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Puckdrop
Nomad
Posts: 147
Registered: 2-16-2011
Location: Vancouver BC / Loreto, BCS
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Mood: Liven the dream baby !
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London's Burning, could it happen on the Baja?
What has happened to our youths? London is now on fire and riots and looting in the streets are rampant. Makes the Vancouver riot in June look like a
campfire wiener roast. But this is a troubling trend. Why are our youths turning to violence so much these days. Is it the mas migration of ethnic
integration in country's? The US and Canada has always been and was build on immigration but in general all newbies have learned to co-exist with the
laws of the land. But I am seeing less and less of that with this generation. Could it be that perhaps one day here in the Baja the local Mexican
youth will rebel against us the gringos? We do not judge people by the color of their skin or the religion of their choice. You should judge them by
the actions which their souls show their true colors. I have always told myself that when I'm in my home in Loreto, I am only but a guest in their
country. I never forget that.
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Cardon Man
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Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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The "youths" are no less crazy than they have ever been. It's not like people just decided to riot for fun either. In typical fashion, it's the cops
that lit the match by killing a young man in a poor London neighborhood. When people are poor, frustrated, and victimized by the police...violence is
the result.
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grace59
Senior Nomad
Posts: 614
Registered: 9-14-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
The "youths" are no less crazy than they have ever been. It's not like people just decided to riot for fun either. In typical fashion, it 's the cops
that lit the match by killing a young man in a poor London neighborhood. When people are poor, frustrated, and victimized by the police...violence is
the result. |
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/16/photos-riots-fire-de...
I agree with part of your post! BUT, I do think our youth now are different....take a look at the pics from the recent riot in Vancouver BC. The
riot had nothing to do with the poor or people being victimized by the police...the riot was because the Canucks lost game 7 of the Stanley Cup. Look
at the pics...seems like some of these kids are having lots of "fun" rioting...even posed for pics. Why does this happen? I don't know, but it is sad.
It is happening in London, it's happened in Seattle, Vancouver...I've seen youth rioting in other parts of the US when their team looses. Don't know
why, don't know the answer. It is just sad. And I hope that it never happens in Baja.
Whenever I hear that rainy, chill wind blow. I think it may be time to head for Mexico. Tengo que obedecer mi corazon!
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Puckdrop
What has happened to our youths? London is now on fire and riots and looting in the streets are rampant. Makes the Vancouver riot in June look like a
campfire wiener roast. But this is a troubling trend. Why are our youths turning to violence so much these days. Is it the mas migration of ethnic
integration in country's? The US and Canada has always been and was build on immigration but in general all newbies have learned to co-exist with the
laws of the land. But I am seeing less and less of that with this generation. Could it be that perhaps one day here in the Baja the local Mexican
youth will rebel against us the gringos? We do not judge people by the color of their skin or the religion of their choice. You should judge them by
the actions which their souls show their true colors. I have always told myself that when I'm in my home in Loreto, I am only but a guest in their
country. I never forget that. |
You bring up some interesting questions and make some interesting observations. The reasons are many and complex.
But I don't think you need to worry too much about those of us living in Baja suffering a similar fate. The chief distinguishing factor between Baja
and most places that have lived through this type of violence is that the immigrants to Baja tend to bring money, but in those places they come
looking for work. We don't compete with the locals for economic opportunities, rather, we provide the locals with economic opportunities.
That said, something that could end up biting us in the rear here in Baja might be an anti-immigration backlash in the US against Mexican
immigrants--who do compete economically to a certain extent with Americans. While in Baja, on more than one occasion I've been on the receiving end of
anger generated by the treatment received by Mexicans in the US.
But I don't see this turning into a riot like those we see elsewhere. Just a few gringos getting beat up by locals, perhaps. In the meantime, might I
suggest that you love thy Mexican neighbors so that they might vouch for you being one of the "good ones," should it come to that?
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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mcfez
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Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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We do not judge people by the color of their skin or the religion of their choice
Good topic. I think that if one reads history....protest is the norm. Ask Nixon! There are many examples of riots in the world......Four Days' Draft
Riot, Detroit Riot of 1967, 1981 Belfast Riots, 2005 Civil Unrest in France.....so on.
However...
"....We do not judge people by the color of their skin or the religion of their choice".
Not all humans does this...I am very sorry to say. In Baja, and elsewhere...even here at the BN, look in the Off Topics. Much hatred exist.
"...I have always told myself that when I'm in my home in Loreto, I am only but a guest in their country. I never forget that".
Words of a wise person! Exactly how I think too.....and many of us here.
Rioting in Baja? I dont see it happening..at present.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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J.P.
Super Nomad
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Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
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COULD IT HAPPEN IN BAJA
POSSIBLY
COULD IT HAPPEN IN THE U.S.
VERY LIKELY AND PROBALY SHOULD
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Really????
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
The "youths" are no less crazy than they have ever been. It's not like people just decided to riot for fun either. In typical fashion, it's the cops
that lit the match by killing a young man in a poor London neighborhood. When people are poor, frustrated, and victimized by the police...violence is
the result. |
"In typical fashion cops lit the match?????....In typical fashon"???? I suppose you know all of the facts of the incident???
"It's not like people just decided to riot for fun either"......
Check out these quotes from
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44070240/ns/world_news/
....."The riots appeared to have little unifying cause — though some involved claimed to oppose sharp government spending cuts, which will slash
welfare payments and cut tens of thousands of public sector jobs through 2015.".......
...."Others appeared attracted simply by the opportunity for violence. "Come join the fun," shouted one youth, racing along a street in the east
London suburb of Hackney, where shops were attacked and cars torched."..........
Maybe you can also try and balme it on George W Bush.....
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
"In typical fashion cops lit the match?????....In typical fashon"???? I suppose you know all of the facts of the incident???
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Easy there tiger. The cops did indeed kill a man in Tottenham...that's a fact. And the resulting protest evolved into mayhem.
That's not to say there aren't a myriad of factors that lead people to act out like they have. But if you take a tense social situation, regardless of
it's cause, and add violent cops that kill or beat people...well, you can almost count on that triggering more violence.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Jesus! its a slow summer when we start speculating about London like riots happening here.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Again???
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
But if you take a tense social situation, regardless of it's cause,............. and add violent cops that kill or beat people...well, you can almost
count on that triggering more violence. |
Seems like you have an axe or two to grind.....
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Puckdrop
Nomad
Posts: 147
Registered: 2-16-2011
Location: Vancouver BC / Loreto, BCS
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Mood: Liven the dream baby !
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Hey Jesse, let's keep religion out of this
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BajaGringo
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Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I think this has more to do with people's stress, fears and frustration with the imploding economic situation in industrialized nations. The incident
with the cop was just the spark - the bad economy is the fuel...
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Seems like you have an axe or two to grind..... |
Let me guess...ex-cop?
Again, take it easy bajaguy...I'm just calling it like I see it.
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I think this has more to do with people's stress, fears and frustration with the imploding economic situation in industrialized nations. The incident
with the cop was just the spark - the bad economy is the fuel... |
Agreed. Fortunately, I don't sense that level of frustration among citizens here in Baja Sur. Even if you are poor here...you still have the freedom
to sit under a tree, go to the beach, drink a ballena, and blow off some steam with friends and family now and then. I see locals doing just that
regularly. In fact, they are experts at it and are better off for it.
I don't think many people that live in urban centers benefit from that type of freedom. When people are stuck in big cities with little money and
nowhere to go frustrations can easily boil over.
[Edited on 8-9-2011 by Cardon Man]
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danaeb
Senior Nomad
Posts: 991
Registered: 11-13-2006
Location: San Diego; El Centenario
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Mood: groovy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I think this has more to do with people's stress, fears and frustration with the imploding economic situation in industrialized nations. The incident
with the cop was just the spark - the bad economy is the fuel... |
Agreed. Fortunately, I don't sense that level of frustration among citizens here in Baja Sur. Even if you are poor here...you still have the freedom
to sit under a tree, go to the beach, drink a ballena, and blow off some steam with friends and family now and then. I see locals doing just that
regularly. In fact, they are experts at it and are better off for it.
I don't think many people that live in urban centers benefit from that type of freedom. When people are stuck in big cities with little money and
nowhere to go frustrations can easily boil over.
[Edited on 8-9-2011 by Cardon Man] |
Spot on!
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake every time you repeat it.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
But if you take a tense social situation, regardless of it's cause,............. and add violent cops that kill or beat people...well, you can almost
count on that triggering more violence. |
Seems like you have an axe or two to grind..... |
Not to add fuel to the fire, but a casual look at the 1960s in the US supports the view that the police often are the cause of civil demonstrations
turning ugly--whether the demonstration was for civil rights or against the Viet Nam war, which factors out race.
In more recent memory, the Rodney Allen King beating comes to mind.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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motoged
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I highly doubt that Baja is on the verge of rioting youth. They are too busy either working or hanging around with friends and/or family. The social
fabric in London is planets away from Mexico (in general).
Remember the riots in Oaxaca a few years ago? Political issues there were the cause....not youth wearing hoodies and bandanas looking for an excuse
to work out their adolescent angst.
I would consider myself to lean left politically and make no apologies about that, yet have no patience for this random riot BS that seems to pop up
more these days than in the good ol' days of the Weathermen and Kent State (which had merit).
The Vancouver riot had NOTHING to do with hockey....the turdheads who were looking for adventure found it as a statement of disrespect....mindless as
it all was ... mob hysteria is an element to be added to the Zeitgeist of today's world...
I don't think the retired folks dreaming of fishing and their next ballena need to worry about a riot breaking out too soon....
Don't believe everything you think....
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I think this has more to do with people's stress, fears and frustration with the imploding economic situation in industrialized nations. The incident
with the cop was just the spark - the bad economy is the fuel... |
 The thumbs up and the yes smiley face is to show agreement with BajaGringo's observations.
I would not restrict this to industrialized nations though. It is occurring throughout The Middle East and Africa. It happens wherever tyranny and
exploitation by the ruling class exists, and it is growing.
I don't see it happening in Baja though. It is more likely to happen on the Mexican mainland, but the Cartels are currently drawing all the attention.
Nobody is crazy enough to demonstrate against them.
Look for demonstrations in the streets of The United States as soon as the disenfanchised wake up.
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MrBillM
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Lessons of the Past
Looking back on the '60s Rioting, the lesson was that the lawlessness continues as long as the authorities "Think" they can somehow reason with the
Mob. Each time, the end comes when the Mob is Crushed.
The ONLY thing a Mob understands is Violence.
Compromising with a Mob is ALWAYS a mistake.
The strong reaction at the University of Mexico and the (unintended) National Guard Mow-down at Kent State put an end to what no amount of previous
"Reasoning" did. The Guardsmen turned out to be accidental heroes.
If the Mob had been put down at the start of the French Revolution, that country and people would have been saved a nightmare.
Overwhelm Violence with Concerted and Ruthless response.
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Puckdrop
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Registered: 2-16-2011
Location: Vancouver BC / Loreto, BCS
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Good point Mr Bill, but in London the bobbies don't carry guns. How are they ever going to stop an angry mob with cheer-leading batons ? Oh boy, what
have I started now!!!! here comes the NRA
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