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Bajatripper
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A Pet Peeve of Mine
Whenever I watch an American program on TV that has subtitles in Spanish, I can't help but read along as I listen to see how close they come in their
translations. One thing that I've noticed with a certain amount of awe is the consistency with which translators use "secundaria" (either "junior high
school" or "middle school," in the US, depending on where you attended) to signify "high school." I can't help but wonder what people watching think;
the impression given is that our students are either really well-developed ("probably too many hormones in their milk") or that all US students have
been held back a few grades.
I know, I know, it's petty and nothing to get worked up over. But I just can't help myself. They get this wrong in about 99.9 percent of the time (I
think I've seen "preparatoria" (high school) used correctly twice in my 9 years here.
Either only one person is doing all of the translating, or it's a conspiracy!
There, I feel a little better now!
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woody with a view
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i suggest you not watch if it makes you squimish!
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
i suggest you not watch if it makes you squimish! |
"Squimish!"? Not hardly!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
"Squimish!"? Not hardly! |
He meant squeeeeeemish, I'm sure.
At least...I think I'm sure.
Actually...I'm not sure about nuthin.
Why do you care?
Why do I care?
Oh....I don't.
Never mind.
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jenny.navarrette
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
They get this wrong in about 99.9 percent of the time (I think I've seen "preparatoria" (high school) used correctly twice in my 9 years here.!
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No, they have it correct. You have it wrong. In México, mandatory basic education is kindergarten, primaria and secundaria. Primaria is 6 years and
secundaria is 3 years. Preparatoria, which is the last 3 years equivalent in subject matter to North American high school, is not mandatory. In fact,
they have to pass an entrance exam to go to preparatoria. So the Mexicans translate "high school" as secundaria because they are both the last three
years of mandatory basic education.
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fishabductor
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
In México, mandatory basic education is kindergarten, primaria and secundaria. Primaria is 6 years and secundaria is 3 years. Preparatoria, which is
the last 3 years equivalent in subject matter to North American high school, is not mandatory. In fact, they have to pass an entrance exam to go to
preparatoria. So the Mexicans translate "high school" as secundaria because they are both the last three years of mandatory basic education.
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I 2nd this, very few go to HS. It is also somewhat expensive to go to HS from what I hear.
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sancho
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
I know, I know, it's petty and nothing to get worked up over. But I just can't help myself.
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That part of your post I get. I've tried to learn
a little Espanol thru TV. Anyone viewed the popular
new Spanish TV show, La Reina del Sur, about some
Narco Female Smuggler Type?
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woody with a view
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how about "shovel del ocho"? everytime my wife gets outed as Peruana the mexicans NOB ask about "el shovel"
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BajaNomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woody with a view
how about "shovel del ocho" |
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Pescador
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishabductor
| Quote: | Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
In México, mandatory basic education is kindergarten, primaria and secundaria. Primaria is 6 years and secundaria is 3 years. Preparatoria, which is
the last 3 years equivalent in subject matter to North American high school, is not mandatory. In fact, they have to pass an entrance exam to go to
preparatoria. So the Mexicans translate "high school" as secundaria because they are both the last three years of mandatory basic education.
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I 2nd this, very few go to HS. It is also somewhat expensive to go to HS from what I hear. |
It is pretty expensive, relatively, to go to Prepatoria with tuition, books, uniforms, and if you are not close to the school, you also have to pay
for transportation. It is interesting to note that the students and teachers are pretty motivated by Prepatoria and the quality of education goes way
up from the level of "Public School".
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
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No, they have it correct. You have it wrong. In México, mandatory basic education is kindergarten, primaria and secundaria. Primaria is 6 years and
secundaria is 3 years. Preparatoria, which is the last 3 years equivalent in subject matter to North American high school, |
Having attended public schools in Mexico for some time during my youth, I'm well aware of how they count their grades down here.
I wasn't commenting on what parts of the Mexican school system are mandatory and which ones are not, I was only focusing on grade levels.
To me: six grades of primaria, three years of secundaria and three years of preparatoria seems an awful lot like six years of elementary school, three
years of junior high school/middle school and three years of high school. No, make that identical.
And then, there it the fact that after preparatoria AND high school, everyone goes to...UNIVERSITIES, which tends to support my end of the argument.
So, where, exactly, am I wrong here? It might prove relevant to the discussion to know where you attended school.
In the Philippines, at the end of the US colonial period in 1946, Americans left behind their 12-grade school system. In the interveening years, the
Filipino government decided that they didn't need two of those twelve years, so they omitted them. It is my understanding that they still consider
themselves to have received a 12 year education, only somehow compressed into ten years. So I suppose your logic isn't all that uncommon, I just have
a hard time understanding it.
But it's just a pet peeve, my pet peeve, and I will continue to cringe every time I hear it, regardless of how you choose to interpret the Mexican
school system.
[Edited on 3-28-2011 by Bajatripper]
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
students and teachers are pretty motivated by Prepatoria and the quality of education goes way up from the level of "Public School".
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You are absolutely right on this. My eldest boy starts the preparatoria in the coming school year and right now we're going through the entrance
process and getting an idea of the cost of it down here. I hope my young student understands that he isn't going to school to hang out with his
friends anymore. I'll give him two quarters of that, and then I'll take him down to Walmart, they could use a good bagger
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MrBillM
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Peevish Cringing ?
CRINGE EVERY Time ?
Now, THAT is Strange.
Not being a frequent Cringer, cowering or fawning over trivia, I have to wonder What happens when something significant occurs.
It must be amazing to see.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
CRINGE EVERY Time ?
Now, THAT is Strange.
Not being a frequent Cringer, cowering or fawning over trivia, I have to wonder What happens when something significant occurs.
It must be amazing to see. |
I sell tickets!
But aside from that, as the person who defends the translation above makes abundantly clear, there are those who buy into this erroneous equivalency.
And that is what I am most likely "cringing" (a euphemism for the "sailor talk" [another euphemism] I say when I hear it) about--the undervalueing of
the US educational system by equating US high schools with Mexican middle schools.
And I'm not even one of those "I'm proud to be an American" types, just a stickler for trying to maintain a semblance of accuracy in life.
[Edited on 3-28-2011 by Bajatripper]
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CortezBlue
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Sounds to me like they need David K to correct them with the translation
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durrelllrobert
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we all have pet peeves. here's mine:
Bob Durrell
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CortezBlue
Sounds to me like they need David K to correct them with the translation |
Nope, you don't know me that well...
Bajatripper speaks Spanish perfectly (I traveled and camped with him last year), and he grew up much in La Paz, so he is the one to know what is
correct.
I am a Baja history fan, and the only thing I feel qualified to correct anyone on is the place name spellings, mission history, Hwy. 1 construction
history, places I been to since 1965, etc... and I do so only in good fun as an education, so we can respect and appreciate Baja perhaps even more
than we already do.
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MrBillM
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Spanish Palavering
I'm reminded of back when I worked with a number of Cuban expatriates who took pride in their "perfect" Spanish and would never miss an opportunity
to venture that Mexicans, as a whole, couldn't speak Spanish properly.
But, then they were critical of just about EVERYTHING Mexican whenever given the opportunity.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
I'm reminded of back when I worked with a number of Cuban expatriates who took pride in their "perfect" Spanish and would never miss an opportunity
to venture that Mexicans, as a whole, couldn't speak Spanish properly.
But, then they were critical of just about EVERYTHING Mexican whenever given the opportunity. |
I think a person's definition of "perfect Spanish" really depends on where they live. Cuban and Mexican Spanish are quite different from each other,
and from that spoken in Argentina, or El Salvado, etc.
As far as "perfect Mexican Spanish," I wouldn't know that animal if it bit me in the rear, either. The Spanish I speak is quite different from that
spoken by a Chilango or Veracruzano, etc.
I remember my sister--who lived for some years in Mazatlan after our years in La Paz where up--once remarking that her friends in Mazatlan thought our
brother spoke "ranchero Spanish," and that's just across the pond.
Perfect Spanish? Not me. I speak pretty good Paceño Spanish, and that's about all I claim (but thanks for the support, David).
[Edited on 3-29-2011 by Bajatripper]
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David K
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De nada amigo (in my very limited 'perfect Spanish' )!
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