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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Wow, it is more important to try and discredit the way I am asking about this then to provide the correct answer on what type of visa is required to
have legal ability to own property in Mexico that you live in.
Long Legs, so you also have property and live in La Paz and only have a tourist card... and that is fine to the best of your knowledge?
I refer to Nomads in Mexico, who believes in abiding by migra law and values his property enough to follow the law... I personally know some who have
posted about it here... and maybe more, who I haven't talked to about it or recall a post from.
I pursue this because unlike many, I actually think Nomad is a place to get information and not just for laughs or power tripping. The information
should be truthful and the most accurate possible... otherwise it is either useless or harmful.
I choose to help Nomads (and lurkers) and not to harm them.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Again... I never said anyone couldn't buy land without an FM-3. That is just silly... anyone in Mexico will take a gringo's money.. gladly! Here, too!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thank you Kate!
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Wow, it is more important to try and discredit the way I am asking about this then to provide the correct answer on what type of visa is required to
have legal ability to own property in Mexico that you live in.
Long Legs, so you also have property and live in La Paz and only have a tourist card... and that is fine to the best of your knowledge?
I refer to Nomads in Mexico, who believes in abiding by migra law and values his property enough to follow the law... I personally know some who have
posted about it here... and maybe more, who I haven't talked to about it or recall a post from.
I pursue this because unlike many, I actually think Nomad is a place to get information and not just for laughs or power tripping. The information
should be truthful and the most accurate possible... otherwise it is either useless or harmful.
I choose to help Nomads (and lurkers) and not to harm them. |
Your question in this post caused me to go back & check the post I knew (thought, as it turned out) I'd provided my personal experience in....only
to discover that I must have gotten overzealous in my cleaning up of my post prior to hitting the post button & accidentally deleted a large
portion of my own response. In an effort to maintain flow, I edited my original
post to reflect the missing portion.
That said, please address the questions & issues specifically mentioned rather than attempting turn the tables & make me a "bad guy"! Please
stop playing the "Oh pity me, I'm getting picked on again!" card.
You see DK, I also feel strongly that Baja Nomad is a valuable tool "to get information and not just for laughs or power tripping." I sincerely
believe that what you perceive as "power tripping" is in all honesty my attempt at keeping "The information should be truthful and the most accurate
possible... otherwise it is either useless or harmful." Why should you be held to any different standards than anyone else on this board? When you
make statements which you attribute to another member, you ought to be held accountable for quoting their actual words, rather than paraphrasing what
you thing they might have meant. I asked you to please show where bajagrouper posted the words you attributed to him. You chose to ignore my
requests. If you pass on rumors & unfounded speculation & assumptions, then you ought to be held accountable for what you post. You chose to
ignore all the questions I asked you. You ignored or challenged others posters who gave information on their firsthand personal experiences &
knowledge.
My bottom line is that....IMO....when you post erroneous information, you are doing exactly what you say you're trying to prevent...."otherwise it is
either useless or harmful....." Please read the words I actually use, not what you assume I meant to say. In case you haven't noticed, I'm a
straight-forward call a spade-a-spade kinda person. You may not like my straight-forward style, but I'm rarely told that my choice of words was
unclear.
Because of your experiences, you address everything Baja from a tourist vantage point. Please accept that there is a huge difference in how the many
full-time Baja residents view things based on their firsthand knowledge & actual experiences. Laws, statutes & actual firsthand experience
from people I trust & respect carry much more weight with me personally, than speculation or someones ex-wife's second-cousin, twice removed
thinks maybe....just as I suspect it does with you. <<< That's an honest factual observation, in no way meant to be taken as "power
tripping"!
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longlegsinlapaz
Super Nomad
Posts: 1685
Registered: 11-18-2005
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
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MorKate, thank you for taking the time to track down the actual legalese & more so for taking the time to translate it!!! I had
faith that somebody would eventually find the wherewithal to dig it up!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Sure... I know... you are here to make sure I am not posting junk... go ahead, but at least check those others that you don't have any beef with.
Honestly, I don't know where our pathes crossed up, but we never met, yet have some of the same friends in Baja... so can't we just try and understand
tyhat we both want the same thing?
I am still pretty sure an FMM holder doesn't have as much protection over property he buys and lives on as an FM-3 holder... Because if you buy a
place in Mexico, you are not a tourist on vacation anymore. You are a home owner and a part (or full) time resident in Mexico... leaving property
behind if and when you go north for part of the year.
Can you hand money over to someone and buy what they sell? YES
Can you do business in Mexico because a Tourist Card makes you legal in Mexico? YES
Does buying a home and living there change your status from TOURIST (FMM) to RESIDENT (FM-3 or 2)? ... YES!
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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DK, It appears you still do not understand, I will no longer try to convince you that as long as one is leagle( FMM,FM3 or FM2) in the country they
can buy and hold property, as long as the Dept. of Foreign Affairs give you the ok you have all the rights as a Mexican...
David you will always enter Mexico with an FMM, I wonder if you will surrender it each time you return to the USA like it instructs you to do?
I hear the whales song
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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FMM or FM-3
We obtained our FM-3's beacuse after we purchased our house we became part-time residents, not tourists.
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Riom
Nomad
Posts: 492
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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It appears the FMM gives more rights than the FM-T used to. Look at the tiny print at the end of the bottom left of the FMM form.
It says "The holder of this document enjoys, without any discrimination whatsoever, the guarantees granted by the political
constitution of the United Mexican States, likewise, with the exception of the Transmigrant, he has the right to aquire fixed or variable income
securities and make bank deposits, as well as aquire urban real estate and real rights on same, with the
restrictions set forth in Article 27 of the Constitution."
A Transmigrant is somebody from for example Nicaragua who has a transit visa, not a Tourist. The rights above on the FMM do apply to mere tourists
(as well as various other categories the FMM can be issued for).
In the real world, banks and possibly notaries are going to be asking for FM-3's for a while yet, as that's what they've been used to, but it's quite
clear an FMM is (now) all that is needed.
[Edited on 2011-1-11 by Riom]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Riom
It appears the FMM gives more rights than the FM-T used to. Look at the tiny print at the end of the bottom left of the FMM form.
It says "The holder of this document enjoys, without any discrimination whatsoever, the guarantees granted by the political
constitution of the United Mexican States, likewise, with the exception of the Transmigrant, he has the right to aquire fixed or variable income
securities and make bank deposits, as well as aquire urban real estate and real rights on same, with the
restrictions set forth in Article 27 of the Constitution."
A Transmigrant is somebody from for example Nicaragua who has a transit visa, not a Tourist. The rights above on the FMM do apply to mere tourists
(as well as various other categories the FMM can be issued for).
In the real world, banks and possibly notaries are going to be asking for FM-3's for a while yet, as that's what they've been used to, but it's quite
clear an FMM is (now) all that is needed.
[Edited on 2011-1-11 by Riom] |
Big thanks Riom for taking the time to post this!!!
Great news... and thank you BajaGrouper for insisting we can act like residents in Mexico on a tourist card... I think I see your point and feel so
lucky to not need to go through all the crap and bureaucracy all the other poor Nomads did to honor the law of Mexico (as it existed before the FMM).
I still don't get how you did it legally before the FMM?
Now, can I also work in Mexico on the FMM?  
[Edited on 1-11-2011 by David K]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
We obtained our FM-3's beacuse after we purchased our house we became part-time residents, not tourists. |
Gee willykers bajaguy... didn't you understand bajagrouper here...? You are sounding like me, before bajagrouper took the time to show me the way!
Tourists are now the same as part time residents!! 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajagrouper
DK, It appears you still do not understand, I will no longer try to convince you that as long as one is leagle( FMM,FM3 or FM2) in the country they
can buy and hold property, as long as the Dept. of Foreign Affairs give you the ok you have all the rights as a Mexican...
David you will always enter Mexico with an FMM, I wonder if you will surrender it each time you return to the USA like it instructs you to do?
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If I surrender it, then what would happen to my newly aquired property in Mexico...? I feel better holding on to my legal document for the entire 180
days... I mean what if I cross at Tecate or any place there isn't an open bank when I go back to my Baja home?
(do I hear an admission that one would need an FM-3 to maintain property rights, yet?)
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Da vid, you write:
"If I surrender it, then what would happen to my newly aquired property in Mexico...?"
You probably can't afford it....
I hear the whales song
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maspacifico
Nomad
Posts: 317
Registered: 4-22-2008
Member Is Offline
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David....Property is held in your name by the fideocomiso.....that legal entity stays in Mexico no matter where you are or what kind of (legal)
immigration status you have. The new FMM seems to clarify that. If I didn't live here I wouldn't dream of going through the everchanging FM3/2 mess.
Thanks for the irrigation advice by the way!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65315
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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maspacifico, No problema amigo...
bajagrouper, yes you are correct... I am only trying to get at the facts here... and I use examples to either clairify or bring out more.
I am amazed at the FM-3/2 holders that just sitting back and excepting your statements that to own a home and live in it in Mexico can all now be
legally done on a tourist card. If you do a Nomad search, you will see miles and miles of posts on getting the FM-3 (and not for employment purposes).
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13050
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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You can open a bank account at Bancomer with just a FMM and purchase land. Perhaps the difference is if you live here or just visit your place like a
tourist from time to time which LOTS of people do.
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
Member Is Offline
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Bank account available with just an fmm. I did
not know that. Come to think of it, back in
the day, I seem to remember Gringos getting
those high rate timed deposits in Mex Banks,
when the inflation was high
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Sorry folks but I spent an entire morning with Lic. Ismael Gutierrez INM about this issue. He first telephoned Morelia to the Delagado Federal INM and
then they telephoned INM in Mexico City. What I was told came from the horse's - mouth and was recited chapter and verse.
There is POSITIVELY NO 180-day time "limit" on the FMM. The reason that the FMM was introduced is to eliminate four other FM forms that were used for
diplomats, education, FMN (work 30-day permiso) and transmigrotoria purposes. The same form is now used for everything.
The issue of "checking out" seems to be a little unclear which means different migra offices may interpet what the "correct way" is supposed to mean.
Technically the FMM is supposed to be multiple entry.
I would retain the FMM and car permit (if in possesion of) and then let the Aduaneros deal with things when you return and check you out at customs.
As the immigration officers were explaining things to me I was reading the law regarding the FMM right out of the handbook. There is absolutely no
time limit and Mexico City said there was no discussion going on to implement such a provision.
Thank You
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
Member Is Offline
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That's very interesting DavidE.
The application mentions a 180 day time limit several times for many classes of visitors.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
I am still pretty sure an FMM holder doesn't have as much protection over property he buys and lives on as an FM-3 holder... Because if you buy a
place in Mexico, you are not a tourist on vacation anymore. You are a home owner and a part (or full) time resident in Mexico... leaving property
behind if and when you go north for part of the year.
Does buying a home and living there change your status from TOURIST (FMM) to RESIDENT (FM-3 or 2)? ... YES! |
Does buying a home and vacationing there for 2 or 3 weeks a year make you a tourist? YES.
And you are "pretty sure" about the the differance between the FMM and FM-3 ?
Can I take that to the bank?
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