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Leo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 518
Registered: 9-23-2004
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: could be better
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Weebray, don't believe it. Everyone tells you different.
To my knowledge, one can and has to apply within ONE month of expiry. My FM2 was to expire January 30 and we went in January 15 and started the
proces. The RP's were done on April 17. Then there can always be a surprice like mine had someone elses picture and signature on it which took them
another 4 weeks to fix.
The grass is always greener....
and so, there is always a better spot in Baja
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weebray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 7-19-2010
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: lleno
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We went into migracion today with our questions in writing and in Spanish so there could not be any confusion. The agent showed us the back of our
cards where it said "refrendo 3" and said we would not be able to start the application process until AFTER our current FM2's expired at the end of
August. She really seemed to know what she was talking about and we are sure we understood what she said. We aren't sure what refrendo 3 means but
maybe that has something to do with it???
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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I amstill struggling with this....aside from the annual fee, and for me the non problem of renewal....what are the benefits? If I have to import my
vehicles, possibly pay taxes on my income etc....why do it?
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Leo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 518
Registered: 9-23-2004
Location: Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: could be better
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If the income is from mexican sources, Chuckie, you have to declare that anyway. They are not taxing your US income. You will get sort of a
dual-citizenship status so you can drive your foreign plated car with your US driver's license but don't let any Mexican drive that car.
Down the road you might save a lot of tax when selling your mexican home (if you have one) I believe it is after 5 year residental status your lawyer
who is closing the deal for you can apply for tax-exempt status on any profits you might have.
The grass is always greener....
and so, there is always a better spot in Baja
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laventana
Nomad
Posts: 216
Registered: 8-24-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: sharing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Leo
If the income is from mexican sources, Chuckie, you have to declare that anyway. They are not taxing your US income. You will get sort of a
dual-citizenship status so you can drive your foreign plated car with your US driver's license but don't let any Mexican drive that car.
Down the road you might save a lot of tax when selling your mexican home (if you have one) I believe it is after 5 year residental status your lawyer
who is closing the deal for you can apply for tax-exempt status on any profits you might have. |
I am not sure this the car part is complete, people on the mainland side with the new permanent residency are being told and rejected from getting
TIP passes for US plated vehicles. That you must have Mexican plated vehicles as a permanent resident. I read they are telling people if you are
driving north back to the USA your car will not be confiscated.
This seems accurate to me as I have read several people already have been stopped from taking the Ferry to the mainland from LaPaz that for the first
time had permanent residency. I also had a friend years back who had his FM2 and he could not take his vehicle to the mainland and once in a
while being pulled over in LaPaz they would threaten to confiscate his car, but they never did.
So the concern here is they may with so many people now being permanent residents now enforce that part down in baja sur.
also not sure if the capital gains is up to date, it may only be up to a certain amount, which may be about USD$400k-600k.
And the income issue is also touchy, do find a tax attorney on that one as you may be liable for all income you make including in the USA businesses.
Just like as a US citizen you have to declare all money you make all over the world but you are not double taxed in the usa if you pay in another
country, but if you pay less then you are taxed in the USA for the additional amount. It would not be unreasonable for the same logic in Mexico as
a permanent resident.
These are the areas of why I have not ventured into FM2 old and now permanent residency for the 14 years I have been here.
[Edited on 6-12-2013 by laventana]
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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I think this is the needed CLARIFICATION
| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
We went into migracion today with our questions in writing and in Spanish so there could not be any confusion. The agent showed us the back of our
cards where it said "refrendo 3" and said we would not be able to start the application process until AFTER our current FM2's expired at the end of
August. She really seemed to know what she was talking about and we are sure we understood what she said. We aren't sure what refrendo 3 means but
maybe that has something to do with it??? |
1. In order to apply for RP (without having to show income, etc.) you have to have held your FM3/FM2 (or combination of both) for 4 years MINIMUM.
2. The first year you held your new FM it does not show a "refrendo"
3 At the start of the second year it shows "refrendo 1" meaning that 1 full year is completed.
4. At the start of the third year it shows "refrendo 2" meaning that 2 full years are completed.
5. At the start of the fourth year it shows "refrendo 3" meaning that 3 full years are completed.
6. When that FM expires (and only after it expires) you have completed the 4 years MINIMUM required to apply for RP and you must apply within 60 days
of expiration.
7. Since my friends FM2 already showed a"refendo 4" she had to apply BEFORE it expired and since she didn't her application was
rejected.
Bob Durrell
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weebray
Super Nomad
Posts: 1094
Registered: 7-19-2010
Location: La Paz
Member Is Offline
Mood: lleno
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OK, Sr. Durrell to clarify: If a person has an FM2 with refredo 3 on the back they must wait until the tarjeta expires then apply for RP within 60
days?? That is what the migracion agent told us except she said that we had to apply within 6 months of experiy. She also said that our expired
FM2's would be legal and valid for 6 months. Crazy but you would think that a refrendo 4 would be a better status than 3 but things aren't always
intuitive here.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
OK, Sr. Durrell to clarify: If a person has an FM2 with refredo 3 on the back they must wait until the tarjeta expires then apply for RP within 60
days?? That is what the migracion agent told us except she said that we had to apply within 6 months of experiy. She also said that our expired
FM2's would be legal and valid for 6 months. Crazy but you would think that a refrendo 4 would be a better status than 3 but things aren't always
intuitive here. |
I was told the very same thing by the Loreto Migra.
The FM-2 MUST expire FIRST.....then one must apply for the permanent status with 6 months. The time period after your card expires to the time you
start the process for permanent.....that FM-2 card is valid.
I asked them again.....twice more in fact, in front of more than one agent.
Both times, both agreed. Apply for the permanent within 6 months AFTER the FM-2 visa expires.
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rhintransit
Super Nomad
Posts: 1588
Registered: 9-4-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
OK, Sr. Durrell to clarify: If a person has an FM2 with refredo 3 on the back they must wait until the tarjeta expires then apply for RP within 60
days?? That is what the migracion agent told us except she said that we had to apply within 6 months of experiy. She also said that our expired
FM2's would be legal and valid for 6 months. Crazy but you would think that a refrendo 4 would be a better status than 3 but things aren't always
intuitive here. |
I was told the very same thing by the Loreto Migra.
The FM-2 MUST expire FIRST.....then one must apply for the permanent status with 6 months. The time period after your card expires to the time you
start the process for permanent.....that FM-2 card is valid.
I asked them again.....twice more in fact, in front of more than one agent.
Both times, both agreed. Apply for the permanent within 6 months AFTER the FM-2 visa expires. |
well, Loreto INM has its own interpretation of the rules. as does every other local office, I would assume.
having done it myself for seven years, and having studied the law, I chose to have a lawyer deal with the Loreto folks for me this last time. they
said I couldn't apply for PR, I said I could
see older post: 'they said it couldn't be done. free at last'
for those who don't want to refer to it, I couldn't resist sharing my photo one more time:
[Edited on 6-12-2013 by rhintransit]
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rhintransit
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
OK, Sr. Durrell to clarify: If a person has an FM2 with refredo 3 on the back they must wait until the tarjeta expires then apply for RP within 60
days?? That is what the migracion agent told us except she said that we had to apply within 6 months of experiy. She also said that our expired
FM2's would be legal and valid for 6 months. Crazy but you would think that a refrendo 4 would be a better status than 3 but things aren't always
intuitive here. |
I was told the very same thing by the Loreto Migra.
The FM-2 MUST expire FIRST.....then one must apply for the permanent status with 6 months. The time period after your card expires to the time you
start the process for permanent.....that FM-2 card is valid.
I asked them again.....twice more in fact, in front of more than one agent.
Both times, both agreed. Apply for the permanent within 6 months AFTER the FM-2 visa expires. |
well, Loreto INM has its own interpretation of the rules. as does every other local office, I would assume.
having done it myself for seven years, and having studied the law, I chose to have a lawyer deal with the Loreto folks for me this last time. they
said I couldn't apply for PR, I said I could
see older post: 'they said it couldn't be done. free at last'
for those who don't want to refer to it, I couldn't resist sharing my photo one more time:
[Edited on 6-12-2013 by rhintransit] |
I believe you!!....those of us who have tramped through the forest (desert) here long enough understand "this is the way it works" and have accepted
it as a just another adventure.
If your attorney is local...or not...what a pearl of information he/she might be able to provide the "real" scoop. (or his/her interpretation of it)
Like maybe publish it for all concerned to digest what is says, with quotes of the actual statute which states the law as written and highlighted
links to that actual statute.
Nah.....that would be asking too much I am sure.
Congratulations on your new status.
I am hoping to join you in a few short months. (if the water does not rise)
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by weebray
We went into migracion today with our questions in writing and in Spanish so there could not be any confusion. The agent showed us the back of our
cards where it said "refrendo 3" and said we would not be able to start the application process until AFTER our current FM2's expired at the end of
August. She really seemed to know what she was talking about and we are sure we understood what she said. We aren't sure what refrendo 3 means but
maybe that has something to do with it??? |
1. In order to apply for RP (without having to show income, etc.) you have to have held your FM3/FM2 (or combination of both) for 4 years MINIMUM.
2. The first year you held your new FM it does not show a "refrendo"
3 At the start of the second year it shows "refrendo 1" meaning that 1 full year is completed.
4. At the start of the third year it shows "refrendo 2" meaning that 2 full years are completed.
5. At the start of the fourth year it shows "refrendo 3" meaning that 3 full years are completed.
6. When that FM expires (and only after it expires) you have completed the 4 years MINIMUM required to apply for RP and you must apply within 60 days
of expiration.
7. Since my friends FM2 already showed a"refendo 4" she had to apply BEFORE it expired and since she didn't her application was
rejected. |
I should have prefaced this clarification with "This is how my agent in Ensenada described it. May not apply to other INM offices.
Bob Durrell
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Bob and jane
Nomad
Posts: 272
Registered: 3-25-2004
Member Is Offline
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Another experience in Loreto:
We were in our 4th refrendo (meaning in our fifth year of Fm2). We applied a month before the expiration date of our FM2 at the Loreto migracion.
Everyone was very helpful and appreciative that we had done all the paperwork on our own. Three weeks later we had our fingerprints taken and the
application was sent to DF. We are told that our new "residente permanente" visas will be here in a few weeks. We feel confident that that will
happen. Good vibes all around. Just our experience.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6082
Registered: 2-20-2012
Location: Kansas Prairies
Member Is Offline
Mood: Weary
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There is always LOTs of discussion re: Getting the RP.....But little in the way of defining what our responsibilities are AFTER getting one. We came
close here a couple of times, but I am not clear yet on Auto imports and taxes. The downsides may be significant, and the paperwork worse....
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Marinero
Nomad
Posts: 419
Registered: 11-4-2003
Location: Los Barriles, BCS
Member Is Offline
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For what it is worth, the cover letter that came with my new RP says
"Immigration document renewals must be made within thirty calendar days prior to its expiration."
Si estás buscando la person que cambiará su vida, échale una mirada en el espejo.
Fish logo from www.usafishing.com, used w/permission.
But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have..... |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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If you wait till it expires, you are toast. You have to apply no sooner than 30 days prior to expiration.
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retired and Loving it
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I too am concerned with possible "unintended consequences" of the RP. What with all the uncertaities, we're considering going back to the bi-annual
"Tourist Visa". Simple, cheap and easy.
Does anyone know for sure if property ownership (FTD) requires and RP or RT? When we got our FTD we were never asked for our FM3. Do all those
time-share and condo owners in Cabo have FM3's?
(FTD = Fideicomiso Traslativo de Dominio)
| Quote: | Originally posted by chuckie
There is always LOTs of discussion re: Getting the RP.....But little in the way of defining what our responsibilities are AFTER getting one. We came
close here a couple of times, but I am not clear yet on Auto imports and taxes. The downsides may be significant, and the paperwork worse....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ncampion
Does anyone know for sure if property ownership (FTD) requires and RP or RT? |
If you or your property get jambed up in litigation, you will have to have proper status to defend yourself in court and they know a tourist when they
see one. Obviously, property owners living here aren't tourists and that's how the courts will see it, and they will, if you're lucky, insist you
normalize your status before your case goes on. I've seen this happen.
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LaTijereta
Super Nomad
Posts: 1192
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ncampion
I too am concerned with possible "unintended consequences" ...
Does anyone know for sure if property ownership (FTD) requires and RP or RT?
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Loreto INM office has been great to work with in getting the RP card (process time was just over 5 weeks back in April)..That being said.. I was able
to use my "Fido" on my casa to secure the card with only one year on my old FM2..
Another plus for the RP card maybe the capital gain exemption if you have lived in your property for over five years, as "permanent residence".. (see
your Notario)
As INM gets this sorted out, they will have more time to go out check your immigration status around town.. This was done back in 2001 here in
Loreto..as they went door to door looking for persons living here on FMMs.. That's when we all went out and got our FM-3s
Democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin (1759)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LaTijereta
As INM gets this sorted out, they will have more time to go out check your immigration status around town.. This was done back in 2001 here in
Loreto..as they went door to door looking for persons living here on FMMs.. That's when we all went out and got our FM-3s |
WOW.....This is the first time I've ever heard of this drastic procedure. It would really be a mess if the US decided to use these police- state
methods. I always figured that's why Mexico never did; so as not to antagonize a tit-for-tat response NOB.
The Ensenada INM office has in the past threatened similar intentions, but nothing was done. They only huffed and puffed this nonsense to appease the
local public when there was immigration turmoil going on in the states and people here were screaming for an official pay back response.
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retired and Loving it
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LaTijereta
| Quote: | Originally posted by ncampion
I too am concerned with possible "unintended consequences" ...
Does anyone know for sure if property ownership (FTD) requires and RP or RT?
|
Loreto INM office has been great to work with in getting the RP card (process time was just over 5 weeks back in April)..That being said.. I was able
to use my "Fido" on my casa to secure the card with only one year on my old FM2..
Another plus for the RP card maybe the capital gain exemption if you have lived in your property for over five years, as "permanent residence".. (see
your Notario)
As INM gets this sorted out, they will have more time to go out check your immigration status around town.. This was done back in 2001 here in
Loreto..as they went door to door looking for persons living here on FMMs.. That's when we all went out and got our FM-3s |
That strategy didn't work for us (showing the Fido) with Loreto INM. They still told us we needed two more years on our current FM3 before we get RP.
So now we have RT and are not unhappy. Still not sure of the property ownership requirement for RP or RT vs FMM. Also have not seen the exemption
from capital gains officially quoted. So many "ifs"
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