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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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With regard to having an RP status and "therefore' not being able to drive a US plated car in Baja, all documentation always asserts that such
prohibitions relate only to "NON-PROHIBITED" Mexican territory. By deduction, since all of Baja is "PROHIBITED" Mexican territory, then it would
follow that there would be no requirement for those of us with RP status to either nationalize our vehicles nor would we be disallowed from driving
our US plated vehicles in the Baja.
The only problem is that whenever on reads the pertinent literature on this matter, the rules are always prefaced with a statement indicating that the
rules do not apply to prohibited territory. That kind of writing is not as definitive as specific indications with specific language in the text of
the rules themselves that indicates inapplicability of the rules, point by point.
Let's face it, given the inconsistent application of law by Mexican authority on a wide variety of issues, the inconsistent policies practiced by
various government offices in the same agency, and the apparent lack of clarity on many things in general, it's hard to have confidence in any
interpretation of the rules.
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laventana
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Registered: 8-24-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
With regard to having an RP status and "therefore' not being able to drive a US plated car in Baja, all documentation always asserts that such
prohibitions relate only to "NON-PROHIBITED" Mexican territory. By deduction, since all of Baja is "PROHIBITED" Mexican territory, then it would
follow that there would be no requirement for those of us with RP status to either nationalize our vehicles nor would we be disallowed from driving
our US plated vehicles in the Baja.
The only problem is that whenever on reads the pertinent literature on this matter, the rules are always prefaced with a statement indicating that the
rules do not apply to prohibited territory. That kind of writing is not as definitive as specific indications with specific language in the text of
the rules themselves that indicates inapplicability of the rules, point by point.
Let's face it, given the inconsistent application of law by Mexican authority on a wide variety of issues, the inconsistent policies practiced by
various government offices in the same agency, and the apparent lack of clarity on many things in general, it's hard to have confidence in any
interpretation of the rules. |
well even before a FM2 was not allowed to have a US plated vehicle here in
baja sur. Had a friend that was a FM2 about 10 years ago who told me never to get a FM2 because every once in a while he would get pulled over and
have issue with the police. Though he never had a car or motorcycle confiscated, it was threatened many times. So he always recommended to me
not to move to FM2 status. I never did but more for the tax issues that he also warned me about.
So with a major on-slot of people getting the permanent residency they may see a money making opportunity become the potential concern.
What would be nice to hear is what they use to do with FM2s on the mainland, were they also told as people are now on the mainland that they can not
have us plated vehicles like the new permanent resident people are being told now.
My friend was not allowed to take the ferry with any of his US plated vehicles, just like now several permanent resident people were stopped at the
ferry in LaPaz. second potential critical area is insurance liability, if you are operating a vehichcle illegally by the laws what happens with the
new upper liability limits, will the insurance company deny benifits? We know in the USA they do this, I have a friend who worked as a lawyer
defending the people deniedn the USA, he was very busy.
[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]
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chuckie
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Gets complicated doesnt it? From discussions here in Mulege (my opinion) it seems as if the RP has become a sort of status thing. Lots of folks
getting them that really arent permanent residents. Snowbirds, who may or may not have ownership of property....
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laventana
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forgot to add the insurance issue if you are technically not abiding by the written law. Who wants to be the test case with the new insurance
liability limits when the insurance company denies the claim because you were not driving a legal vehicle.
who thinks they can win a court case against a insurance company here in Mexico?
They do this all the time in the USA, have a friend that worked in a law firm that was defending people whos insurance companies were denying them
benefits in the USA.
My first in-expensive lesson here in Mexico was with a insurance policy I bought from Vagabondos. I was in a minor fender bender about 6 weeks
after I bought the policy. would have been 50 bucks, but I was then told my insurance company here in Mexico was bankrupt. thus ended up having to
pay several hundred dollars.
I was upset with Vagabondos, they said they could not be held responsibly which in general I agree they are just a broker. But they just sold me
the policy, these issues had to be showing their ugly signs by then you do not go bankrupt in a day. And they never notified me. They did pay a
price, at the time my office was right across the street from them in rio vista and I felt bad for the employees (knew it was not their
responsibility) as I would walk there every week asking to see the owner, who would never talk with me(he was never there) even talk to me face to
face. My office was there for several years. Now a days with everyone on the internet we would hear about a problem with the actual insurer much
faster. Back at that time 14 years ago many were not computer literate still.
[Edited on 6-25-2013 by laventana]
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CortezBlue
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Location: Fenix/San Phelipe
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Not that it means anything,,,,,, but, when we picked up our Permanent Resident cards I asked the agent about having to have our autos tagged with
Mexican plates and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. He said our only future requirements are.
1. If we move within San Felipe we need to update our address with Immigration
2. If we were to move to another town in Mexico, we needed to go to the new local Immigration office and update our information.
I think the only time having Mexico plates would make a difference is if you drove a brand new high dollar truck, then you may have a trouble and
chances are you would have your truck confiscated never to be seen again.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
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laventana,
You make some absolutely solid comments...and your comments all are dependent on whether or not, legally, the prohibitions for driving US plated cars
while having either an FM2 status or a Residente Permanente status apply to "Prohibited Mexican Territory" (i.e., the Baja) or not. That is the
issue. And, as I mentioned above, the documentation/literature that I have read on the prohibitions have been all prefaced by stating that such
prohibitions pertain to non-prohibited territory only.
In my view, you are absolutely right that IF the prohibitions DO IN FACT LEGALLY APPLY to prohibited territory in Baja, then whether or not it is
enforced by the municipal police or even federales in Baja is irrelevant in that vehicle insurance policies ostensibly covering such a US plated
vehicle will be considered null by the Mexican insuring company upon a claim. To me, THAT is a controlling factor. I certainly do not want to drive
a vehicle that has unenforceable coverage. That's just not acceptable.
But, again, it all depends on whether or not the prohibitions of driving a US plated vehicle in the Baja by an American with Residente Permanente
status apply to Prohibited Mexican Territory (i.e., the Baja). What is the "apparent" practice or enforcement or what has been recently observed in
some instances here in Baja by third parties in this short term could be only of limited significance in the long run.
It makes sense to me that those RPs who use the ferry to go to mainland Mexico from the Baja with their US plated cars would run into problems as the
prohibitions against RPs/FM2s driving US plated vehicles is not permitted in the NON-PROHIBITED Mexican territory of mainland Mexico.
Certainly, whether or not the abovementioned prohibitions are in fact limited to mainland Mexico and therefore to non-prohibited Mexican territory
only will be the absolute controlling factor as to the enforceability of coverage of vehicle insurance on US plated cars in the Baja driven by owners
that have RP status.
Again, the question is: Do the vehicle prohibitions that accompany RP status apply in Prohibited Baja territory or just to the non-prohibited
territory of mainland Mexico?
The Free Zone, also known as the Liberated Zone, or Perimeter Zone or Free Trade Zone is a customs designation only for that
area located along the Mexican international land borders? This area, for customs purposes, is not considered part of Mexico, in that items brought
from other countries into this zone are not considered imported into Mexico.
[Edited on 6-26-2013 by MitchMan]
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laventana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
laventana,
You make some absolutely solid comments...and your comments all are dependent on whether or not, legally, the prohibitions for driving US plated cars
while having either an FM2 status or a Residente Permanente status apply to "Prohibited Mexican Territory" (i.e., the Baja) or not. That is the
issue. And, as I mentioned above, the documentation/literature that I have read on the prohibitions have been all prefaced by stating that such
prohibitions pertain to non-prohibited territory only.
.........
Again, the question is: Do the vehicle prohibitions that accompany RP status apply in Prohibited Baja territory or just to the non-prohibited
territory of mainland Mexico?
The Free Zone, also known as the Liberated Zone, or Perimeter Zone or Free Trade Zone is a customs designation only for that
area located along the Mexican international land borders? This area, for customs purposes, is not considered part of Mexico, in that items brought
from other countries into this zone are not considered imported into Mexico.
[Edited on 6-26-2013 by MitchMan] |
obviously I see your point. But as we know a mexican driving a US plated car in the free trade zone will lose the car. I know this as a fact
because one of my real good friends (Mexican) was picking up his uncle a Mexican lawyer in LaPaz at the airport and they were pulled over leaving the
airport, and lost the car on the spot.
And the point here is once you become a resident you agree to abide by all laws. And on the mainland they have confiscated from what I have read at
least two vehicles from gringos with the new permanent resident status.
I have read they have backed off this a bit. But it does mean it is the law.
so the next thing with the new liability of being in some states USD$300,000.00 per person. So if you do get in an expensive accident the first
thing a insurance company in the USA does is find out how to not pay if there was anything that was not legal. Thus my point do you think you can
win in court against a Mexican insurance company? How much will that war cost? And second do you want to be the test case?
So for from what I have read about $500.00 to $1,000.00 why not nationalize the vehicle, you are saving that alone by not paying the fees every year.
[Edited on 6-27-2013 by laventana]
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
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I appreciate your response, laventana. I don't disagree with much that you have stated. I think that this issue will fall out in the way you have
described.
While there was a presentation by the aduana recently that stated in a Power Point presentation that if you are an inmigrado or an RP, you must
nationalize your vehicles, that was their unofficial interpretation of things at this point, but not the official codified statutory response because
no such legal rulings have been promulgated officially as yet by the Aduana.
I do believe that sooner rather than later, there will be an official legal position taken, but, it hasn't been taken just yet. Also, I think the
likelihood of things falling out the way you say are quite high.
The legal issue is whether or not in the final legal codified determination, will there be either a statutory stipulated temporary period to allow for
compliance, or will there be complete and permanent relief from having an RP nationalize their US plated vehicle in ONLY THE FREE ZONE (i.e., the
Baja), given that FM2 holders have been relieved of such a requirement in the Free Zone of Baja and in keeping with NAFTA's intent behind creating a
Free Zone in the first place.
Those confiscations that you mention happened in the Mainland but so far are not totally persistent actions across the board in the mainland or in the
Baja thus far. Also, it is claimed that the Mazatlan police that did the confiscating were looking for vehicles driven by RPs with "expired TIPs",
and, as you know, TIPs are not required in the Free Zone (i.e., the Baja). For those vehicles with current TIPs, well, they might have been OK.
However, in the Free Zone, US pated vehicles are required to have current US plates and current US state registration while not requiring a TIP.
So, was that vehicle that was confiscated in La Paz, did they have current US plates/registration?
BTW, how is it that a Mexican got his car confiscated in La Paz? Are you saying a Mexican citizen owned a US plated vehicle? Also, what kind of
police confiscated his car? Federales or local police? That's important because there has been frequent federale check points on the Carretera Norte
just under the Airport overpass in the last 9 months.
I think that things will go exactly as you have described in the end...unfortunately for me.
[Edited on 6-27-2013 by MitchMan]
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bajalinda
Senior Nomad
Posts: 552
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Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
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I picked up my RP card yesterday at La Paz INM. It took 4 and a half weeks from submitting request to picking up the card. If I lived closer to La
Paz and had been able to get to the office more frequently, I could have had it in about 3 and a half weeks. The whole process went very smoothly and
the La Paz office seems to have the procedure figured out - at least in my case they did.
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Howard
Super Nomad
Posts: 2353
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Location: Loreto/Manhattan Beach/Kona
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Mood: I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done.
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“Free at last, Free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last.”
Received my Residente Permnente card today! Woot woot!
After being told numerous times by the local immigration that I did not qualify, I got a lawyer involved and low and behold, he got it done. Easy
peasey, nice and easy.
The people at Immigration were very nice with no attitudes even after they originally said no and I would have to wait 4 more years.
We don't stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing
George Bernard Shaw
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schwlind
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My question is if you are a US or Canadian citizen who has received RP status here in MX... How do the cops know what your status is?
Over the 20+ years of spending time in Baja, I've never been asked to "see your papers".
Linda
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by schwlind
My question is if you are a US or Canadian citizen who has received RP status here in MX... How do the cops know what your status is?
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Who cares what they know? If it ever becomes an issue, tell them, but like you said, it hasn't been an issue yet and probably never will be.
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Marinero
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Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure?
Si estás buscando la person que cambiará su vida, échale una mirada en el espejo.
Fish logo from www.usafishing.com, used w/permission.
But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have..... |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marinero
Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure? |
Just go. Quit acting like a victim.
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chuckie
Elite Nomad
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I think like with most of the rest of it, no one will have an answer to the question about leaving and reentering Mexico with an RP. I have seen
language that says you maybe possibly might be have to fill out a form each time you do so. Who knows? We wont find out what the consequences of
having an RP are until the Govt begins enforcing the rules if they ever do.....
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rhintransit
Super Nomad
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Loreto INM told me I'd need to get an FMM every time I entered/exited, to go with my RP.
as with most everything else they've told me, I take that with a HUGE grain of salt. so, unless I fly and am forced to get one, I won't.
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rhintransit
Loreto INM told me I'd need to get an FMM every time I entered/exited, to go with my RP.
as with most everything else they've told me, I take that with a HUGE grain of salt. so, unless I fly and am forced to get one, I won't.
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That's correct, exactly the same as it was with FM-2 and FM-3.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Lee
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Marinero
Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure? |
Just go. Quit acting like a victim. |
Easy Dennis. We're all just looking for answers. There simply is no one answer regardless of what rolls down from the top.
It's best to make assumptions for yourself and less involvement with INM, the better. Like, I wonder if I need an entry/exit visa for my R/P?
Nah.
Just decide it's not necessary and move on. In the end, who cares?
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Marinero
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Location: Los Barriles, BCS
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| Quote: | | Quote: | | Now that I have my RP card what is required, technically, to exit and re-enter the country? Anybody know for sure? |
Just go. Quit acting like a victim. |
Please notice I said "technically". A request for information hardly makes one a victim. In fact, it often prevents it.
Si estás buscando la person que cambiará su vida, échale una mirada en el espejo.
Fish logo from www.usafishing.com, used w/permission.
But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have..... |
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bajadave1
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yesterday............
We just flew in to SJD yesterday. Went thru resident: rather than tourist/foreigner. It actually worked. Amazing!!!!!!!!!
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