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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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SAN FRANCISCO DE LA SIERRA
Don't see alot post about this place, I need help planning a trip i want to do at the end of March..The only thing I know is that I have to go to San
Ignacio to get the proper permits..
where to go in the sierra, as far as cave paintings, any info will be help full,
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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LisaR.
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Location: Chapala, Jalisco
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We actually did not have to go to San Ignacio to get the permits, although I had read that we might have to. There is a local INAH official that
lives in the village of San Francisco de la Sierra, and he will issue them and take payment, unless regulations have changed. I described a trip up
there in a trip report from 2009. It's about half way down page 2. I hope this helps!
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LisaR.
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Location: Chapala, Jalisco
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Correction: It's more like 3/4 of the way down the page...
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LisaR.
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Sorry, I forgot to link to the post!
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=40484&pag...
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Bajatripper
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Agree that you don't have to go to San Ignacio for the permit. We went to the Santa Marta area a couple of years back and were able to pay all the
required stuff at the ranch (permit and guide). Since the exit (when coming from the north) for San Francisco de la Sierra is well before San Ignacio,
that might be good info to know.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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ElCap
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Posts: 281
Registered: 1-22-2010
Location: Montara CA, or San Ignacio BCS
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While you likely can get the INAH permits up in the Sierras, I would recommend going to San Ignacio at least a day in advance and schedule your guide
& get the permits there. The office is just past the Mission - you have to duck into a little door opening in the old Mission wall where you will
find a nice guy sitting at a little desk. You tell him where and when you want to go, and he steps outside with his sideband radio and radios up to
the mountains to schedule your trip & guide. You pay some token fees to him, and you pay your guide directly for his services and use of his
animals. The guide will provide mules (to ride - it sure beats hiking, in my opinion) and burros (to carry gear). You need to bring all your camping
& cooking gear, food & water, and you are to feed your guide as well. If you just went up to the Sierras to do all this I'm not sure how fast
they would be able to muster up a guide - they use a rotation system, and these folks are not just sitting around waiting for some tourists to show up
- they are struggling to survive up there. It takes a while for a guide to get all the animals saddled up, and I doubt if it could all be done on
short notice and be able to get down the canyon on the same day - and then you'll be camping in the rancho for the night. I have done this and don't
recommend it, although it was rather interesting. I would recommend a 3-day/2-night trip so that you can see the big caves including Cueva Pintada
and others. I've done a 2-day trip with just one night in the canyon and it felt too rushed, but it is a possibility. The ride in & out is
spectacular and a real E-ticket, and hopefully you are not afraid of heights, as you'll be riding up & down some pretty crazy 'trails'! It really
is one of the most spectacular experiences Baja has to offer. If you have more questions feel free to U2U me, and I can give you more specific info.
[Edited on 2-12-2012 by ElCap]
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
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Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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Thanks Lisa for the link, actually i want to do the tour were you ride the mules to the paintings..I was told San pablo Canyon holds some of the great
murals..
Bajatripper, you are right from San ignacio to the turn off to SF is about 25 +/= miles.
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Neal Johns
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Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
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Mood: In love!
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Been down in the canyon (Arroyo San Pablo) out of San Francisco twice.
Suggest getting another couple to go with you to reduce price. Contacting the guides yourself is much cheaper (a fraction) than going on a commercial
tour. Suggest five days total, two for in/out and three in the bottom of the canyon hiking to nearby caves. INAH assigns the guides from a rotating
list.
You are expected to feed the guides/burro handlers.
Burros or mules will be supplied depending upon size of the rider.
Guide pay rates are set by INAH at local rates. Most people give a tip.
Take a water purifier to treat the water (unless new rules require you to pack water in).
Strongly suggest buying a copy of Harry Crosby's book "The Cave Paintings of Baja California", 1984 revised edition. It has great pics of the Arroyo
San Pablo rock art on slick paper.
Search for it at http://used.addall.com/
Joke picture below of mismatch of large rider on smallest burro on first trip.
![{Q}File0002 [800x600].jpg - 29kB](https://forums.bajanomad.com/files.php?pid=696096&aid=29586 "{Q}File0002 [800x600].jpg - 29kB")
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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El Cap makes some good points in his post that are also worth considering.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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boe4fun
Super Nomad
Posts: 1040
Registered: 1-22-2006
Location: Margaritaville
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Mood: Circling the drain........
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I agree with ElCap, he's right on the mark. Also when at the INAH office in San Ignacio they will radio the guides and let them know when you're
coming up. It takes the guides just a couple of hours to ready their mules and burros. Also you will need to get permits for any cameras or video
recorders you take into the canyons (I think there are 4 or 5 out of San Francisco de la Sierra and about the same out of Santa Marta). Best to play
it safe and get all of your permits in San Ignacio.
Two dirt roads diverged in Baja and I, I took the one less graveled by......
Soy ignorante, apático y ambivalente. No lo sé y no me importa, ni modo.
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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Thanks guys for the info, I was thinking just to speend about 3 days, what can i see in 3 days..
and Neal already have the book thanks , thats why i want to go in person..books motivated people to explore..
what about Cueva El Raton...
El Cap, idea is what I had in mind 3 days 2 nights..
[Edited on 2-13-2012 by BAJACAT]
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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Neal Johns
Super Nomad
Posts: 1687
Registered: 10-31-2002
Location: Lytle Creek, CA
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Mood: In love!
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Cueva El Raton is alongside the road in and not worth walking 100 feet. Very faded and not representative of rock art in the canyon.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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thanks Neal, I will look at my options...I really want to do this trip..
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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To read about the first 'outsiders' to ever see San Francisco (de la Sierra), I suggest reading Erle Stanley Gardner's 'The Hidden Heart of Baja'
c1962 and 'Off the Beaten Track in Baja' c1967... Before the road up to there was built in the 1980's, the only way there was by helicopter or a 2 day
mule ride!
San Francisco (de la Sierra) is along the Jesuit's EL CAMINO REAL between San Ignacio and Santa Gertrudis. It was a mission ranch or visiting station
and a possible early choice for the next mission north of San Ignacio, which was scheduled to be called 'Dolores del Norte'.
When Choral Pepper arrived there with the Gardner expedition in the 1960's, she asked the local women what was the significance of the rather thick
rock walls in the village. Their reply was "Dolores"... which made Choral and Erle Stanley Gardner believe that they had discovered a lost mission
site.
The belief that the mission-era walls in San Francisco (de la Sierra) were from the Dolores de Norte planned mission was probably handed down from
generation to generation. Before San Francisco (de la Sierra) was 'discovered' by Gardner, this village was unknown to most outsiders. The ruins of
the visita of San Pablo (in the canyon below San Francisco) were believed by early travelers to be Dolores del Norte, and even INAH calls it that.
The facts are that when funds became available to finally establish the next mission, the benefactor requested the mission be named after his
daughter... and Dolores del Norte became 'Santa Gertrudis'.
San Pablo was a visita of Santa Gertrudis. San Francisco does not have a good water source required for a mission, so the idea that it was one was
probably just a myth that was started to explain the walls built before the site became populated by the Arce and Villavicencio families... who were
descendents of Spanish soldiers brought to Baja to gaurd the missions.
Read Harry Crosby's 'The Last of the Californios' c1981
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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there is alot history in that area David, plus the scenery is one of a kind...
the only isue I have is how to plan the food, for me and the guide or guides,I don't know if it takes one or two guides..do i supply a tent or they
sleep under the stars.. alot questions..
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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KurtG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1211
Registered: 1-27-2004
Location: California Central Coast
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Mood: Press On Regardless!!
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El Cap and Neal have given good advice, follow it and you will have an experience of a lifetime. I have a mild case of acrophobia but overcame it to
do this trip. The paintings are spectacular but even if they were not there the ride and the experience of being in Arroyo San Pablo would be worth
the trip.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
there is alot history in that area David, plus the scenery is one of a kind...
the only isue I have is how to plan the food, for me and the guide or guides,I don't know if it takes one or two guides..do i supply a tent or they
sleep under the stars.. alot questions.. |
There has been many posts over the years here on Nomad and the Internet on the mule trips to the cave art in the canyons... Just search by clicking
the Nomad search button (top left) and / or the Google search way down at the bottom almost (of every Nomad page).
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3296
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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We went with an outfitter, Gary Marcer from Ignacio Springs B&B. While it may have cost a few bucks more than trying to figure it out yourself I
consider it money well spent. I don't recall the price but it was reasonable. He provided everything needed and cooked all the meals for us and the
guide and burro handlers. We had a total of 11 people includind Gary, the guide and 2 cowboys (mule boys? goat boys? I don't know what they would be
considered). We had the trip of a lifetime, went places we would not have gone had the guide not been there to help and had a fun lunch at the ranch
in the canyon on the way out. I don't think it would have been possible to set up a trip like we had by ourselves.
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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Bajacat, you'll love going on this trip! And the riding and camping are so incredible that the caves turn out to be just icing on the cake!
http://www.tourbaja.com/horseback_riding_pack_trips_baja_cal...
If my link doesn't work just google saddling south, and go to tourbaja.com.
Trudi's trips are excellent, she has amazing guides, if you choose to go with an outfitter. Money can be an issue with this route, and El Cap's
advice is right on for doing it on your own, going through INAH for your guide. I've only done rides with Trudi as I'm much too lazy to plan and
prepare the food, and I don't have all the gear I would want for the trip.
A few notes:
You will need to hire one guide for each 3 people in your group. I looked into the cost of doing a trip without an outfitter, and you pay for each
animal, and for each guide. So 3 people actually travel a bit cheaper than 4, though the cost of the guides is very reasonable. Feed them well, and
tip them well. They'll be working hard, leading you on rides and walks, and dealing with care of the animals, saddling, unsaddling, etc. while you
are relaxing. You may need to bring a Coleman stove or other camp stove, as fires aren't permitted in all camps. I'm pretty sure that all pf the
guides up there have their own tents and bedding-- you don't need to supply these.
A good first trip plan if you can spend 3 nights--
Day 1: Go to INAH in San Ignacio, arrange for guides in early morning. Drive up to the Sierra, meet your guides, ride to Santa Teresa, spend the
night.
Day 2: Ride back to Cacarizo, set up camp, hike to La Pintada and Flechas.
Day 3: Hike up San Julio, ride back to Santa Teresa.
Day 4: Ride out, drive out, and hit the road for home.
Have a look at Tour Baja site even if you're going to do your own trip-- lots of good information there.
Although the guides work on rotation, you may be able to request a specific guide. Angel (Puma Loco is a nickname) from Palo Rayo is one of the best.
Few guides speak any English, but they communicate beautifully.
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ElCap
Nomad
Posts: 281
Registered: 1-22-2010
Location: Montara CA, or San Ignacio BCS
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Yes, Gary has led trips in the past and I would highly recommend him, but not sure if he is still doing this. Kuyima Ecotours in San Ignacio also
will lead a guided trip and will take care of everything, but of course this will cost you more (check their website for details). That being said,
if you are comfortable traveling Baja, you should be able to go it alone. Here are some random tips I suggest from my limited experience of 3
different trips to both Sierra San Francisco and Santa Marta:
- if you are going on a multi-day trip, every guest should ride a mule - some people (crazy Germans, I hear) choose to hike the entire trip, but
riding a mule allows you to look around and enjoy the incredible vistas rather than watching where you are going to take your next step on the loose
rocks down the trail. Believe me, those mules are the way to go. You can always get off and walk when you want (and you will at times when the trail
gets too treacherous!). Last year a mule was 150p/day - worth every peso.
- bring lots of gear to make your camping comfortable: tent, camp chairs, good campstove, whatever goodies that make you happy. Your guide has his
own personal gear, and will likely sleep on his saddle blankets like he has all his life. The burros will carry all the gear, and (last year) cost
about 100p/day per burro. Guide fees were 150p/day. Do the math - it's a good deal.
- bring good food, and lots of it - remember the burros pack it in, not you. Your guide will likely have a stash of food if he can't stomach the
gringo food you bring, but these guys work hard and eat alot! Bring tortillas, chorizo, and huevos. Bring a guitar if you play it. Bring a bottle of
tequila or brandy - even if you don't drink - your guide will likely enjoy it. If you drink, bring more, because it never has tasted so good. You
should plan on bringing up water to the Sierras with you - ask in San Ignacio what the water situation is this year, but a filter works too as there
is usually water down in the canyon. If you don't speak Spanish well, bring a spanish-english dictionary because you'll be searching for that word
when your guide doesn't speak a word of english.
- bring a few pesos, because Rancho Santa Teresa at the bottom of the canyon has a tiendita that will sell you a cold cervesa (as cold as it can get
in a small adobe shack). It tastes really good, and if you ask they will pick some oranges off one of their trees for you too. Priceless.
- from my experience there are two approved overnight camp locations in the canyon below Sierra San Francisco - at Rancho Santa Teresa and further
down the canyon below a rock formation called el Cacarizo. The latter is preferred in my opinion, as it is right on the river and in the midst of all
the caves.
- bring a gift for your guide. A good tip is nice too, and we always give all our leftover food to the rancho when we leave. This trip will cost you
relatively nothing compared to what you get out of it, and after seeing how hard life is for these wonderful people who struggle to live up there,
you'll want to give them everything you have.
- enjoy a trip that will rival just about any adventure you can do on this planet.
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