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RnR
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Posts: 839
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
C-Urchin,
BTW, electricity in Mexico is cheaper than in USA by alot. It's about $0.07/KWH USD in Baja and about $.12 to $.28/KWH USD in USA, CA.
[Edited on 9-16-2011 by MitchMan] |
CFE uses a three-tiered rate system for their electricity. The cost in La Paz is indeed $0.07/KWH but only for the first level tier. The second tier
is about $0.18/khw, and the third tier is about $0.25/kwh.
From CFE's tariff sheet:
(in pesos)
Consumo básico $ 0.713 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo intermedio $ 1.189 por cada uno de los siguientes 100 (cien) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo excedente $ 2.513 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores.
MitchMan - at 5KWH/day that's 150kwh/month. Right at the breakover point to the third tier. Anything more than this puts you equal to or greater
than US costs.
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mcfez
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Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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My bill was only $4.60 last month!
...and I was b-tching!
Why is my electric bill so high?
To figure out why your electric bill is "so high", the first thing you need to do is to figure out what's normal. If your bill has spiked
recently that's easy: Just look at your old bills and see how much your usage has gone up. Look only at the amount of electricity you used in kWh.
Don't look at the cost, because the cost could have gone up for other reasons, such as an increase in the price of electricity itself.
If your kWh usage is similar but the cost is now higher, then the answer as to why is on your bill. Maybe the price of electricity went up, or
maybe your utility company has demand charges, or maybe you're being charged for some other city services besides electricity.
Maybe your bill hasn't gone up but you just think it's always been too high? In that case the first thing you can do is to compare your usage to
what's normal. A typical American family uses 850 kWh per month, as we see on the how much electricity costs page. If you're anywhere near that with
a 3-person household you're normal. Normal doesn't mean good, though, since most people waste lots of energy. Personally, I use only about 99 kWh
per month.
Let's say you still think there's an unknown reason why your electrical usage has been so high recently. In that case the next thing you should
do is to make sure the bill you received is accurate. Once I got a bill that said I used 2617 kWh, when I normally use only 100. A quick look at the
meter showed that they read the meter wrong. My bill said the starting and ending meter reads were 18,441 and 21,058. But when I got my bill checked
my meter it was only at 18,567, so clearly my meter hadn't really ended on 21,058 the previous month. I called the utility and they quickly refunded
the $195 they overcharged me.
If your meter matches your bill, meaning you weren't overcharged, your next step is to verify that your meter isn't running gratuitously. Shut
off all the breakers and see if the meter is still spinning (or if the electronic indicators are changing, on an electronic meter). If the meter
shows electric use even with the breakers turned off...
Is your home a duplex or some other multi-family dwelling? If so then probably at least one of your neighbor's circuits is wired into your
meter. Hire an electrician to fix it.
If your home is a single-family dwelling and the meter still spins when everything is off/unplugged, then your meter is broken. It's highly
unusual, but it's possible. In that case pay an electrician $40-50 to come out to confirm that and to sign a statement to that effect so you have
proof when you go battle your electric company to get back the money they overcharged you. Videotaping it wouldn't hurt, either.
Note that the instructions at left will find leaks when wires aren't connected correctly, but it won't reveal problems where the wiring is too
thin to handle a load. When the wiring is too small for what you're running then the wiring can heat up. The extra heat represents wasted energy,
but more importantly, that heat can also cause a fire which can burn your house down. Unfortunately there is no easy way a homeowner can discover
inadequately-sized wiring themselves. That's a job for an electrician.
If your meter stopped cold when you shut off the breakers (which is the most likely result), then the next step is to make sure the meter doesn't
run when everything is turned off. That way when we start turning appliances back on to measure their use, we can be confident that we're measuring
only that appliance and not some other appliance as well. To do this, turn OFF every single thing in the residence and physically UNPLUG every
appliance from the wall. (Simply turning it off isn't good enough for some appliances.) The water heater might be hard-wired without a plug and in
that case you'll have to just make sure it's turned off. And of course you can't unplug a central AC system so just turn it off. If you have
illuminated light switches (wall switches that light up when the light switch is turned off), then remove the light bulbs from the sockets to get the
switches to de-light.
Once everything is turned off and unplugged, flip the breakers back on one at a time and verify that the meter still doesn't spin. If the meter
still spins and you're 100% certain you've unplugged absolutely everything that can be, and that everything else is turned off, then it's possible
that you have faulty wiring which is causing an electrical leak. It's much more likely that you really failed to unplug or turn off something, but if
you're sure your meter still spins with everything unplugged and turned off, then have an electrician check your home for faulty wiring. In the
meantime, you can estimate the amount that your leak is costing you, by using the meter timing method. Each 100 watts that is running continuously
uses about 73 kWh per month. If you're paying 15˘ per kWh, it costs you $10.95/mo. One reader found a leak that was costing them $15/mo.
But you probably didn't find any evidence of a leak in the last step. So now we'll proceed to measure how much electricity your stuff uses. As
we cover on our how to measure electricity use page, you can either use a ~$25 plug-in watt-hour meter, or you can use the meter timing method. The
latter is free but it's a lot more cumbersome. If you value your time and your sanity you'll get the cheap watt-hour meter. Use your meter to measure
the electricity used by the devices in your home. You can then use our page to figure out how much that usage costs you. Likely you'll find that
there is no mystery, that your bill is high simply because you're using a lot of electricity.
At that point all you need to do is to start using less electricity. Go to the how much your stuff uses page to see what the energy hogs are in a
typical home, and then use the tips on this site to reduce your electrical use. You can do it. Remember, I use only about 99 kWh/mo.
In general I will not accept "Why is my bill so high?" questions because you can find the answer to this kind of question yourself, using the
instructions above. You are the best person to answer this question, because you have access to all your bills, all your appliances, and your
electric meter. I have none of these things. Usually when people have sent questions of this variety they rarely provided any meaningful clues for
me to go on (such as the number of kWh they used or the price they're paying per kWh), and haven't taken the first step which is to measure their
appliances' electrical use.
Above is a step-by-step guide to figuring out why your bill is so high. If you write to me without having made an effort to find the answer
yourself, asking "Why is my bill so high?" I will reply, "I don't know, why IS your bill so high?" 
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/whyhigh.html
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13242
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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very good information. the mexican gvt subsidy was not explained to us when we first arrived and BOY were we in for a big shock when our first year
was up and the bill tripled.
we have since bought a new energy saving fridge, and we try tomonitor lights, and according to hubby - the huge flatscreen TV is a mega-eater, so we
turn it off when we are not really watcvhing it - which we didn't use to do.
but reading/monitorin the meter is an EXCELLENT idea. gracias for the tip.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 3-20-2010
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In La Paz, it seems like every end-of-summer we get nailed with a higher bill, and we don't use a/c. I've heard many locals complain about the same
thing while I've been down at the CFE offices. Anymore, they have me trained to expect it about this time of year.
One of my wife's clients is in the yacht charter business and she mentioned that some of her best customers are the CFE higher ups, who have been
known to drop a hunk of money for a party-charter at times. Bet one of those comes at the end of summer.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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RnR,
My billing for my place in La Paz doesn't coincide to your billing rates.
| Quote: | RnR
CFE uses a three-tiered rate system for their electricity. The cost in La Paz is indeed $0.07/KWH but only for the first level tier. The second tier
is about $0.18/khw, and the third tier is about $0.25/kwh.
From CFE's tariff sheet:
(in pesos)
Consumo básico $ 0.713 por cada uno de los primeros 75 (setenta y cinco) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo intermedio $ 1.189 por cada uno de los siguientes 100 (cien) kilowatts-hora.
Consumo excedente $ 2.513 por cada kilowatt-hora adicional a los anteriores.
MitchMan - at 5KWH/day that's 150kwh/month. Right at the breakover point to the third tier. Anything more than this puts you equal to or greater than
US costs. |
Below is a copy of my most recent billing:
My billing reflects a first tier of 350 KWHs, not 75 KWHs as in your post. I looked at my August 2010 and August 2009 billings with total usages of
657 KWHs and 757 KWHs respectively and they only had two tiers with all three 1st tiers at 350 KWHs. The billing below reflects the first 350 KWHs
tier at $.71372 pesos/KWH and the 2nd tier at $.82581 pesos/KWH calculating to a total bill of $306.78 pesos for 419 KWHs. The math all checks out.
It could be that your billing rates are different from mine in La Paz for some valid reason or there is an error somewhere in all this. But my
billing rate tiers and their respective rates for domestic electricity service don't compare to yours at all.
Today, my most recent August billing (below) reflects a 1st tier of 350 KWHs at $0.06/KWH USD, and a second tier (usage above 350 KWHs) rate of
$0.07/KWH USD using an 11.9 exchange rate. Much lower than your rates and consistant both with the actual billing below and the representations in my
previous post.
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by MitchMan]
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vandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 538
Registered: 10-10-2003
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I should have explained about the tier system a little better:
The hotter the area you live in Mexico, the more it is subsidized by the Mexican government, so poorer people can keep their fridges and fans running.
So a 75 KWH minimum-charge allowance in a cool area can become a 250 KWH allowance in a hot area.
I don't know the cutoff KWH numbers for any particular area, but I do know Mexico is divided into like 7 different usage sections, dependent upon
climate.
I also always thought BCS charged more for power due to it all being diesel-generated. I know my power bill in Santiago is almost 6 dollars per
month, but I leave in the summer.
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RnR
Senior Nomad
Posts: 839
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Yeah, Mitchman, I posted the wrong tariiff. I inadvertantly grabbed a 1D tariff for a different month than your bill off of CFE's website. Should
have been 1D-July, same as yours.
Vandy is on the right track with the subsidies. They are higher when it is hotter. The subsidy on your summer bill is 1,443/1,719 or 84%. (Lower
left corner). The subsidy on one of last winter's bill was only 73%.
Thank CFE for the subsidies. Without them the actual bill would 5 to 6 times higher!!
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by RnR]
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Woooosh
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It should also be noted that once you hit the top tier, you are stuck there for a while. It's CFE purgatory. I think it takes a year to drop back to
the lowest tier again. And stop your whining- our bill is 8-9,000 pesos every two months and a lot of neighbors are running the same. About the same
cost as San Diego.
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Thanks RnR and Vandy. I wasn't aware of the subsidies nor of the billing differential between areas in the Baja. I was aware of the difference in
rates summer Vs winter.
Woooosh, what the heck is going on with your billings? Are you running 4 ton minisplits in every room all the time? Are you leaving your
incandescent 100 watt bulbs and 500 watt halogen spot lights in the yard on all night? Leaving your 90 gallon electric indoor water heater on 24/7?
Man, I don't spend that much on electricity in the USA. You could probably put another layer of cinder blocks all around on every wall for better
insulation and recoup the cost of such construction within a year and a half on electricity savings. Unless, ofcourse, your home is the size of a
medieval castle.
I did a calculation and ascertained that one person could live fat on $9,000 pesos per month in La Paz so long as you owned your own little casita.
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by MitchMan]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Thanks RnR and Vandy. I wasn't aware of the subsidies nor of the billing differential between areas in the Baja. I was aware of the difference in
rates summer Vs winter.
Woooosh, what the heck is going on with your billings? Are you running 4 ton minisplits in every room all the time? Are you leaving your
incandescent 100 watt bulbs and 500 watt halogen spot lights in the yard on all night? Leaving your 90 gallon electric indoor water heater on 24/7?
Man, I don't spend that much on electricity in the USA. You could probably put another layer of cinder blocks all around on every wall for better
insulation and recoup the cost of such construction within a year and a half on electricity savings. Unless, ofcourse, your home is the size of a
medieval castle.
I did a calculation and ascertained that one person could live fat on $9,000 pesos per month in La Paz so long as you owned your own little casita.
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by MitchMan] |
All of the above I guess. Big house with a big family (no heat or a/c systems though), two kitchens plus a deep freezer in the garage, three TV's
going most of the day with telenovelas, three computers humming along, security systems, outside HID security lights. At least our pool is solar
heated. I'm the first to admit we did not move to Baja to live the American dream cheaper- we brought our comforts and trappings with us. We make up
for the CFE with property tax savings since that is $200/year versus $8000 or so in the US.  It all works out.
[Edited on 9-18-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
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Location: La Paz
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For your info I just checked this years CFE bills and no matter what the website says about the Basico, intermediate, excediante, there is no
consistency in the foregoing or the rates.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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MitchMan
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This is great stuff for miserly penny P-nchers like me. Thanks Morgaine7 for the great info and the website.
I was a little confused about how the website read, but about 3 minutes ago I figured out what was confusing. While the website rates quote tiers
based on "monthly" usage, my meter reading and my billings are for a two month period. So, while the 1st tier La Paz rate for "monthly" usage under a
total of 400 KWHs is 175 KWHs for the 1st tier, my "bi-monthly" billing above shows my first tier usage at 350 KWHs which is 2 x 175 = 350. Since my
billing (as shown on a previous post) is a total of 419 KWHs for the two months ended August 02,2011, my first tier is listed as 350 KWHs times the
lowest 'basico' rate.
Since CFE does my billing for a two month period and accordingly only reads my meter once every two months, I guess they divide my total two month
usage by 2 to arrive at their guess of what I use each of those two months. Mathematically, that will come out better for the consumer than if they
were to actually take meter readings and do billings every month.
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vandenberg
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Just paid my CFE bill for the last 2 month.
A measly 11.300.00 pesos. 
Have a good size home and spend all summer here in Nopolo/Loreto. Seems kind of excessive till you consider some other facts. We don't maintain a
second residence, thus, nowhere to go. If, to get out of the heat, we decide to go to the coast, either Baja or Ca., no way to get away any cheaper
then $80.00 a day for a decent place. Then, have to eat out or need a place with a kitchen. And, above all, nothing like your own home. Our regular
electric bill runs around $200.00 a month. This one, when converted, runs about $450.00. You find me a comfortable place to spend the summer for
$250.00 a month and I may think about it.
We have buckoo A/C and use it. That hot, muggy heat gets harder to take when you get older. aIt's all a matter of priorities. Go out to dinner with a
couple of drinks and it easily sets you back $50.00/60.00. That's about a week's worth of A/C.
Hate to get into all the other electric hog stuff we run besides A/C. But, like I said, priorities.
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Gypsy Jan
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Hi, Wooosh
Our CFE bill averages the same as yours. We have lots of electronics (computers, TV, etc.) that we leave hot to prevent the corrosion that is always
an issue when living on the ocean.
Also, for security, we turn on big mercury oxide lights outside every night, dusk to sunrise.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
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Just did a detailed analysis of my usage over the last 3 years in La Paz using current rates per the CFE internet web pages for rates. I forecasted
what my electrical expenses would be if I lived there alone full time, came out to be not less than $600 USD per year, or about an average monthly of
about $51 USD.
That was more than I thought it would be, alot more. I am pretty frugal, more than the average Baja bear, so I can see how electrical bills can very
easily get out of hand, especially if you have a house larger than 80 sq meters and you have more than one person in a household. For instance, if
you have a house with a/c and the living space is 1,500 sq ft and you have four people living in it, I don't see how your annual bill could be less
than $1,000 USD. Now, if this household of 4 and 1,500 sq ft, and there isn't any a/c, then the bill would be closer to $250 -$300 per year USD....
according to my theoretical calculations..... says me.
[Edited on 9-21-2011 by MitchMan]
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J.P.
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We live in Punta Banda and our CFE. bill has averaged around 1,800 p a billing period for the last 8 years I have all the normal electric junk and
have never paid a lot of attention to the bill unless it spikes from the norm. which it did once because of a bad refigerator.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Our CFE bill averages the same as yours. We have lots of electronics (computers, TV, etc.) that we leave hot to prevent the corrosion that is always
an issue when living on the ocean.
Also, for security, we turn on big mercury oxide lights outside every night, dusk to sunrise. |
You have no idea how much we complain about our CFE bill put do nothing to lower it. Glad I'm not alone. I did take out one of the HID all-night
lamps and one is still pretty bright. Electronics don't like salt air or humidity, let alone together so we do waste energy keeping computers, tivos,
and things like that running too. We buy mostly refurb mid-range electronics from places like ww.woot.com too. The salt air is a heartbreaker for my
tools though...
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Riom
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| Quote: | Originally posted by morgaine7
But if average usage goes above a certain quota (1,000 kWh/mo for BCS), one gets bumped into the "DAC" (Domestico Alto Consumo) category.
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I didn't realise that DAC limit varies by area, useful to know. For San Felipe, which is in the 1F tariff, the limit is 2500 kWh/mo average per month
for the past 12 months. In other words, if your running total consumption over 12 consecutive months exceeds 30,000 kWh you'll lose the subsidy.
Here's the table of other areas:
TARIFA LIMITE
1 250 kWh/mes
1A 300 kWh/mes
1B 400 kWh/mes
1C 850 kWh/mes
1D 1,000 kWh/mes (La Paz)
1E 2,000 kWh/mes
1F 2,500 kWh/mes (San Felipe)
The rolling 12 months is an important bit, might be worth going away for a while (or just turning stuff off) if you're getting close to the 12-month
total limit, as one lower month will then keep your rolling average down for a while.
My consumption is 1000-1500 kWh/mo for the heating or cooling months, 800 kWh/mo for milder months, 100 kWh/mo when I'm away. Poorly insulated house,
electric heat, hot water and a/c, some computers but no televisions. So at least in San Felipe I'm nowhere near the DAC limit, in La Paz I would be
getting closer.
Rob
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CortezBlue
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaBlanca
very good information. the mexican gvt subsidy was not explained to us when we first arrived and BOY were we in for a big shock when our first year
was up and the bill tripled.
we have since bought a new energy saving fridge, and we try tomonitor lights, and according to hubby - the huge flatscreen TV is a mega-eater, so we
turn it off when we are not really watcvhing it - which we didn't use to do.
but reading/monitorin the meter is an EXCELLENT idea. gracias for the tip. |
McKilowatt
Don't forget where you and I are in San Felipe, we get a huge reduction in the summer because we are associated with the Ejido.
But, if we go over a certain leverl it does go up fast!! Just not sure what that level is?
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
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I will say it again, Woooosh, "Geez Louise, that's alot of money for electricty!"
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