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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Yes, racing as fast as you can with super suspension and super tires will get you over lots of stuff... But, I kind of think the OP wants to drive a
normal pace to do a self tour of Baja sites... and 4WD is a must if you are going it alone or don't want the hassle of getting unstuck.
Naturally, if the 4WD rental (at $100+ a day) is out of your league, then get a 2WD with ground clearance and see what you can, but don't drive where
there is any question.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3894
Registered: 2-9-2004
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"Really? You took your '88 Hyundai Excel places where 4X4s feared to tread? And you knew that the vehicles that got stuck in those sand berms were
4X4s how? Their tracks in the sand revealed that?
Although I know two-wheel drive passenger cars can go many places (my family and I traveled the pre-pavement Baja road in a '65 Mustang when I was a
teenager), let's keep a little reality in the topic, please. At no point did I ever make the connection that the Mustang could have kept up with the
4X4s in the rough stuff. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous, especially on a forum that is dedicated to Baja, where most members know a bit about the
subject."
Sheesh - have another cup of coffee!! I never said I took my Hyundai to places where 4x4s fear to tread. I knew those vehicles that I helped shovel
out of sand berms were 4WD because I was the passenger in these cars and helped shovel out or flagged down someone to pull us out. I guess if Bajayan
wants to do donuts through fragile wetlands like Ken, or needs to massage his "ego" with 4WD and try to scale boulders and walk on water with it,
then, hey, go for it - be a man.
And that's exactly the crux of the dilemma -- don't acquire a false sense of security because you think your 4WD gives you super-hero powers. Taking
the "road not taken" too far might be disastrous to your vehicle in other ways, and if you're alone to contend with the flat tire, punctured gas tank,
overheating, broken shocks, good luck to you and your hapless passengers.
PS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had some clearance!
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20372
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
"Really? You took your '88 Hyundai Excel places where 4X4s feared to tread? And you knew that the vehicles that got stuck in those sand berms were
4X4s how? Their tracks in the sand revealed that?
Although I know two-wheel drive passenger cars can go many places (my family and I traveled the pre-pavement Baja road in a '65 Mustang when I was a
teenager), let's keep a little reality in the topic, please. At no point did I ever make the connection that the Mustang could have kept up with the
4X4s in the rough stuff. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous, especially on a forum that is dedicated to Baja, where most members know a bit about the
subject."
Sheesh - have another cup of coffee!! I never said I took my Hyundai to places where 4x4s fear to tread. I knew those vehicles that I helped shovel
out of sand berms were 4WD because I was the passenger in these cars and helped shovel out or flagged down someone to pull us out. I guess if Bajayan
wants to do donuts through fragile wetlands like Ken, or needs to massage his "ego" with 4WD and try to scale boulders and walk on water with it,
then, hey, go for it - be a man.
And that's exactly the crux of the dilemma -- don't acquire a false sense of security because you think your 4WD gives you super-hero powers. Taking
the "road not taken" too far might be disastrous to your vehicle in other ways, and if you're alone to contend with the flat tire, punctured gas tank,
overheating, broken shocks, good luck to you and your hapless passengers.
PS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had some clearance! |
the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his
toyota.
rock crawling and mud-bogging are acts of environmental degradation, typically done by people with little or no respect for environment.
if the road is only passable by 4x4, it is probably best to not travel it. let the environment recover, let the road scar return to natural state,
and walk and do your heart/lungs a favor
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 695
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his
toyota.
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If this isn't a troll, then I'm laughing. Please tell us that you don't believe your own writing!
[Edited on 5-17-2011 by Maderita]
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20372
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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i believe!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Maderita
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
the typical stock 4x4 couldn't compete against my 74 vw bug or 1972 saab wagon. i could have taken either of those cars anywhere DK can take his
toyota.
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If this isn't a troll, then I'm laughing. Please tell us that you don't believe your own writing!
[Edited on 5-17-2011 by Maderita] |
a light weight 2wd can drive more places than a stock 4wd. most stock 4wds are heavy, and have low to medium clearance.
i can take a light weight VW bug farther on softer sand than dk can drive his toyota tacoma. a light weight car with good tires can drive the
washboard way faster than dk can drive his tank. have you ever off-roaded an old bug?
the old 1960s vintage saabs were great rally cars, really light weight, and great approach/takeoff angles. they were very light front wheel drives
with great clearance, short wheel base and narrow. they could go anywhere. like the bugs, if they got stuck, they were so light weight that two guys
could push them out without breaking a sweat.
give me a 1970s vintage bug with good tall tires and i will beat your stock 4wd toyota any day.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by wilderonePS: But you made it down pre-Mex. 1 Baja in a '65 Mustang. So did my neighbor in his Model A - cuz it had
some clearance! |
That Mustang, unfortunately, didn't have the clearance of a Model A. By the end of our trip, the car's gas tank had to have at least a quarter of a
tank of gas before the fuel pump would suck anything but fumes and sections of the floor were a couple of inches closer to our chins.
I do agree that most of today's trips are also doable in 2wd, it's just that one can relax more in a 4wd. Of course, if a person is stupid enough, the
most competent 4wd won't save him/her from themselves.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
give me a 1970s vintage bug with good tall tires and i will beat your stock 4wd toyota any day.
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So when are you and David K going to run out to the Santa Maria Mission? I'd love to see you take that stock bug out there.
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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Sorry Goat. Im calling BS (unless you're ready to back it up)
No worries
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What goat doesn't understand is I have owned a 'lightweight VW powered bug' and did drive it to Gonzaga Bay in 1974 and '75 on the old, old "4WD only
road"... and it did fine.
I also had a 'lightweight' front wheel to 4WD Subaru wagon (3 of them) before my Tacoma.
So, I am not all into 'horsepower, heavy weight four wheeling' as he states.
The facts are the Tacoma is the SMALLER truck from Toyota, and I need a truck for my work and play... Just that size, not bigger. The V-6 is plenty
powerful enough, I don't need a V-8 for what I do. I can do with ONE vehicle and not need two (saving earth's natural resources)!
The VW bug or the Saab front wheel drive (or my Subaru wagons) could NOT get to (or back from) Mision Santa Maria... one of my special Baja places I
don't get tired of visiting... and I have only been there 4 times now.
This thread is about renting a 4WD for visiting Baja with peace-of-mind, and that is an excellent reason. HOWEVER, goat is correct in that (with good
driving skills, good tires, and more than a few inches of ground clearance) a 2WD vehicle will get you almost anywhere you want to go, almost!
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bajatravelergeorge
Nomad
Posts: 154
Registered: 9-21-2010
Location: Baja Norte
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Mood: Happy
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I started off exploring Baja with 2WD vehicles and I did just fine, thank you, with a tire pump and gauge. I planned my trips that way. Traveled that
way for several years. The few times I did get stuck, I was able to dig myself out or find help. Yep, I carried shovels, screen, boards, etc. When I
started to run out of 2WD places to visit, I upgraded to 4WD and was able to get to many places not accessible to 2WD. Now I enjoy having 4WD and
wouldn't go back to 2WD. Having four wheel drive has saved my ass a more than a few times.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8970
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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No road, no problem!
NOT A 2WD ROAD
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20372
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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tax deductable donations
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
NOT A 2WD ROAD
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some of us tread lightly. some of us don't.
When i see people tearing up land like that I send another $20 to Sierra Club! 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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That last photo looks like Santa Maria Canyon where it drops down to the desert near Gonzaga Bay!
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajatravelergeorge
I started off exploring Baja with 2WD vehicles and I did just fine, thank you, with a tire pump and gauge. I planned my trips that way. Traveled that
way for several years. The few times I did get stuck, I was able to dig myself out or find help. Yep, I carried shovels, screen, boards, etc. When I
started to run out of 2WD places to visit, I upgraded to 4WD and was able to get to many places not accessible to 2WD. Now I enjoy having 4WD and
wouldn't go back to 2WD. Having four wheel drive has saved my burro a more than a few times. |
Well said, George. I think this is probably the progression from 2-to-4wd of many of us, as David K points out, too. Sure, one can get by without it,
but once you get it, you will likely be reluctant to give it up.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8970
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
That last photo looks like Santa Maria Canyon where it drops down to the desert near Gonzaga Bay! |
You can't go much further without having to skirt around some large granite pools. This is where hiking becomes the preferred method of travel.
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Bajayan
Junior Nomad
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-13-2011
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So, speaking of Gonzago Bay, I would really like to go, but didn't end up getting a 4x4. So, any thoughts on going via Hwy 1 with a regular car?
Would it be crazy? On the maps it shows as an "improved" road, but it sounds from the post above that it may not be improved enough for me...
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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You don't need 4WD to go to Gonzaga Bay from either direction. You would be best going in a vehicle this is not low to the ground and has good tires
(this is true for any graded dirt road in Baja).
To Rancho Grande/ Alfonsina's road:
From the north, it is about 19 unpaved miles. From the south, it is 36 unpaved miles.
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Bajayan
Junior Nomad
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-13-2011
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Hmm, the clearance could certainly be better, but the tires are great...
Thanks for the quick reply!
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chippy
Super Nomad
Posts: 1775
Registered: 2-2-2010
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Back in the 70s I traveled to some of the most remote spots in Baja in a VW. But it was a Baja Bug with a cut and turned front end and reindexed rear
torsion bars. It had miles of clearance.You would have never made it in a stock bug. Now I like my air conditioned 4wd diesel Suburban. Its much more
civilized.
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