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David K
Honored Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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You see it is two DIFFERENT countries and cultures... but, you could just as easily run into a rude Mexican in Mexico as you could a rude American in
America.
For, I am happy in Baja... on vacation or doing some exploring or research... fun stuff... So, I walk into Mexican businesses with a big smile and try
to speak Spanish with them and apologize for any flubs I make trying!
So, I can't think of rudeness... but I try and forget any negatives I run across... and the same thing on this side of the border...
ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING, afterall!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda
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If you're the same, everything else will be the same as well. After all..........it's not what people do, but how you perceive it.
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Diver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
If you're the same, everything else will be the same as well. After all..........it's not what people do, but how you perceive it.
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Your doctorate in sociology is showing ! 
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13052
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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one thing they do different here is when you cross any threshold, like going into a store or restaurant, people say buenos tardes and acknowledge
everyone in the store including the cashier and people say it back to you...and in restaurants they say "provecho" (enjoy your meal) as they walk
by...people would think you are a nut bar if you did that NOB.
Politeness is much more prevalent here for sure...waaaaaaaaay less rude people than up north.
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Mulegena
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Buenas -dias -tardes -noches, Nomads
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
one thing they do different here is when you cross any threshold, like going into a store or restaurant, people say buenos tardes and acknowledge
everyone...
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and they mean it sincerely, I believe.
I first really understood that difference, that crossing the threshold thing and polite sincerity, when I was in Tijuana in a business highrise for a
few days. Everybody, and I mean everyone, gave a greeting upon entering the elevators and everyone responded in kind.
This is a lovely custom, and does make a difference in how you feel throughout the day.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Horse pucky
| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
one thing they do different here is when you cross any threshold, like going into a store or restaurant, people say buenos tardes and acknowledge
everyone in the store including the cashier and people say it back to you...and in restaurants they say "provecho" (enjoy your meal) as they walk
by...people would think you are a nut bar if you did that NOB.
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As anyone from south of Mason-Dixon and east of the Rockies would testify. Polite manners are as common in rural or the southern United States as in
Baja.
[Edited on 8-19-2011 by Dave]
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krafty
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Sorry, have to agree with Dave. Rarely had any problems in Cali-I treat people the way I'd like to be treated. 99% of the time it works.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
one thing they do different here is when you cross any threshold, like going into a store or restaurant, people say buenos tardes and acknowledge
everyone in the store including the cashier and people say it back to you...and in restaurants they say "provecho" (enjoy your meal) as they walk
by...people would think you are a nut bar if you did that NOB.
Politeness is much more prevalent here for sure...waaaaaaaaay less rude people than up north. |
This statement exemplifies the programming of prejudice in Mexico/USA of neighbors, who are in actuality good neighbors and valuable community, but
Governments, both north and south prefer to program instability and mistrust in order to destabilize the California region for their economic benefit.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by krafty
Sorry, have to agree with Dave. |
Don't be sorry. Be happy.
I also tire of the reference that we're a nation of pigs and cavemen.
And.....although I've never been there, [don't want to go, either] I'll go all in saying DF isn't as down-home friendly as smaller cities and towns
across Mexico.
Besides....all this "Buenos Días" formality comes from centurys of serfdom which the US hasn't gone through. Do you really believe all those people
getting on an elevator really care how your day is going? I'll bet they couldn't care less.
Sooo....it's a waste of time to judge the character of a culture from a bunch of mumbled lip-service.
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SFandH
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The politeness thing works both ways. Sure, people in Mexico more often greet strangers BUT, on the otherhand it seems to me that some acts of common
courteousness in the US don't exist in Mexico.
For example, have you ever driven in heavy traffic in Mexico? Too many Mexican drivers are maniacs. Few take turns when two lanes merge into one, they
pass on the right, and forget about using turn signals to let others know what they're about to do. Speed limit? What's that? Stop signs are
discretionary.
Another example. A friend and I were in the Ensenada Home Depot, talking to a sales guy about some plumbing parts. Another customer walked up, barged
into our conversation, and if that wasn't bad enough, the sales guy proceeded to help the butinski while we stood there waiting for him turn his
attention back to us. I was amazed. My friend said it happens all the time.
I'd forgo all the g'days for polite (safe) drivers and salespeople.
Hey, all I want is perfection!! 
[Edited on 8-19-2011 by SFandH]
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 9-27-2006
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How about the crowding and pushing while standing in lines in Mexico vs US???????
Personal space in Mexico is considerably less of what is common in US.
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Katiejay99
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Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
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Mood: it is what it is
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I walked into a local grocery store yesterday (todos santos) just as a Mexican man (who I know and have respected) was saying, "P-nche Gringos" (it
was said in anger, not as something funny). When he saw me he turned bright red, said "perdona me" and then was all smiles and everything. Sure made
me stop and think.
I have lived here for many years and I have always appreciated the respect shown to others and to myself.
One time when I was in the US visiting my mom I was going on and on about the differences in respect, etc between the two countries and why I live in
Mexico. We went to a gas station and standing in line behind me was a woman and child (this was Colorado). I had a soda on the counter and was paying
for $20 in gas and my soda when she piped up and told the cashier to put it on her charges. I did not know this woman. I heard her tell her son
something to the affect that you should do at least one good thing a day for someone else. I left completely confused and never said another thing
about the differences again.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13052
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I guess I prefer mumbled lip service to the abrubt, heartless, arrogant lip of extranjeros.
this thread was started to delve into the different social aspects of LIFE in baja....Another interesting difference here is that when you go to buy
something or go to borrow or contract someone to do something...you dont just barge in and say....give me 2 pounds of 1/2 inch nails...or I need a
door for my garage....first you say buenos dias, como esta, y tu esposa? como va su hija en escuela, como sigue tu mama....you ask about the family,
how the mother's health is, how the daughter is doing in school...in short, you open with a personal conversation showing you care about the family or
village or whatever....THEN after a short (or long) conversation, you get around to what you need.
I know this wastes your "valuable" time..but somehow living here changes our "values" and what becomes meaningful are the personal exchanges that
happen throughout the day...the friendships forged...the smiles and jokes exchanged...not the nails you go to buy. Your project may take a half hour
longer but you enjoyed getting the nails and most likely learned something or laughed out loud.
I realize that perhaps this type of life is not found in some bigger cities...maybe places like DF, Pta.Banda or Ensenada but here in rural baja, the
old polite ways are practised. I have become a better person since moving here and really notice the difference when non baja folks come down and seem
rude. I often get asked by locals why extranjeros are so very rude...most visitors dont even realize they are considered rude as they are just doing
what they always do NOB.
Interesting point to ponder Dennis about left over serfdom...but boy I tell ya...living in a respectful culture...no matter where the respect came
from...is refreshing.
Dave...we dont get alot of visitors from south of the Mason-Dixie...most visitors are from the west coast. I dont mean to generalize either...of
course I realize there are polite and rude people everywhere but we're talking in generalities here and perceptions...which of course depend on where
you live and who you deal with.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Differences???
Hey, how about the ex-pats and tourists that break the law(s) here in Baja, but wouldn't think of doing the same thing back in the US or Canada????
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Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
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Mood: it is what it is
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Shari - I agree with you....
I know this wastes your "valuable" time..but somehow living here changes our "values" and what becomes meaningful are the personal exchanges that
happen throughout the day...the friendships forged...the smiles and jokes exchanged...not the nails you go to buy. Your project may take a half hour
longer but you enjoyed getting the nails and most likely learned something or laughed out loud.
I agree with the "perceptions" statement as well, but perceptions are based on culture, how you were raised, etc. Perceptions can be changed - I know
mine have and for the better. I thoroughly enjoy living in Mexico for many reasons.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13052
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
How about the crowding and pushing while standing in lines in Mexico vs US???????
Personal space in Mexico is considerably less of what is common in US. |
wow, that is not my experience at all...visitors are baffled here when there is a line for example at the telegraph office...we dont actually stand in
line...people mill about, talk to others, look for their phone bill...but everyone is aware who came in and in what order and when it is your turn,
you just amble up to the teller.
I find mexicanos extremely orderly and patient when standing in line and waiting for something. I get fidgety and they calmy stand even with babes in
arms and little children. Men will stand up and offer a chair.
what I did learn early is that when there is a crowd...for example at a busy taco stand at a fair....when you get close to the front you are EXPECTED
to try to get the guy's attention. The first time, I just patiently waited for the guy to see me and take my order....he never did but people behind
me were yelling out orders and getting them....I was perplexed but upon observing the "custom" of how to get a taco..I figured it out that you needed
to step up and be more aggressive...not like in canada. When I asked a taquero about it, he said that if you dont shout out your order, they think you
are just thinking about what you want and havent decided yet...they dont say..."what can I get you?"...the ownice is on you to get their attention.
It's like you HAVE to ASK for the check in restaurants...as it is considered rude to bring it to you. Like at parties, the ladies usually dont start
cleaning up or washing dishes while guests are still there as it is considered a sign that you want them to leave....I make so many social blunders
like this...I like to clean up as I go and start the dishes so I'm not left cleaning up late into the night.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
I first really understood that difference, that crossing the threshold thing and polite sincerity, when I was in Tijuana in a
business highrise for a few days.
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Mulegena, this caught my eye.
Polite sincerity - isn't that a contradiction in terms?
Oh, and I wanted to relay my thoughts about chinese people. For years I had thought they were the model of civility. They were so polite, considerate,
and thoughtful when we spoke. And then I went shopping at Chinatown, San Francisco. They pushed one another around in the fish market. Shoved in front
of me (us) out of turn to pay the cashier. Barked at us angrily when asked questions. It was a free for all in there. But what an experience. That's
the great thing about this country - you can go abroad without leaving the country.
[Edited on 8-19-2011 by Skipjack Joe]
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Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
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Mood: it is what it is
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One time I took the ferry out of Santa Rosalia with my then 10 and 12 year old boys. Both of my boys commented on how well the Mexican children were
acting. Not one child was running around hollering and screaming or playing loudly or crying. They had their toys and played quietly with others or
siblings. My kids were totally shocked. Mexicans are taught to be respectful from the get-go. Now at home they may be different, but in public I have
never seen them act up. Quite a base to start from.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13052
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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This subject is very close to my heart as one of the things I do is teach spanish immersion...which means not only learning the language but learning
about and understanding the culture....it's complexities and differences.
Here is another interesting difference. When someone wants to talk to you about something, they dont just march up and knock on your door. First, they
drive up and park in front of your house and wait for you to come out. If you dont, they may get out of the car and lean on it and whistle a bit
hoping to get your attention inside the house. If this doesnt work and they really need to talk to you, they may say buenos dias...then repeat it in a
louder voice (not shout it)....wait a bit and repeat several times. If you do not come out, well....it's probably becasue you are making out or asleep
or something so they go away and come back later...never ever intruding on your property let alone knocking on your door!!!
I kinda like this as you have the choice to go out or not and it is not intrusive.
It was fascinating after living here over 10 years and thinking I knew so much about the culture...it wasnt until I married a mexicano that I really
learned what was appropriate...no one ever tells you to our face when you comit a social blunder...(but I sure hear about it when my family and
neighbours talk amongst themselves about how rude the gringos can be.) Juan was kind enough to educate me and set me straight...but it sure was
embarrasing to know that all those years I was such a putz....major learning curve.
[Edited on 8-19-2011 by shari]
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Katiejay99
Nomad
Posts: 429
Registered: 9-3-2008
Location: Todos Santos
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Mood: it is what it is
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I know of a couple who recently moved here from the US. They have a short wall around their property with a gate that is always open when they are
home. They were complaining to me the other day that Mexicans are very disrespectful because they stand out in the street and whistle or holler
"buenas dias". They said they told all their Mexican friends to just walk right in and knock on the door. I tried so hard to explain the customs here
and to let them know that actually the Mexicans were being very respectful. They didn't get it.
Perceptions.
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