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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Ya know, I started this thread for a non Nomad friend, to help them learn if there were GSAs in Mexico and it has morphed into a discussion that has
helped at least one person who has contacted me via U2U and maybe many others.
Now again I am grateful to Nomads who again have come through for another Nomad. Saludos Amigos!
Iflyfishconminomadamigos
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Well said, Iflyfish, well said.
Nomads-----Please walk in a parent's or child's shoes before making jokes about this stuff. |
Thanks Baja Bucko
I think it's very hard for us straights to get our heads around someone so different unless I have struggled with this issue. I'm heterosexual like
most other men, how can I get my head around that another man could be attracted to men when the attraction toward women is a powerful as it is? As a
heterosexual man when I first found out there were Gay men I was freaked out, felt disgusted, creepy. They were a threat to my own identity as I had
to sort out the world of dating, friendships with women etc. Not an easy task in itself as the flat spot on my forehead can well testify to. Trying to
get my head around such a different orientation while I was trying to sort out my own was just too much. Having someone different to look down on had
it's appeal. It wasn't till I was older in my life and really got to know LGBT people that I got to appreciate their bravery in dealing with such a
fundamental issue that I did not have to deal with.
I felt the same way about racial minorities and their fight for acknowledgement and social/legal equality that I do about the LBGT fight for equal
rights. I am glad that "the times they are changing" in regard to this last major Civil Rights issue of our time. My hope is that there can be less
pain for these folks. We need all the diversity that we can get.
Iflyfish |
I don't know...might be generational as well. I've had plenty of gay male and female friends. When we met Rick, I never thought to ask you about
your sexuality...why should it matter to me....I never felt an attraction...nothing personal and our friendship has emerged since. I see it this
way...some people are attracted to large people...some to dark...some to small and some to the same sex...what does it matter what or who you are
attracted to?
I'm comfortable in the shoes I wear...I suppose that might be the bottom line.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja Bucko
Well said, Iflyfish, well said.
Nomads-----Please walk in a parent's or child's shoes before making jokes about this stuff. |
Thanks Baja Bucko
I think it's very hard for us straights to get our heads around someone so different unless I have struggled with this issue. I'm heterosexual like
most other men, how can I get my head around that another man could be attracted to men when the attraction toward women is a powerful as it is? As a
heterosexual man when I first found out there were Gay men I was freaked out, felt disgusted, creepy. They were a threat to my own identity as I had
to sort out the world of dating, friendships with women etc. Not an easy task in itself as the flat spot on my forehead can well testify to. Trying to
get my head around such a different orientation while I was trying to sort out my own was just too much. Having someone different to look down on had
it's appeal. It wasn't till I was older in my life and really got to know LGBT people that I got to appreciate their bravery in dealing with such a
fundamental issue that I did not have to deal with.
I felt the same way about racial minorities and their fight for acknowledgement and social/legal equality that I do about the LBGT fight for equal
rights. I am glad that "the times they are changing" in regard to this last major Civil Rights issue of our time. My hope is that there can be less
pain for these folks. We need all the diversity that we can get.
Iflyfish |
I don't know...might be generational as well. I've had plenty of gay male and female friends. When we met Rick, I never thought to ask you about
your sexuality...why should it matter to me....I never felt an attraction...nothing personal and our friendship has emerged since. I see it this
way...some people are attracted to large people...some to dark...some to small and some to the same sex...what does it matter what or who you are
attracted to?
I'm comfortable in the shoes I wear...I suppose that might be the bottom line. |
"When we met Rick, I never thought to ask you about your sexuality...why should it matter to me....I never felt an attraction...nothing personal"
No apology needed, actually your mother is pretty cute, more than you, hey, but that's just me, I was born a raging heterosexual, can't help it just
born that way. It's limiting I realize, but there you have it. ...but that having been said, I like what you have to say. What is the difference to me
how people choose to use their sexual organs? By they way I appreciate your reference to large people, we are after all often disregarded in the
equation.
I do hope it's a generational thing, we will all be better off if it is. Demographics win out in the end and for that I am grateful.
Iflyfishconmiasuncionbuddies
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Adds a different dimension ............
To "Exploring Back-Roads in Baja".
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Terry28
Senior Nomad
Posts: 825
Registered: 8-25-2007
Location: S.Calif mtns.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Thirsty
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I knew if we waited long enough Mr. Bile would raise his homophobic head.
Mexico!! Where two can live as cheaply as one.....but it costs twice as much.....
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
This great organization is doing some wonderful charitable work in Mexico as well as in the UsofA and Canada.
http://www.impcourt.org/icis/info/Documents/ICC_Trifold_Fina...
This group offers a safe place for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual) students in schools across the United States and Canada supporting
safe schools.
http://www.theswcsun.com/gay-straight-alliance-works-to-crea...
I have a friend who has asked me to inquire of my fellow Nomads if anyone knows of any GSA groups in Tijuana or in the rest of Mexico?
If you have any information on this please U2U me.
Thanks,
Iflyfishconmilgbtamigos |
If you post this question in the OT section I'm sure you will get a prompt answer
from some the people that are banned from posting in this section or just never read it for some reason.
Bob Durrell
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Who is banned from posting in this section? | Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
This great organization is doing some wonderful charitable work in Mexico as well as in the UsofA and Canada.
http://www.impcourt.org/icis/info/Documents/ICC_Trifold_Fina...
This group offers a safe place for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual) students in schools across the United States and Canada supporting
safe schools.
http://www.theswcsun.com/gay-straight-alliance-works-to-crea...
I have a friend who has asked me to inquire of my fellow Nomads if anyone knows of any GSA groups in Tijuana or in the rest of Mexico?
If you have any information on this please U2U me.
Thanks,
Iflyfishconmilgbtamigos |
If you post this question in the OT section I'm sure you will get a prompt answer
from some the people that are banned from posting in this section or just never read it for some reason. |
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
The LGBT movement in the United States became one of bullying and power grabs under the guise of Political Correctness. Because Mexican culture does
not go out of it's way to find victims and because the victims don't seem to have the same platform for complaints as they do in the more liberal
quarters of the United States, there seems to be less of a problem with LGBT students wanting to protest, demonstrate, and raise a fuss under the
guise of having experienced discrimination.
Bajaboys comments about keeping their affections private is a pretty common part of the culture in the same way. You will occasionaly see a young
couple showing affection, but that is also frowned upon by the older community in the same way.
If a family member is LGBT disposed, the ususal comment is something along the lines of a generic description of that person seems to prefer people of
the same sex. And at some level the term queer or joto / jota is used in a generic term of wordplay, but in my experience I have never seen the
students using it is a disparaging manner as a discriminitory putdown.
Now there is something you may want to look into and research. Why in the US with all the bullying that they employ to get supposedly equal treatment
in terms of Same Sex Marriage and social acceptance, and all the protesting, lobbying, general disturbance, and all the other methods of fomenting
change, do the words like "faggot", "queer", 'homo", etc., etc., have such a negative and hateful connotation? In Mexico, on the other hand, we see
a much more balanced and accepting expression of alternative lifestyles and choices. |
So a Mexican boy calling another Mexican boy a "Joto" isn't a putdown?
I wonder which Mexico schools you hang out in and hear these terms of endearment?
Well Pescador I'm just glad you didn't bring up the so-called "gay agenda" in the USA.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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I agree with you EnsenadaDr that the Mexican attitude seems more relaxed in Mexico than the USA, but it's not that way everywhere in Mexico.
In the USA we are witnessing a shift in attitude and feelings towards gays. According to the polls, the younger you are, the more accepting you are
towards gays in the military or same-sex marriage, and those same positive feelings towards gays applies to even young conservatives. However, the
older you are, and on average. The older person seems more homophobic and is against gays in marriage, or same-sex marriage in high poll numbers.
This could probably be explained that younger people are around more gay open people, than older people were when they were growing up.
I have no poll data on Mexicans and their feelings on gays according to age brackets, however there is something called the " "Two-Spirit" tradition,
which I talked about once in the OT, and may explain some Mexicans feelings towards gays.
In Mexico you have two cultures, the Aztec culture that was based on Catholic traditional, and very homophobic towards gay. You have Mexican fathers
that will get very hostile if he finds out he has a gay son, and will at times beat his son, and kick him out of the house.
But on the other hand you have the Mayan, or native Indian tradition that held the "two-spirit( formerly called berdache) in high regard with powers
of a shaman, and were always consulted in spiritual matters. These two-spirit persons looked like a transgendered person and wore clothing of the
opposite sex, and although a transgendered person is not always considered gay, it's doubtful the Indians would have the same hostile attitude towards
gays that the Aztecs did, or the throwback macho Mexican father. The Indian side of Mexicans seem more accepting of gays, and transgendered people.
Of course this is just one theory, I see a lot of just looking the other way in Mexican culture too, especially with regards to the father, who seems
to never know anything, yet you suspect he knows what's going on.
If interested in this subject just Google " "Two-Spirit" people.
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greengoes
Select Nomad
Posts: 10316
Registered: 6-27-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: Today I slay the Red Dot.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
So a Mexican boy calling another Mexican boy a "Joto" isn't a putdown?
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Clase Espanol gratis para paco........
If they are both gay it isn't a put down. Also, if you call someone that it can be interpreted as showing interest.
But you should know all this considering the time you spend in Tijuana.
ANUNCIATE AQUI
DISPONIBLE
INFORMES LLAMA SNOWBALL - 646-115-7754
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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On the BART platform Oakland some years ago.
Two "gays" were giving each other tongue in the middle of the platform, then one reached down into the pants of the other.
I yelled at them "Please! Decorum!"
What did I get in answer?
"Why you dirty #$%^&$#@ no good &%^&%^$#$@#$% - @#$%^&*#@! straight ^%$#@#$%! HOMO PHOBE!!!!!"
The biggest obstacle to gays overcoming prejudice and anger, are the actions of the more outrageous members of the "gay community". They force
"in-your-face" social confrontations.
It's like dialing up H Rap Brown, and Al Sharpton, to come and cool down racial tensions.
The gay community does little if anything at all to exert peer pressure on the extremists to act like "normal human beings" regardless of their sexual
orientation.
I do not like extremists of ANY persuasion. Maybe that's why I much prefer living where I live.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Well, looking at the positives .................
With that crowd, school sex will result in a lot fewer teen pregnancies.
Objectively, it should be Zero.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by greengoes
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
So a Mexican boy calling another Mexican boy a "Joto" isn't a putdown?
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Clase Espanol gratis para paco........
If they are both gay it isn't a put down. Also, if you call someone that it can be interpreted as showing interest.
But you should know all this considering the time you spend in Tijuana. |
How many kids you know Greengoes/JAK/Pepino that are openly gay and still in school? When kids come out it's usually after high school, because kids
can be horrible to each other, especially towards weaker, and effeminate looking boys in both Jr High, and High School.
It sounds like Greengoes you been to many gay bars where this type of gay banter goes on, but I hardly think young boys on the playground that are
calling each other Joto because they are showing same sex interest in each other. Bullying starts in grade school and looks like it continues into
adulthood with some people especially in the OT, and where you hang out Greengoes.
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greengoes
Select Nomad
Posts: 10316
Registered: 6-27-2011
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Mood: Today I slay the Red Dot.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
It sounds like Greengoes you been to many gay bars where this type of gay banter goes on, but I hardly think young boys on the playground that are
calling each other Joto because they are showing same sex interest in each other. Bullying starts in grade school and looks like it continues into
adulthood with some people especially in the OT, and where you hang out Greengoes. |
Actually, you are the one who has been linked to numerous other than heterosexual encounters in Tijuana, not I.
On a side note, I see in the near future this thread being moved somewhere.
ANUNCIATE AQUI
DISPONIBLE
INFORMES LLAMA SNOWBALL - 646-115-7754
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
Seems homosexuality was alive and well in MezoAmerica |
My comments concerned my rendition and recollection of historic Baja, not exactly a part of the Plumed Empire. I'll leave the tracking of gays in
Aztlán to Gary Jennings.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
On the BART platform Oakland some years ago.
Two "gays" were giving each other tongue in the middle of the platform, then one reached down into the pants of the other.
I yelled at them "Please! Decorum!"
What did I get in answer?
"Why you dirty #$%^&$#@ no good &%^&%^$#$@#$% - @#$%^&*#@! straight ^%$#@#$%! HOMO PHOBE!!!!!"
The biggest obstacle to gays overcoming prejudice and anger, are the actions of the more outrageous members of the "gay community". They force
"in-your-face" social confrontations.
It's like dialing up H Rap Brown, and Al Sharpton, to come and cool down racial tensions.
The gay community does little if anything at all to exert peer pressure on the extremists to act like "normal human beings" regardless of their sexual
orientation.
I do not like extremists of ANY persuasion. Maybe that's why I much prefer living where I live. |
I wonder David if you would show the same outrage if a young so-called straight couple were getting it on, kissing, and putting their hands down the
pants in front of you on the bus? Or perhaps it's only gay couples that make out and throw it in your face, like ultra conservatives seem to say?
Where is John Ascroft when we need him? Ascroft sure did a great job of covering up that partially offending nude statue in the Great Hall of the
Department of Justice.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Dennis, how did it go?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, how did it go? |
Went just fine. Cardioverted with one zap of 150 Joules. Sinus Rhythm is back in place....forever, I hope.
This is not me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nsN0vdXZuY
.
[Edited on 1-30-2013 by DENNIS]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I was hoping you would elaborate on this a bit more. A year or so ago, I mentioned about possibly doing a cardioversion to convert the atrial
fibrillation. It was so surprising to me -that a well-known cardiologist in Ensenada dismissed it saying "it will come right back, even if it gets
you into Sinus rhythm for a while." So don't try it? Ridiculous. Thank God you have the VA. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, how did it go? |
Went just fine. Cardioverted with one zap of 150 Joules. Sinus Rhythm is back in place....forever, I hope.
This is not me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nsN0vdXZuY
.
[Edited on 1-30-2013 by DENNIS] |
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13212
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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well, interesting thread to say the least
I want to comment that I have an adopted son who is gay. although he came to us when he was 9 (after his mom died), I had known him since he was born.
And that is how I learned that GAYS are born GAY. There really is no choice for them except suffer in silence or come out of the closet. Foolishly,
my husband at the time and I thought that we could make him a "macho man" by not encouraging his feminine behaviour. Hogwash. That kids was gay
from the getgo.
I don't believe for a second that anyone, ever, would CHOOSE the sad and difficult life being gay.
Hopefully, one day our society will realize that gayness cannot rub off. It is what it is. If you are hetero, you will remain hetero and if you are
gay, you will be gay.
There is an overtly gay kid in our local 7th grade, I have never seen the kids make fun of/tease/or even comment about him and they can be extremely
cruel to each other over other issues.
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