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805gregg
Super Nomad
Posts: 1344
Registered: 5-21-2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
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For portable solar power check out Power Film, they make folding solar panels for the military. I have 2, 30 watt panels that hook together and I can
power my boat hanging out in Catalina Island for a couple of weeks running our Engle refer, without starting our engine. They can be expensive, I got
mine on sale at Amazon cheap they are military overruns with camo colors.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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AGM Battery
Faster charging rates...spill proof..never need water...no good with car/truck/rv alternators...low self discharge....less space....can save you money
if set up proper for your asumned loads....in a flooded or sinking boat they still will fuction and keep the radio working (very good thing) and
pumps...but the upfront cost can be HIGH !!! K&T
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2753
Registered: 5-10-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bugman
I am not all that keen on the generator noise either but you just can't beat it for long term stays in remote areas. I often go into Agua Verde for 6
or 7 days at a time and a block of ice just won't last that long. I have an Engel 45qt fridge/freezer ... |
No, you can't beat it if you camp with a car. Though I doubt there is too much need in a fridge on 7 days trip - you won't get sick when drinking
something non-refrigerated. Carbonated drinks are not for wilderness anyway. Black tea with lemon - real stuff or from a bottle - works well without
refrigeration. Food is easier yet. Fridge on such a trip is something that you want, not something that you need.
With a trailer or camper van you can beat generator easily. 2x80W panels is all it it takes to power up your Engel and some LED lights. Probably
1x120W panel will suffice. People are camping in vans with slightly larger 12V fridges and that much panel. Van is a perfect match for weeklong
offgrid trips. It has enough roof for a small solar and enough space for a properly insulated fridge in a cabinet. Landyacht that posted here, has
exactly this, if my memory doesn't fail me. Portable top-loading fridges like Engel are not very efficient, the lid and walls are thin.
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2753
Registered: 5-10-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
That IS a well thought out design. Too bad the battery is only a 55 ah battery, though it is an AGM. Probably good enough for most applications.
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Don't want to be too harsh, but I see only one good thing about this design - that it's mounted on a cart. Which means you need a ramp to roll it out
of a trailer, so this may not be as good as it seems first.
The panel is mere 80W. This means 20 Ah a day or less, on a good sunny day in Baja winter. Twice less on a cloudy day. Enough to maintain a propane
fridge, few LED lights, and charge a phone. Nothing else.
Now, to really get those 20 Ah, you need to tilt the panel at 30-40 degrees in winter. Otherwise the output will be less than 15 Ah. I am not sure how
easy is to tilt this contraption.
They put a lot of emphasis on AC outputs, inverters, bla, bla, with impressive numbers like 3600 W output. But this is misleading. 80W panel would
generate less than 70W after inverter, even when perfectly aimed. What they mean is that you charge it at home for a day or two, take it out, and draw
3600W, of which 3550W will be drawn from the battery and 50W from solar panel (weather permitting). With that much draw it will run the battery flat
in a matter of minutes, of course.
The bottom line - get a couple of 100 Ah batteries and save your money.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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All good info,but
I'll let you in on the good stuff !!! Shhh ! dont tell anyone..... in marine apps we have to have it dailed in and the
use,,care,,maintanince,,install,,all makes a big diff..If you buy a book, or kindle and study the systems that are currently avable and the pros and
cons will put you way ahead of the game...most of the RV rags I see have lacking solid electrical advice IMHO...most rv's are set up for a weekend
trip and not real duty-time and electricl punishment. and as stated a electrical audit and space assesment is a good first step....A small
hopefully, helpfull tip...K&T...PS,,just noted were someone posted about
idleing motor for charging,,,no,no,I'll make it short..1500rpm MIN. PPS....car/rv alt. are not designed for charging,,but to maintain,, state of
charge !! Fact !!
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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PS,,just noted were someone posted about idleing motor for charging,,,no,no,I'll make it short..1500rpm MIN. PPS....car/rv alt. are not designed for
charging,,but to maintain,, state of charge !! Fact !!
sorry kt every time you post about electricty i wonder if you actually work on electrical systems...
if an alternator is turning it produces electricty...
(disconect your battery and see if the engine still runs if you doubt me)
newer cars have whats called a "voltage regulator" that sends current to the battery...
(newer cars are even more high tech)
it is true that at idle the amps are lower
but current is being supplied to the battery if needed...
when you use battery power
the voltage in the battery drops
even if the battery is fully charged...
since the "voltage regulator" reads voltage
it supplies extra voltage to the battery even at idle
agm batteries are ok but you can not tell
the "real" condition of the battery using ONLY voltage...
a battery with a dead cell
may start a car because the starter converts
small voltage into large power
(notice all the "windings")
the problem using agm batteries
with solar is you can't check
the "real" condition of the battery
(that's the cell condtion)
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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It is true that your vehicle will still charge a battery at idle, but you will have to let it idle for hours to charge a large capacity battery that
is discharged. It's a very inefficient way to charge a battery.
The trouble with FLA batteries is that you need to check the cell condition all the time because they gas, need to be watered, and self-discharge at a
high rate.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
It is true that your vehicle will still charge a battery at idle, but you will have to let it idle for hours to charge a large capacity battery that
is discharged. |
that depends on if you have a 30 amp alternator or a 200 amp alternator...the new cars have way better systems
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monoloco
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I don't know of any vehicles that come with a 200 amp alternator, maybe some of the new diesel trucks, most vehicle come with a 60-120 amp alternator
but put out considerably less at idle. I know from experience that it takes a very long time to fully charge the batteries in my F350 at idle when
they are depleted.
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by monoloco]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I don't know of any vehicles that come with a 200 amp alternator, maybe some of the new diesel trucks, most vehicle come with a 60-120 amp alternator
but put out considerably less at idle. I know from experience that it takes a very long time to fully charge the batteries in my F350 at idle when
they are depleted.
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by monoloco] |
newer fords and chevys come with 200 amp alternators
and they are expensive...thanks for warranties
trucks and cars
if you are depleting your batteries in your f350 maybe you should look into a larger alternator
the actual size is the same
tech is just better
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by Bob and Susan]
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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BOB
Hola,& happy holidays..BTW I learned by age of 20 all guys are mechcanic and electricians and you seem to fit in that group .. I not trying to
insult you but you dont really understand electrical systems & batterys..That said If you can prove me wrong on ANY of my electrical post's I'll
send A $1000 dl to doug to be given to a baja dog rescue he sees fit !! I'm tired of trying to help other folks and then you shoot your mouth off and
its easy to say you do not know what the hell your talking about in regard to electrical..ABYC...NEMA,,,CFR..UL...NMEA 0183 & 2000...K&W
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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alternators
BOb. Just to let you know the simple FACT !! they are rated hot or cold and at 3000 RPM...they put out very little at idle..Geez ,,I just had my
coffeee and reread your post BOB,,you really dont know a damn thing..disconnect your battery...are you really that ST--ID that will instaly blow some
diodes and the reg !!!...PS..the main tool in my box next my brain and time on the job and my "fluke"............... Stick to making tacos BOB !!!!
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
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Terry28
Senior Nomad
Posts: 828
Registered: 8-25-2007
Location: S.Calif mtns.
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Mood: Thirsty
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Popcorn time!!
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1499
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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Solar is neat and I am a big fan, but what works best for me when I am camping is a 1000 watt Honda. It is small, quiet, runs a long time on a gallon
of gas, and puts out alot of power. Will charge batteries pretty well with its own built in charger or you can plug in a larger capacity charger to
help out. I don't like gen noise either so I have a 100' extension cord and I put it away from camp, can't hear it at all. Mine has been vey reliable
and starts first or second pull most of the time.
Your mileage may vary.
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | if you are depleting your batteries in your f350 maybe you should look into a larger alternator
the actual size is the same
tech is just better
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by Bob and Susan] |
I don't normally deplete my batteries but I have a few times from
letting it sit too long with out running it and I know that to recharge them by idling the truck would take several hours as opposed to 30 minutes
while running down the highway. I'm no electrician but I suspect that even a 200 amp alternator doesn't put out much when your vehicle is turning
6-700 RPM.
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
...That said If you can prove me wrong on ANY of my electrical post's I'll send A $1000 dl to doug to be given to a baja dog rescue he sees fit
...you really dont know a damn thing..disconnect your battery...are you really that ST--ID that will instaly blow some diodes and the reg
!!!...PS..the main tool in my box next my brain and time on the job and my "fluke"............... Stick to making tacos BOB !!!!
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if you run a generator nothing happens
if you run an alternator
all you need is a resistor to keep the ac current from spiking
then remove the battery
if the engine keeps running the alternator is good
send the $1000 to doug...
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
...That said If you can prove me wrong on ANY of my electrical post's I'll send A $1000 dl to doug to be given to a baja dog rescue he sees fit
...you really dont know a damn thing..disconnect your battery...are you really that ST--ID that will instaly blow some diodes and the reg
!!!...PS..the main tool in my box next my brain and time on the job and my "fluke"............... Stick to making tacos BOB !!!!
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if you run a generator nothing happens
if you run an alternator
all you need is a resistor to keep the ac current from spiking
then remove the battery
if the engine keeps running the alternator is good
send the $1000 to doug... |
wouldnt it be easier to just measure voltage at the battery looking for
something around 14 volts?
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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wrong////fail..BBBZZZZ
If you install a diode you can get away without a load !! check out Zap stop,,NEXT........Im rewireing two yachts right now but its around 39 degrees
and rainy so no work today but will sit here and take on ANY electrical challenges !!! K&T
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2753
Registered: 5-10-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
..... in marine apps we have to have it dailed in and the use,,care,,maintanince,,install,,all makes a big diff..If you buy a book, or kindle and
study the systems that are currently avable and the pros and cons will put you way ahead of the game...most of the RV rags I see have lacking solid
electrical advice IMHO...most rv's are set up for a weekend trip and not real duty-time and electricl punishment. |
Sometimes Cap really knows what he is saying. Most RV users have little to none knowledge of electricity. It's not difficult to learn, but it takes
time and effort, and most people are unwilling. What's worse, the solar industry is home-oriented, there are kits and specialized crews to cover your
roof with panels, they charge a lot, but at least the service is there. With RVs 99% of systems are made by users from the scratch, often with poor
results because they don't know what they are doing. Didn't take time to learn.
There is Handy Bob's blog. Just read and relax. Engineers won't agree with some of his points, but mostly he is right in his observations. The net result
speaks for itself. He is living full time off 345W tilted solar panels, using microwave and power tools when he needs to. No generator. No 12V
fridge though. A simpler flat installation and same propane fridge he would require 600W panel, which is doable on most trailers. He is not a good
teacher, though. I know most of this stuff already and just having fun reading his blog.
I see the side discussion on charging from a car alternator. This won't work for 7 days stay on the camp. More noise, more fumes, more fuel. If
somebody really wants to run a fridge and don't want 120-160W solar, - get a generator.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Dometic/norcold
They dont need any voltage unless for the peizo starter and thats easy to deal with...Aborption fridge runs on propane !! relieable and wotk rather
well if set up correctly..compressor fridges suck pwr vs a propane fridge..funny,,, guys stand in line to pay me 95hr for my skills & here I get a
guy (bob) that trys to tell me my profession !!!! go figure !! still behind the counter at 7/11 LOL...K&T....PS...12 volt fridge is about as usefull as a empty six pack !!! propane works !! my folks on the east cape have
2 sorels from the fiftes that run on propane and thats a test of stamina !!! duty,, real world testing !!!
[Edited on 12-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 12-29-2012 by captkw]
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