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jakecard
Nomad
Posts: 141
Registered: 7-13-2011
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Surfing's Autocratic Mind-bending Regime
Why are surfers so territorial?
Where does one surfer get off telling another surfer to avoid posting the exact locations of surf spots "discovered" in Baja?
What level of self-anointed hubris allows one surfer to admonish another surfer to "crop out" landmarks identifying surf spots in photos?
And why, why in God's wide-world would any self-respecting surfer acquiesce to that type of tyrannical brain-washing?
Indoctrination which is among the most puerile aspects to this forum!
Now, please tell me where I am wrong. Because I am always happy to learn!
(edited for punctuation)
Jake
[Edited on 2-2-2012 by jakecard]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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yeah, i always wondered that myself.
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Islandbuilder
Senior Nomad
Posts: 555
Registered: 11-9-2011
Location: nob
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Mood: bewildered
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Jake, buddy. Take a breath!
I sort of agree with both sides of this debate. I have been privlideged to live and surf near some of SoCal's best waves, and never felt like they
were "mine", even when I could see my house from the line-up.
However, I did bristle when some east of I-5 grom started getting territorial about "his" spot! Turns out I was an angry local my own self!
I always figured when surfing anywhere I didn't live, or even if I did live there, that the vibe was more important than getting the most waves, or
riding better than the others in the water.
I lived in Santa Barbara for several years, and drove into LA a couple of times a week to deliver fish downtown. It was amazing how many times I saw
surfers along the Ventura county line dukeing it out IN THE WATER! I just couldn't understand why you would take a Cage Fighter attitude into the
water?!
However, some of the surfers on this, and other, forums have gone through a lot of trouble and expense to find their own little points and reefs. They
had great and wonderful adventures along the way, and, on one hand would like to keep the easy access crowds under control. On the other hand, they
are making it possible for you and I to have our own wonderful adventures finding those points and reefs on our own.
As long as once we get there we aren't greeted with a stink eye before we can even say howdy, I'm fine with that approach.
BTW, when surfing in Mexico, Costa Rica, Hawaii or any other surfing Mecca, I always defer to the folks that have obviously been there a while. I will
sit all morning, giving waves to those whose place it really is, and then come back the next day an hour earlier to get some waves to myself, and get
it dialed in without having to compete.
BTW, parking your motorhome on the cliff DOES'T make you a local!
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paranewbi
Senior Nomad
Posts: 913
Registered: 4-15-2011
Location: San diego
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My backyard fence led into a canyon and cliff line with one of the best breaks anywhere. Days went by with no one out. Then I told a couple of friends
about a place called 'Sunset Cliff' of the west side of the point.
Ah, Toronto St. 1962. Used to be Horny Toads and Trap Door Spiders there in that canyon just on the other side of Cal Western Law School.
Secrets should just stay that sometimes
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15940
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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thems were good times, before my time, but good!
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Islandbuilder
Senior Nomad
Posts: 555
Registered: 11-9-2011
Location: nob
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Mood: bewildered
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I had a good friend in High School who lived in La Jolla Farms. One of the perks for those home owners was that Blacks was the community beach,
sooooo, he had a key to the gate! I would get to his place at 0700, wake him up and we would drive down to the parking lot on the beach and wait for
the sun to get over the cliff before paddling out alone. Morning after morning.
Sure beat falling down the cliff like I used to do before meeting Steve. Best buddy ever!
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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Surfing is a very individual sport. Nobody else will experience the wave that you are on the way you do. Most surfers will get about 10 to 15 waves
per hour. The more surfers the less the waves per surfer. When you're learning to surf nobody will talk to you, you're a kook. After you figure it
out and start to earn your way your way in the line-up, we begin to let you in. Getting burned by a kook who does not know the rules, just dropped
your wave count. peees some guys off. Most surfer are self-centered when it comes to waves. That is the nature of surfing.
Edit. What would a golf coarse look like with without tee times, hole numbers or marshals, OH!!! and the tracks get mowed when ever it happens. Just
think of the mayhem on any given weekend. So you drive (?) hours and get the links with less (? ) people golfing. Is it it's better for you and your
friends with or with out a crowd. Would you shout it from the mountain tops? or would you try for the down low? THAT IS SURFING IN BAJA. Feel free
replace your sport.
Well, some us of believe that you shouldn't post all the beta about a spot on a web site that is visited by lots of people everyday. Is the info out
there, YEP! Doesn't mean I have to add to it, NOPE. If we are sitting around a fire, very often we'll trade info on spots. Some of us have seem great
surf spots go to hell because of the crowds. So the less we post up on them, the less we contribute to future crowding.
As for myself, I love planing and figuring out a trip. The wonder of pulling up to a spot and experiencing it for the the first time is priceless to
me. It's what makes the wrong turns and the wondering if we missed the turnoff all worth while.I want some misery and newness. If somebody plans and
gives me all the info complete with photos/videos and turn by turn directions it lessens the experience. I don't want somebody to do my heavy lifting.
I am ready to pay for my mistakes, and enjoy my success.
It is priceless, when you are watching a wave and you realize that it's THAT WAVE. The one that looked so prefect and that you should surf it. You
figured out the clues.
The things I value the most took the most work and effort.
Places that have been dear to me have been made less by those that don't get it.
I know, I'm am in a minority here. Baja is getting getting smaller and that it's always changing (Progressing?). When it comes to to remote Baja, I
don't do have to help the kooks as they try to figure it out.
MMc Self-centered surfer and butt head at large
[Edited on 2-2-2012 by MMc]
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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I live in the 909 and surf more then most. It's funny I have a place in the line-up at three beaches, the boys think I'm one of them.
Attitude, will go father then anything else in the water. Works most places in the world as well. MMc
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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jakecard
Nomad
Posts: 141
Registered: 7-13-2011
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MMc, thanks. Compelling case for self-centeredness!
Jake
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Terry28
Senior Nomad
Posts: 828
Registered: 8-25-2007
Location: S.Calif mtns.
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Mood: Thirsty
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.......Too many kooks spoil the froth.......
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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goldhuntress
Senior Nomad
Posts: 663
Registered: 1-28-2010
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Everybody's got special places they love to go in Baja, whether it's a surf spot, a rock to sit on with a good view, a camp spot in the mountains or
whatever. I personally love the adventure of discovery. I'll share my favorite places with people I know but not on a public forum.
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bigzaggin
Nomad
Posts: 441
Registered: 5-27-2004
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Mood: way too ites
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First of all, keeping a spot secret has nothing to do with the assumption that we "discovered" it. I keep a handful of Baja spots "secret" that
people have known about and surfed for years...but more often than not, I surf them alone. Is the behavior "morally defensible?" Probably not...but
it's hardly selling kids into slave labor. It's just a thing we do. Same way fisherman don't give away their favorite holes and pitchers don't give
away their forkball secrets and day-traders don't give away their picks-to-click.
Yes, the world belongs to no one...but there's no malice in keeping a secret. Punching a dude out or slashing his tires...no good but that rarely
happens in Baja (outside of San Miguel).
This might never make sense to you, but it doesn't sound like you surf, so no biggie there.
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watizname
Senior Nomad
Posts: 792
Registered: 8-7-2009
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The guys that found those "secret" breaks, took the time to look at and study maps, chance the off road, sometimes no road experience, to get there to
enjoy the stoke solo, or with a few close friends willing to do the same. There is no one is stopping any of the younger guys from doing the same.
What, you just want directions handed to you, so you can check the wave charts and show up, when it's on, get the gravy and go home? Some things you
just gotta earn. 
[Edited on 2-2-2012 by watizname]
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5938
Registered: 7-18-2011
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Surfing sucks. Don't try it. It's dangerous.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4349
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ateo
Surfing sucks. Don't try it. It's dangerous. |
What he said.    
MAGA
marooons Are Governing America
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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I just finished my edit. "Only a surfer know the feeling". It's not about sharing,it's about respect. If you are willing to show some, you will get
some, if not you will learn.
When we hang out and talk story, you get all the details, other wise you get what is here. A little of this, and a little of that, some of which is
true, only worth what you pay for it.
The AM looks good. I am on it!
[Edited on 2-2-2012 by MMc]
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
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Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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When it comes to surfing...or surf fishing....why would anybody ever want to broadcast on the internet where exactly they are catching waves or
catching fish? There are only so many waves and so many fish in any given spot. More people equals less fun and more kooks. The East Coast surf
fishermen have a name for it..."Spot Burning". Aptly named.
A better question might be..What gives any particular person the right to decide to post exact locations when those who were there before choose not
to? Why does everything have to spelled out on line for the masses? Why not just let people get out and earn it...put their time in and find the spots
and earn their place amongst those who are already there?
It seems to me when people insist on being the "pied piper" of any given location or activity they are doing it to inflate their own ego and show the
world just how dialed in they are! It seems to me that it's almost always a newbie that broadcasts in this fashion.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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The "herd mentality"? Some people are uncomfortable when they're alone. Maybe they feel safer in a crowd?
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El Jefe
Super Nomad
Posts: 1027
Registered: 10-27-2003
Location: South East Cape
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Jake, respectfully, do you surf? If so,are you new at it? Just curious. Most people that surf regularly know the answer to your questions. And to them
the behavior you are alluding to may not appear so reprehensible.
Surfable waves are a scarce good. Truly good waves are few and far between. So it is all about numbers.
Consider a nice south swell hitting the beaches on the east cape. The waves come in sets about every 10-12 minutes. Maybe there will be three good
waves in a set. So if I'm out there sitting and waiting for a good one with two of my best pals, we can maybe each get one wave from any given set.
The world is in equilibrium and all is well. In an hour and a half in the water I might get 10 decent waves. I'll go up to the house feeling like I'm
king of the world. Now mind you, waves like this happen maybe 30 days out of the year. So I'm smiling big.
OK, now consider what happens when two rental Suburbans show up loaded with hungry surfers from the crowded north. Fifteen guys paddle out and join my
pals and me in the lineup. Now how many waves do you think any one of us will get in the next hour?
Paddle out at Swami's or Cardiff reef in San Diego county on a good day and you will be lucky to get a couple of waves in an hour. Too many surfers
and not enough waves. It is that simple. To the young hard chargers in the lineup, it is like going to war. Everybody is jockeying for position to get
priority on the next wave. The vibe is not what I would call fun.
So that is why we (ahem) seasoned veterans of this sport like to keep our little "discoveries" close to the vest. Surfing is unique in this way.
And by the way, if you do happen to join me in the water one of these days, I'll greet you with a welcoming smile and pleasant conversation, because
we are surfing uncrowded conditions together in paradise. Life is good. Just don't bring six of your buddies along for the ride! 
No b-tchin\' in the Baja.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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I'll go out on a limb and say it's a credo/belief system not to blab about certain places, but only like-minded wave riding people are going to
understand anyway.
It's not a right-vs-wrong thing which is why when this subject comes up a few times per year, it never goes anywhere but downhill. If you don't
already get it, you won't just by posting a challenge to "prove you wrong" on an online forum.
I'd recommend going out and have your own experiences. Not everyone becomes a convert after surfing with only 2 or 3 people in the water - some can't
help but blab due to underlying diseases processes. But experiencing it for yourself, no matter what the outdoor activity is, will be the path to
understanding. Hmm, kinda Buddha-sounding...
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