tchin\' in the Baja.
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baja Steve
Nomad
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Bend, or
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Hey guys while everyone is talking about all this open pit mining has anyone gone around to see what is really going on. The companies are keeping
everyone’s attention on open pit but what is happening is work on the old tunnel mines. I was NW of San Antonio today and watched a mining company
extracting water out of old tunnel mines and they have also brought big power lines to the mining site
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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mcfez your article about Canada has nothing to do with mining in Canada, what it is about is making sure mining companies are enviormentally
responsible when mining in
poor nations.
R
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by john68
There are responsible and irresponsible companies in every business. Vista is a public company and files reports with the SEC. Take a look at the
company's SEC filings on the EDGAR system. From my reading of the most recent form 10-K, Vista has always operated in a responsible manner and I can
find no evidence of their creating an environmental mess.
Vista proposes to use Kemix carbon-in-pulp leaching on the Concordia mine. I'm not an engineer or a chemist, but I don't think that's a cyanide
process. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
If you have evidence of Vista or its management operating recklessly or irresponsibly, let's hear it. Otherwise, let's give them a break.
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Wow SEC filings... now that's something to hang your hat on ... ask Leman Bros... et al... on the last go around with the "There are responsible and
irresponsible companies in every business."
As for a this enitiy.. .they know exactly what there are doing in there process of submittal and rejection... followed by another "report" which will
address issues found to be to be lacking
I don't recall see Kemix carbon-in-pulp leaching being used... in the first report submitted... I may be wrong..
Interesting to see Vista's new approach, this time to be based from... working from inside Mexico .. from downtown so to speak ... it would appear
Vista learned quite a bit from the first reports submission and along with its permit application
This is a normal process for any operation which will have significant impact on the environment...... and should not be shocking to any mining
company, certainly not to one mining internationally.
I do not know anything about the historical mining operations of Vista and/or individuals who own and "run" Vista currently ...
Do all of their operations in country (as they appear to be base out of CO) and in all other countries fall under Vista's "direct control" which could
allow them to classified as the "owner and/or operator" of the mining operations?
Don't know all that much about Kemix carbon-in-pulp leaching, but it would appear to be a step forward in the reduction of some of the problems
associated with this one process in production of gold.. that is good to hear...
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ricardo
mcfez your article about Canada has nothing to do with mining in Canada, what it is about is making sure mining companies are enviormentally
responsible when mining in
poor nations.
R |
Oh....okay 
Were you wearing your glasses while reading perhaps?
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Ricardo
Nomad
Posts: 139
Registered: 12-9-2004
Location: Telkwa
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It was the comment
"This is a advanced nation...and they are waist deep in do do!
What happens in a poor country?"
That had me confused, I assumed you were refering to the do do being in Canada. I now assume you meant in the 3rd world country where they are mining.
R
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