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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20375
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little
Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or
any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country, |
there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if
automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little
Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or
any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country, |
there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if
automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns. |
I second that motion. Barry, just out of curiousity, did you ever see the video of their tests of the Suzuki Samurai?
I would hardly call that a "hatchet job," since the vehicle's performance spoke for itself. And besides, what would the magazine gain by
misrepresenting their results on those vehicles? The truth often hurts, but that's no reason to bury your head in the sand.
For the record, I owned the predecessor of the Samurai and was very happy with it. Perhaps it was that feeble 970cc engine that kept me out of
trouble.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
Yep...but Consumer Reports has a fetish for cheap. Put two items up for review by them and if one is cheaper than another and neither falls apart
the cheap one wins.
If you drive in Baja cheap should not count...experience should and that experience should come from people who drive Baja.
As they say, "You don't need a gun until you REALLY need one" and you don't need a superb tire in Baja until you REALLY need one.
BB |
If what you say were true, American cars would be the mostly highly recommended models, which they definitely are not--which I have often suspected is
the reason so many Proud Americans find the magazine objectionable.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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CBS killed the Jeep CJ-5 as well... a classic vehicle born from its founding in WWII and produced from 1955 to about 1986, I recall.. Over 30 years
with very little changes to satisfy the consumer market for that type of vehicle. If it flipped the way 60 minutes made it look, then people wouldn't
buy them... another company would come along with a better vehicle, etc.
Ford Bronco, International Scout, Toyota Land Cruiser, Nissan Patrol, Land Rover... they all tried... but the PEOPLE still wanted the Jeep.
The CJ-7 was created in 1976 at 10" longer, but that was to fit in an automatic transmission and Quadra Trac full time four wheel drive option. The
20" longer CJ-6 had been around nearly as long as the CJ-5, but it didn't have the 'look' people wanted or wasn't quite as trail worthy being that
long. A CJ-8 was a pickup like version of the CJ-7, called the Scrambler.
Jeep remade the vehicle with a wider track and lower body height to appease the roll-over fearing groupies... but could not call such a vehicle a
CJ... so no CJ-9... it was the YJ (Yuppie Jeep), complete with square headlights... called it a Wrangler (except in Canada).
Thank God, they made some changes and went back to round headlights... and gave it the model name TJ (True Jeep?)... or Tijuana? Looked more like the
classic CJ-5, anyway... Ken has one.
The even bigger Wrangler introduced a couple years ago is now designated the JK (Jeep King?)... with a four door model that looks more like a Hunmmer
than a CJ-5! Too big to do the tight little trails that the CJ-5 and its Willys smaller models before (CJ-2A, CJ-3A, CJ-3B plus the military Jeeps of
WWII and the Korean War, the MB and M38, and M38-A1)
[Edited on 4-6-2012 by David K]
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bufeo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 793
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Santa Fe New Mexico
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Back on topic, "bacquito" your Coopers should be fine. They're a good tire and what's more you write that they were given to you, so you're well ahead
of the curve anyway.
Allen R
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I gave up on them about 5 years ago, especially on "tires" and SUV type "vehicles". When they did a hatchet-job on Isuzu Troopers, and the little
Suzuki Samurai, that was the beginning of the end, for me!!! They crucified both those vehicles on criteria that simply should not apply to SUV's or
any 4-wheel drive vehicle, IMO, and it pretty much ruined or damaged both brands in this Country, |
there is no reason that SUVs should be given pass from rollover stability evaluations. if cars are unstable people should be made aware. if
automakers sold unstable cars, they deserve to see market share plummet when independent testing finds out the truth.
SUVs are sold as daily drive vehicles, they should be designed to stay up right during quick turns. |
I second that motion. Barry, just out of curiousity, did you ever see the video of their tests of the Suzuki Samurai?
I would hardly call that a "hatchet job," since the vehicle's performance spoke for itself. And besides, what would the magazine gain by
misrepresenting their results on those vehicles? The truth often hurts, but that's no reason to bury your head in the sand.
For the record, I owned the predecessor of the Samurai and was very happy with it. Perhaps it was that feeble 970cc engine that kept me out of
trouble. |
Yes, I saw the video's on both the Sammy and the Trooper. Guess what, 4x4's worth their salt in the dirt and rocks are inherently unstable------tis
the nature of the beast. If CR had just stated that clearly without saying the vehicles were "unexceptable" then fine, but noooooooo they had to
infer they were death-traps!!! "Not recommended!!!!!" Sales plummeted!!! Good job, CR---------NOT!!!!! I still have my Trooper and still love it!
and unbelievably it has never rolled over!!! Go figure!?!?!?!?
It's just my opinion, of course, but they lost me!!
BArry
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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For BajaTripper:
They rate a lot of foreign cars above American ones because until about ten years ago quite a few American cars were junk. Most have not heard about
Bill Demming who is the main reason Japanese Auto Makers ate our lunch starting in the 1980s. Here's a link to his stuff: http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp
He was a quality advocate....invented "Statistical process control" and was honored eventually with the Demming Award for quality in business process.
When Detroit was hung up on producing "Detroit Iron"....remember the AMC Gremlin and Found On Road Dead for FORD"...he went to the Big Three with his
ideas and they ignored him. So he went to Japan where Honda and Datsun etc were making automotive Pachenko machines. They adopted his ideas and you
know the rest about how they ate our lunch.
My problem with CR is not about American vs Foreign...I am more than ready to see GM and Chrysler go BK as they deserve to be and would be without
Obamaski bailing out their unions. But I find CR to be excessively focused in stuff that is irrelevant in most of our daily lives....the three month
fetish on fish sticks mentioned in an earlier post being a very good example.
I think we're on the same page...don't wanna get ripped off. But CR wastes my time helping me avoid that.
BB:-)
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I find it interesting that the most widely used tire, from Doug's list above, has not been tested as far as I know. The BFG All Terrain TA KO. My
annual CR guide does not list it.
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3754
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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I have about 50k on my Cooper/Discover tires on my F-150, and many trips to Baja with lots of off road miles.
My only complaint is a flat last week in Santo Tomas, but maybe the 2 inch sheet metal screw had something to do with that.
Great llantera just off the highway at the bottom of the hill.
Good tools, compressor, etc.
and the huge charge was a whopping 40 pesos......
so we tipped him another buck and all was good
and the Coopers are great for the all-around use- especially since we have 500 highway miles just to get to Ensenada, so pure off road tires would be
a waste.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3152
Registered: 3-20-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
For BajaTripper:
They rate a lot of foreign cars above American ones because until about ten years ago quite a few American cars were junk. Most have not heard about
Bill Demming who is the main reason Japanese Auto Makers ate our lunch starting in the 1980s. Here's a link to his stuff: http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp
He was a quality advocate....invented "Statistical process control" and was honored eventually with the Demming Award for quality in business process.
When Detroit was hung up on producing "Detroit Iron"....remember the AMC Gremlin and Found On Road Dead for FORD"...he went to the Big Three with his
ideas and they ignored him. So he went to Japan where Honda and Datsun etc were making automotive Pachenko machines. They adopted his ideas and you
know the rest about how they ate our lunch.
My problem with CR is not about American vs Foreign...I am more than ready to see GM and Chrysler go BK as they deserve to be and would be without
Obamaski bailing out their unions. But I find CR to be excessively focused in stuff that is irrelevant in most of our daily lives....the three month
fetish on fish sticks mentioned in an earlier post being a very good example.
I think we're on the same page...don't wanna get ripped off. But CR wastes my time helping me avoid that.
BB:-) |
I'm one of those who is aware of the Bill Demming story and how the arrogance of the US auto industry played into his going to Japan.
I also totally agree with your point that CR can over-focus on petty stuff.
Thanks for the personalized post.
[Edited on 4-7-2012 by Bajatripper]
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Cooper Discovereer ATR
Just priced a set for my 2006 Toyota Tacoma today at Les Schwab Tires (NW states tire dealer)
With mounting, balancing, stems and sales tax the four tires came to $881.40
The tires list at $185.66 each for LT245/75R-16 size.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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can I see a picture of those tires one more time?
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
can I see a picture of those tires one more time? |
http://www.amazon.com/Cooper-Discoverer-ATR-All-Season-Tire/...
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bacquito
Super Nomad
Posts: 1615
Registered: 3-6-2007
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Mood: jubilado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bufeo
Back on topic, "bacquito" your Coopers should be fine. They're a good tire and what's more you write that they were given to you, so you're well ahead
of the curve anyway.
Allen R |
I have been under the weather so have not not been on line.
I did receive the four cooper tires but my son and my wife changed them at Discount tires for four BFG All Terrain-and a few more $$. I had no choice
as I was in the minority. But to all I thank you for your advise and I will keep you posted on my feelings about the BFG's
bacquito
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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
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Mood: Easy Does It
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WOW they have gone up in price I put the same tire's on my Suburban about 2 years ago at Express Tire. in SANTEE Ca. for 600dls and recived a 75dls
Rebate they are very good tires.
[Edited on 4-8-2012 by J.P.]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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'LT' tires are more $$$ than 'P' tires (that some of our trucks come with).
'P' Dynapros are $130-$140 and the LT version is like $180+ (265/75-16).
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